Monks Game Management

[SiJ]

Just now, Westfield Owl said:

 

The buck stops with the manager.  He’s got to sort this problem out, which so far he has failed to do.

 

If there’s nothing else Monk can do then what are we paying him for?

He's got us up to 4th. 

 

I'd suggest he's earning his money right now, but seemingly you think differently. 

[marcx666]

4 minutes ago, SiJ said:

He's got us up to 4th. 

 

I'd suggest he's earning his money right now, but seemingly you think differently. 

Oh give over, you know it's actually ok the have an opinion on things, or people?, and not every will agree? If you think he is doing a perfect job fair play mate. Me, I didn't want him in the first place, yet THAT is the only thing I can criticise, because we do throw an extraordinary amount of points away in the final few minutes of games. 

[Westfield Owl]

12 minutes ago, SiJ said:

He's got us up to 4th. 

 

I'd suggest he's earning his money right now, but seemingly you think differently. 

 

I would have taken 4th at this stage of the season.  Although realistically, automatic promotion is probably gone.  Even at this early stage it’s very hard to imagine Leeds or West Brom not being the top two.

 

I think we have a good squad so I’m not that surprised Monk has us in the playoff spots.

 

If we’re going to go the distance, we need to stop conceding goals late in the game.  It’s not rocket science to suggest the manager needs to take ownership of resolving that.

[Birley Owl 1867]

6 minutes ago, Westfield Owl said:

 

The buck stops with the manager.  He’s got to sort this problem out, which so far he has failed to do.

 

If there’s nothing else Monk can do then what are we paying him for?

But if he's tried everything and the players still are listening, then what does he do there?

 

End of the day, it's the players who play the game, not the manager, and it was those players who lost us the game. It rests on their shoulders more so than it does Monks, as does every late concession we've made this season.

[Westfield Owl]

13 minutes ago, Birley Owl 1867 said:

But if he's tried everything and the players still are listening, then what does he do there?

 

End of the day, it's the players who play the game, not the manager, and it was those players who lost us the game. It rests on their shoulders more so than it does Monks, as does every late concession we've made this season.

 

I can’t answer your first question.  I’m not a fan of hypothetical whataboutery.

 

I don’t disagree with your second paragraph.

[darra]

If as somebody on here has said Monk was shouting at the players to push up and not sit so deep but was being ignored. Surely, in that case, it's the captains or the senior players on the pitch to sort it out. Only so much a manager can do stood in the technical area.

Edited December 26, 2019 by darra

[Birley Owl 1867]

1 minute ago, Westfield Owl said:

 

I can’t answer your first question.  I’m not a fan of hypothetical whataboutery.

 

I don’t disagree with your second paragraph.

Its not whataboutery. It is likely the truth.

 

Read his post match comments.

[marcx666]

3 minutes ago, darra said:

If as somebody on here has said Monk was shooting at the players to push up and not sit so deep but was being ignored. Surely in that case it's the captains or the senior players on the pitch to sort it out. Only so much a manager can do stood in the technical area.

I agree, but if the players repeatedly ignore the managers instruction then its up to the manager to deal with it, for example dropping the players who don't listen, and if we are blaming all this on the players, who never did it under any other manager, then surely Monk should drop them. 

[SiJ]

9 minutes ago, marcx666 said:

Oh give over, you know it's actually ok the have an opinion on things, or people?, and not every will agree? If you think he is doing a perfect job fair play mate. Me, I didn't want him in the first place, yet THAT is the only thing I can criticise, because we do throw an extraordinary amount of points away in the final few minutes of games. 

I do have an opinion and my opinion is blaming Monk for the atrocious game management from the players is wrong. 

 

[Westfield Owl]

12 minutes ago, Birley Owl 1867 said:

Its not whataboutery. It is likely the truth.

 

Read his post match comments.

 

Yes it is.  You’ve asked a hypothetical question.

 

No one on this forum can verify what has been said between manager and players.

[marcx666]

4 minutes ago, SiJ said:

I do have an opinion and my opinion is blaming Monk for the atrocious game management from the players is wrong. 

 

LIke I said in the above post, if for some reason, the same players who haven't dropped this amount of points before, over the last four years, are suddenly dropping htme because they aren't listening to the managers instructions, isn't it the managers job to deal with that, for instance drop them? 

[SiJ]

2 minutes ago, marcx666 said:

LIke I said in the above post, if for some reason, the same players who haven't dropped this amount of points before, over the last four years, are suddenly dropping htme because they aren't listening to the managers instructions, isn't it the managers job to deal with that, for instance drop them? 

How many can you drop? 

 

We aren't blessed with fantastic options where you can change 6 or 7 of them. 

 

You are talking one or two changes tops and I doubt it will make that much difference. 

 

It is a mentality thing with this group of players. 

[Birley Owl 1867]

2 minutes ago, Westfield Owl said:

 

Yes it is.  You’ve asked a hypothetical question.

 

No one on this forum can verify what has been said between manager and players.

It's not hypothetical if it is the truth.

 

Hypothetical would be asking would that have happened with Westwood and Borner in the team.

 

You said in a roundabout way that we shouldn't pay Monk if he doesnt know what to do. He does know what to do and likely already has. That's not hypothetical. 

 

Fact of the matter, last 2 home games we were under the cosh last 5 and won out. That showes that Monk sorted it out albeit temporarily. Today we regressed. Not sure how that can be laid fully at Monk's shoulders.

[marcx666]

3 minutes ago, SiJ said:

How many can you drop? 

 

We aren't blessed with fantastic options where you can change 6 or 7 of them. 

 

You are talking one or two changes tops and I doubt it will make that much difference. 

 

It is a mentality thing with this group of players. 

That's why it makes me question Monk. They never threw away this many points under Carlos, Bullen, Jos, Bullen, Bruce, Bullen. Only MOnk.....

[Suzuki_San]

2 hours ago, gurujuan said:

Kinda emphasises the point, none of the three should be starting, but we don’t have anyone else

 

Well, hopefully Fletcher will be fit for Cardiff, then we have to play Winnall with him. At least those two are more mobile. 

[Birley Owl 1867]

3 minutes ago, marcx666 said:

That's why it makes me question Monk. They never threw away this many points under Carlos, Bullen, Jos, Bullen, Bruce, Bullen. Only MOnk.....

Under Jos we were never ahead enough to throw the games away

[darra]

10 minutes ago, marcx666 said:

I agree, but if the players repeatedly ignore the managers instruction then it's up to the manager to deal with it, for example dropping the players who don't listen, and if we are blaming all this on the players, who never did it under any other manager, then surely Monk should drop them. 

I agree and listening to Monk before the game when he said all places are up for grabs some might be losing their places on Sunday. Don't think he's too happy with Forestieri. When asked when he might be back he said it's a niggling injury but some players pain thresholds are lower than others. In other words time for Foresteri to man up

[Guest LondonOwl313]

7 minutes ago, marcx666 said:

That's why it makes me question Monk. They never threw away this many points under Carlos, Bullen, Jos, Bullen, Bruce, Bullen. Only MOnk.....

Only thing I can see that he does consistently differently are negative subs. Like he regularly subs the strikers around 75-80 mins if we’re winning.. then we offer no threat and are on the back foot, and then the defence seem unable to handle sustained pressure 

 

We also only have one good striker.. I get that Fletcher is older and he might be trying to save his legs.. but don’t often see Kane, Salah, Rashford etc going off early. 

[Birley Owl 1867]

Just now, LondonOwl313 said:

Only thing I can see that he does consistently differently are negative subs. Like he regularly subs the strikers around 75-80 mins if we’re winning.. then we offer no threat and are on the back foot, and then the defence seem unable to handle sustained pressure 

 

We also only have one good striker.. I get that Fletcher is older and he might be trying to save his legs.. but don’t often see Kane, Salah, Rashford etc going off early. 

Liverpool take Salah off all the time. Either him or Mane never finish games.

 

I understand the changes from Monk, making ourselves more solid defensively is a good plan. With our mentally weak defensive mentality though, it is probably not a good idea.

 

Today though he made those changes to attack not defend so his substitutions can't be blamed.

[Guest LondonOwl313]

4 minutes ago, Birley Owl 1867 said:

Liverpool take Salah off all the time. Either him or Mane never finish games.

 

I understand the changes from Monk, making ourselves more solid defensively is a good plan. With our mentally weak defensive mentality though, it is probably not a good idea.

 

Today though he made those changes to attack not defend so his substitutions can't be blamed.

Liverpool have 4 or 5 top quality strikers though and often win games by a wide margin. They never sub them off in tight games or important ones (which nearly all of ours are). We have one good striker for our level 

 

and today isn’t a good example as we played the full 90 mins in the same vein as we usually play the last 5 mins