SWFC Supporters' Trust Reports on Ticketing and Refunds

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Mcguigan said:

Nope and it isn’t.

 

So the sponsorship is listed separately under commercial activities then? If it isn't difficult to equate who, where and how much our sponsorship comes from, perhaps you could provide a breakdown of the £7.1M received from commercial activities in the 2018 accounts. 

 

Perhaps you could tell me what exactly is included in the figure for 'match receipts and associated turnover'.  

[room0035]

1 hour ago, Mcguigan said:

And those empty seats that we then charge £10 for, well for the first game at least. The second game it’s down to 10k, then 5k, then before you know it were back to 22-25k regulars.

 

Its unsustainable because, much as it pains a lot of you to accept, we haven’t got the fan numbers to make it work.

The point I was making is 15000 seats at a tenner for the season is less than we waste on Westwood and Rhodes the problem is too many players not the lack of fans.

 

When I was younger we offer the seats for free to school kids and they spent in the stadium or the adults with them did.

 

But the club is so short sighted, three kids are fans of the future and money into the coffers from the spend in the staduim.

 

Instead charge more from the diehards and see the numbers get less.

 

We are not building a club we are slowly killing it.

 

Covid has accelerated what DC started 5 years ago a few more years of DC and we will be down to 13-15,000 every game.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, sherlyegg said:

 

If you were around in the 70's it was reletively free to get in, yet crowds fell through the floor.

 

It's all about the football imho.

 

It is mainly I agree.

 

And the quality and results of the football has dropped off dramatically due to the constraints in place as a result of the financial mismanagement. 

[Guest Hornsby]

Really fantastic work by the Trust. Many thanks.

 

Wonder what affect is on secondary sales such as merchandise and catering with such high ticket prices.

 

Also, Hillsborough is often like a morgue with just 60% of capacity sold and that also had an effect on pitch, so revenue etc.

 

About long -term, Atalanta offer under 5s free replica shirts to build fan base and local loyalty.

 

Other related problem is we have no profits from trading players like many other clubs. Relying on ticket and TV revenue to fund all.

 

And don't Derby do Ryanair model with seat prices related to scarcity?

 

 

[Binky Griptite]

3 minutes ago, Mcguigan said:

The facts are out there if you can be bothered to look. Google is a marvellous thing.

 

Excellent, so you'd agree if you were trying to present information to the club you'd google to find the evidence and present that as part of your report?

 

38 minutes ago, SWFC Trust said:

...For that reason, we've used best guess estimates for matchday and associated revenue from reputable alternative sources (please see our report for references), and an accountant has made projections accordingly for 18/19 and 19/20 where the accounts are not currently available. 

 

[SWFC Trust]

9 minutes ago, Mcguigan said:

In 14/15 SWFC had a revenue of £15m, in 17/18 (our last published accounts) we had a revenue of £26.2m

 

In 14/15 BCFC excluding parachute payments but allowing them the EFL and media rights as us for accuracy, had a revenue of £19.5, in 17/18 they had a revenue of £19.1m. 
 

So whilst we had a 74% increase in turnover, they effectively stayed the same.

Ok, I'm not going to pick those figures apart. The Birmingham report is specifically about how their ticketing, marketing and pricing strategy has brought about an increase in attendance well above the average increase in the championship in the period and has brought increased matchday revenue. It doesn't discuss overall turnover. We're not suggesting it as a magic bullet for the Owls -. rather that there might be some strategies Wednesday could use to help achieve similar outcomes. Good for the club, good for the fans.

[SallyCinnamon]

Not a chance can we justify having the highest season ticket prices in the league. It’s outrageous and always has been. 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Inspector Lestrade said:

 

So what do you recommend he does going forward?  Can we really have lower prices and success?

 

 

Most clubs have lower prices than us as has been pointed out and this is likely to be the 4th season in a row where we find ourselves more likely to trouble the bottom 3 come the end of the season than the top 6. 

 

Many seem to manage to do better than us on less and the fact we are chasing huge financial losses every year is not the fault of the fans.  

[sherlyegg]

4 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

And the quality and results of the football has dropped off dramatically due to the constraints in place as a result of the financial mismanagement. 

Yep, agree with every word.

But if we were in the exact same position but with cash in bank, no ffp issues.

The crowds would be the same or possibly less....and similar grumblings but for opposite reasons.

[Guest Mcguigan]

4 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

So the sponsorship is listed separately under commercial activities then? If it isn't difficult to equate who, where and how much our sponsorship comes from, perhaps you could provide a breakdown of the £7.1M received from commercial activities in the 2018 accounts. 

 

Perhaps you could tell me what exactly is included in the figure for 'match receipts and associated turnover'.  

The accounts don’t breakdown the commercial income, so how would I know?

 

Whats easy to explain is 

Matchday = £10m

EFL and broadcasting £8m (based on other Championship clubs accounts for the same period)

 

Commercial = £7.1m. Retail, sponsorship, catering, advertising etc....

[room0035]

1 minute ago, SallyCinnamon said:

Not a chance can we justify having the highest season ticket prices in the league. It’s outrageous and always has been. 

We are a working class northern city in a league with 5 or 6 London teams and as many former premier league teams for prices we should be mid table not too 6.

 

Because the football, merchandise, match day experience, match day facilities etc have been bottom 6 for too long. 

 

There is nothing preventing DC from improving the stadium or the facilities yet he does not but still expects us to pay more and more for less and less.

[Binky Griptite]

2 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Most clubs have lower prices than us as has been pointed out and this is likely to be the 4th season in a row where we find ourselves more likely to trouble the bottom 3 come the end of the season than the top 6. 

 

Many seem to manage to do better than us on less and the fact we are chasing huge financial losses every year is not the fault of the fans.  

 

Surely this year (covid aside) will look better in the accounts, at least from a wage bill perspective? Got rid of some high earners and we can't be chucking as much at the current crop... can we? I think the acid test will be what the pricing is like when we come out the other side... would fans support maintaining ticket prices for the coming season as a one-off injection of revenue with promise of a reduction in ticket prices for 2022/23 commensurate with a lower wage bill?

[room0035]

Just now, Mcguigan said:

The accounts don’t breakdown the commercial income, so how would I know?

 

Whats easy to explain is 

Matchday = £10m

EFL and broadcasting £8m (based on other Championship clubs accounts for the same period)

 

Commercial = £7.1m. Retail, sponsorship, catering, advertising etc....

Wages £40m+ the problem as I have said is squad management not fans in the stand.

[Guest Mcguigan]

9 minutes ago, Binky Griptite said:

 

Excellent, so you'd agree if you were trying to present information to the club you'd google to find the evidence and present that as part of your report?

 

 

Of course.

 

The application of knowledge trumps a best guess anytime.

[Guest Mcguigan]

Just now, room0035 said:

Wages £40m+ the problem as I have said is squad management not fans in the stand.

Agreed, posted the same earlier.

[room0035]

Just now, room0035 said:

Wages £40m+ the problem as I have said is squad management not fans in the stand.

It's like saying the bucket has a dodge handle while forgetting the massive hole in the bottom.

 

We have too many players who never play, until they are gone nothing will change.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Mcguigan said:

The accounts don’t breakdown the commercial income, so how would I know?

 

Whats easy to explain is 

Matchday = £10m

EFL and broadcasting £8m (based on other Championship clubs accounts for the same period)

 

Commercial = £7.1m. Retail, sponsorship, catering, advertising etc....

 

Because you said it wasn't difficult! 

If you don't know the details of what is included in these categories then it is difficult to be precise! 

[Guest Mcguigan]

14 minutes ago, SWFC Trust said:

Ok, I'm not going to pick those figures apart. The Birmingham report is specifically about how their ticketing, marketing and pricing strategy has brought about an increase in attendance well above the average increase in the championship in the period and has brought increased matchday revenue. It doesn't discuss overall turnover. We're not suggesting it as a magic bullet for the Owls -. rather that there might be some strategies Wednesday could use to help achieve similar outcomes. Good for the club, good for the fans.

Did you miss our increase in attendances from 21,326 in 13/14 to 27,129 in 16/17?

[Guest Mcguigan]

Just now, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Because you said it wasn't difficult! 

If you don't know the details of what is included in these categories then it is difficult to be precise! 

No it’s not, I’ve just told you.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Mcguigan said:

Agreed, posted the same earlier.

 

So you agree it is difficult to justify having the most expensive tickets in the country when the team is continually performing outside the top 12 and investment is decreasing.

 

Which is I think the main point of this.