GARRY MONK - All posts about Garry Monk in here please

[Guest LondonOwl313]

24 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

 

Who are you kidding? According to footystats.org, Hutchinson was booked 10 times in those 24 appearances this season. 

 

Since 2012/3, he has appeared in 144 games, receiving 53 yellow cards and 3 red.

Weren’t those reds all within his first season or two here? I seem to remember him getting two in quick succession under Gray and then the reputation that he’s always suspended kind of stuck. I can’t remember him being sent off in the whole time since Carlos arrived.

 

Thats quite a lot of yellows but the important question is how many games has he been suspended from as a result. I don’t think that’s many either.

 

So he pushes the limits on the cards front but generally stayed the right side of the line and didn’t negatively impact the team

[DJMortimer]

I don't get this stuff about manager's being sacked. So what? It happens all the time. And if the 'experts' in the stands got their way would do so even more often than it already does. Apart from Ron Atkinson and Stuart Gray you'd probably have to go back to the 1980s for the last Wednesday boss serving more than half a season who didn't face lengthy spells of criticism from supporters. 

 

How many times has Mourinho had the elbow for instance? What does that 'prove' about his experience, ability or achievements?

[DJMortimer]

3 minutes ago, LondonOwl313 said:

Weren’t those reds all within his first season or two here? I seem to remember him getting two in quick succession under Gray and then the reputation that he’s always suspended kind of stuck. 

 

One in 2014/5 and the other two in 2016/7.

[dorian gray]

Just now, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Release Westwood and pay up his remaining one year or continue to keep paying him for doing nothing for another year? Great work, good job our other keepers don't concede 3 or more regularly.......

 

Once again your defence of Monk seemingly comes down to having 1 player available. Tactical mastermind! 

 the westwood issue has come up under jos and now monk, whatever is the reason i fully imagine it has dc's full backing, if not carrying out his instructions.

i imagine the choice of only one worthy forward was not his choosing, they are an assembly of failures of previous managers.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, dorian gray said:

mccarthy may not suit some in fan base, they want him sacking before he arrived.

cook on the other hand is in footballing terms quite the opposite, i'm surprised you chose such two different managers, his win ratio is very healthy, and although i see the local press have called him out for being over cautious away from home, IF we dry up there we've done.

his possession based football if it is to succeed generally needs expensive football players, or time to build, i wonder if dc wants a quicker. more direct style of attacking the opposition?

 

I chose managers who are realistic to get and have good records. Fans won't care about the style if it is effective. Monk was reasonably well received until his 1-dimensional stuff got found out and he has since had no answer.

 

Not sure where you get the impression Cook needs time or money to succeed, he had pretty much instant success at Wigan, got them promoted as Champions, kept them up last season on a fraction of our budget and has them above us this season.

[jonnyowl]

1 minute ago, dorian gray said:

why? look at it from my point of view, i'm expected to take you seriously.

your carlos had mone money to spend than any wednesday manager since premier days, and won NOTHING.

your version of 'best football' obviously isn't winning (often enough) football as we didn't go up.

'scintillating stuff' is that what our humiliating freeze at wembley was?, or our total no show at home to the zero scoring uddersfield the following year?

there is obviously a reason for westwood's exclusion, if it's not to see if either were good enough, it must be that they are both better than him now, or it has been decided that he is some form of negative aspect? can you think of any other option?

looks like hutch's record isn't as clean as you state, thanks to DJMortimer's timely input?

mistake on your part? or a case of willing to say absolutely anything in an attempt to prove a point?

we were 3rd. at Christmas as we had fletcher carrying the line, we fell away because we lost him for a very lengthy spell.

you state we shouldn't trust monk as he's been sacked 4 times, but how many times did your hero get peddled? he's had more clubs than tiger woods.

 

 

I'm speechless! You Monk's dad or something?

 

You slag Carlos off who gave us our best two finishes since premier league or am I wrong about that? Yet defend a manger that has 17 points from 66, all the while we concede goals for fun!

 

I can't take you seriously!

 

As for the football, you've picked out 2 matches?

 

Shall I pick out some matches, in the last 6 months under Monk, how abut conceding 5 against Blackburn, 5 against Brentford, 5 against Fulham, 3 against Preston, 3 against Reading, 3 against Birmingham! 

 

He chucked Hutch and Westwood out of the squad and results nose dived, Jos did the same and look what happened to him! Bullen then Bruce didn't have a problem with them and results improved!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dorian gray]

2 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

I chose managers who are realistic to get and have good records. Fans won't care about the style if it is effective. Monk was reasonably well received until his 1-dimensional stuff got found out and he has since had no answer.

 

Not sure where you get the impression Cook needs time or money to succeed, he had pretty much instant success at Wigan, got them promoted as Champions, kept them up last season on a fraction of our budget and has them above us this season.

i'm sorry to inform you certain sheffield wednesday fans will, they be lying in wait for a defeat to stab him in the back, in mccarthy's case he wouldn't have to wait that long.

until this club completely ignores this, that, or the other opinion of it's 'i know the best' fanbase it'll tow it's gonads off getting promoted, it's carrying a right sized anchor. 

[DJMortimer]

2 minutes ago, jonnyowl said:

You slag Carlos off who gave us our best two finishes since premier league or am I wrong about that?

 

Carvalhal's legacy simply cannot be viewed with one eye like that. Sure, he came close to the ultimate prize a couple of times and in that first season we played some very good football, but we are still paying the price for what happened when it ran out of steam in terms of injuries, finance, squad composition, and depending on who you believe, professionalism.

[jonnyowl]

1 minute ago, DJMortimer said:

 

Carvalhal's legacy simply cannot be viewed with one eye like that. Sure, he came close to the ultimate prize a couple of times and in that first season we played some very good football, but we are still paying the price for what happened when it ran out of steam in terms of injuries, finance, squad composition, and depending on who you believe, professionalism.

 

I agree with this, poor recruitment since the playoff final has caused most of our problems.

 

but Dorian Gray is defending Monk whilst saying Carlos failed. Well if Carlos failed what does that make Monk!

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

I don't get this stuff about manager's being sacked. So what? It happens all the time. And if the 'experts' in the stands got their way would do so even more often than it already does. Apart from Ron Atkinson and Stuart Gray you'd probably have to go back to the 1980s for the last Wednesday boss serving more than half a season who didn't face lengthy spells of criticism from supporters. 

 

How many times has Mourinho had the elbow for instance? What does that 'prove' about his experience, ability or achievements?

 

All managers get the sack at some stage you are right but this is somewhat deflecting away from the actual issue in terms of our manager right now.

 

How far back do you have to go for a Wednesday manager who has been so unable to find a formula at home that we have not scored a first half goal this year at Hillsborough.

A record that had some people blaming the fans - post lockdown football has at least put that one to bed. Yes the away record has been better but not much better this year.

 

How many managers survive a record of 4 wins and 13 defeats from 22 games, conceding an average of 2 goals per game in this period - significantly worse than every club but 1 in the division for half a season?

 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, dorian gray said:

i'm sorry to inform you certain sheffield wednesday fans will, they be lying in wait for a defeat to stab him in the back, in mccarthy's case he wouldn't have to wait that long.

until this club completely ignores this, that, or the other opinion of it's 'i know the best' fanbase it'll tow it's gonads off getting promoted, it's carrying a right sized anchor. 

 

You think our fan base is different to most others in terms of managers getting stick?

 

You seem to be completely ignoring Garry Monk's wretched record in defending him to the hilt but there you go.

[DJMortimer]

1 minute ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

All managers get the sack at some stage you are right but this is somewhat deflecting away from the actual issue in terms of our manager right now.

 

How far back do you have to go for a Wednesday manager who has been so unable to find a formula at home that we have not scored a first half goal this year at Hillsborough.

A record that had some people blaming the fans - post lockdown football has at least put that one to bed. Yes the away record has been better but not much better this year.

 

How many managers survive a record of 4 wins and 13 defeats from 22 games, conceding an average of 2 goals per game in this period - significantly worse than every club but 1 in the division for half a season?

 

 

Everyone knows what the statistics are and there's no getting away from how dismal they are. I was only answering the repeated posts about being sacked as if that 'proved' anything in isolation.

[dorian gray]

no i'm not monks dad, has he been tomming your bird?

carlos WON NOTHING with our entire budget spent, and Christ only knows where or when the next one is coming from?

do you for one instant think i'm taking you seriously? you've openly lied to attempt to prove a point that you'd lost on, namely hutch's disciplinary record.

if you knew a great deal about football, you'd know that a defence without an out ball will struggle, and concede over time.

as upcoming opposition get to know wednesday offer nothing up front as fletcher is out they can throw more men into attack without fear of rhodes and nuhiu giving them a mauling over the 90 mins.

with both jos and now monk excluding the pair, DO YOU THINK THERE'S A POSSIBILITY THAT DC HAS HAD A SAY IN IT ALL?

[dorian gray]

5 minutes ago, jonnyowl said:

 

I agree with this, poor recruitment since the playoff final has caused most of our problems.

 

but Dorian Gray is defending Monk whilst saying Carlos failed. Well if Carlos failed what does that make Monk!

STILL HERE. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, dorian gray said:

no i'm not monks dad, has he been tomming your bird?

carlos WON NOTHING with our entire budget spent, and Christ only knows where or when the next one is coming from?

do you for one instant think i'm taking you seriously? you've openly lied to attempt to prove a point that you'd lost on, namely hutch's disciplinary record.

if you knew a great deal about football, you'd know that a defence without an out ball will struggle, and concede over time.

as upcoming opposition get to know wednesday offer nothing up front as fletcher is out they can throw more men into attack without fear of rhodes and nuhiu giving them a mauling over the 90 mins.

with both jos and now monk excluding the pair, DO YOU THINK THERE'S A POSSIBILITY THAT DC HAS HAD A SAY IN IT ALL?

 

You keep going on about budget. We were outside the top 6 for budget in all of Carlos' 2 and a half seasons yet finished 6th and 4th. 

[dorian gray]

6 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

All managers get the sack at some stage you are right but this is somewhat deflecting away from the actual issue in terms of our manager right now.

 

How far back do you have to go for a Wednesday manager who has been so unable to find a formula at home that we have not scored a first half goal this year at Hillsborough.

A record that had some people blaming the fans - post lockdown football has at least put that one to bed. Yes the away record has been better but not much better this year.

 

How many managers survive a record of 4 wins and 13 defeats from 22 games, conceding an average of 2 goals per game in this period - significantly worse than every club but 1 in the division for half a season?

 

aren't we equal top scorers away from home?

how many times do we have to point out, we had only one worthy forward, and he was long term injured?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, dorian gray said:

aren't we equal top scorers away from home?

how many times do we have to point out, we had only one worthy forward, and he was long term injured?

 

Yet Jos Luhukay had just as much success and rested Fletcher 3 weeks in every 4!

 

No matter how many times you say it, our squad minus Fletcher is not the 23rd worst in the division and if the manager cannot adapt to playing a different way through the loss of one striker and prevent his team from conceding two goals every game for half a season then he is not good enough. 

[Guest LondonOwl313]

18 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

 

Carvalhal's legacy simply cannot be viewed with one eye like that. Sure, he came close to the ultimate prize a couple of times and in that first season we played some very good football, but we are still paying the price for what happened when it ran out of steam in terms of injuries, finance, squad composition, and depending on who you believe, professionalism.

I think Carlos came here as a head coach rather than a manager, that’s certainly the mandate he’s had at all his other clubs given that’s the continental way. A head coach isn’t responsible for the finances only the training, tactics and team selections. If Chansiri is as hands on as some people say he was probably quite happy with that arrangement.

 

Recruitment was poor but I’m not sure that’s the head coach’s fault. Let’s be honest, he turns up in England in 2015 and recommends signing Bannan, FF, Hooper, Pudil, Hunt, Wallace etc? I’m pretty sure he’d probably never heard of some of those before he came here so I don’t think he was fully responsible for recruitment. If someone said to you you can have Jordan Rhodes, the top scorer in the division in the last 5 years, a head coach will say definitely given the finances are being sorted by someone else. A manager would look at the overall outlay and say this is too much risk for us and we don’t really need him. 
 

So I think the finances and even the fact that we signed a hodge podge of players rather than targeted recruitment lie squarely on DC.

 

Injuries have always been a problem at Wednesday, I can remember Sturrock or Laws mentioning it and people saying the training ground was to blame. I’m not saying Carlos was immune to criticism on that front and he did have a tendency to rush back the first XI players but not sure it’s all his fault.

 

Professionalism is a two sided thing too. To some he managed the different personalities and individual player requirements within the squad and generally got results. To others he gave players too much power, and Jos and Monk then tried a more authoritative approach, which didn’t get results. Depends how you see it, but personally I only care about the results and it doesn’t bother me if the players hardly train at all. I’d leave that to the players and manager to decide what’s appropriate then just judge the result of that personally 
 

 

Edited July 21, 2020 by LondonOwl313

[dorian gray]

1 minute ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

You keep going on about budget. We were outside the top 6 for budget in all of Carlos' 2 and a half seasons yet finished 6th and 4th. 

i'm on about our clubs budget not other clubs.

the most money a sheffield wednesday manager has has since premier league days, ALL GONE, and nothing won, well done carlos, thanks for the embarrassing no show at wembley, and Christ only knows what the uddersfield debacle can be labeled under.

but carry on with the b/s carlos, you still have some fooled here.

[dorian gray]

10 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

You think our fan base is different to most others in terms of managers getting stick?

 

You seem to be completely ignoring Garry Monk's wretched record in defending him to the hilt but there you go.

i don't believe he has had a fraction of the financial support your hero has had.