Scottish Football Returns.

[Owl.1867]

On 06/08/2019 at 18:18, aussieowl87 said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49240757

 

Rangers blaming Kilmarnock for Rangers fan's invading Kilmarnock's pitch...

 

"Rightly or wrongly a gate was forced..."

 

The answers wrongly pal.

 

Absolutely no shame from them.

[edinburghowl]

Presumably Celtic will be after a left back now that Tierney is away?

 

Hearts are expecting to announce Damour today from Cardiff and hopefully Glenn Whelan too. 

 

Good result for Rangers last night which probably safely sees them through 

[Guest]

On 05/08/2019 at 22:50, edinburghowl said:

 

The 4 games in a season is down to the TV companies demanding 4 Old Firm games per season and the authorities pandering to the them and the two Glasgow teams. Some clubs want league reconstruction and most fan bases prefer and want a 16 or 18 team league setup.

 

As for sell outs only happening against Rangers and Celtic. Hearts had a period for nearly 18 months solid recently where we sold out the home allocation for every single league fixture. Edinburgh derbies are also always a sell out at Hibs ground. 

 

Was this during the period when your main stand was being built and out of commission?

 

Great start to the season for Hearts as they look to improve on a 6th placed finish, behind Kilmarnock and Hibernian where they had less points than the team that finished 7th.

[edinburghowl]

3 hours ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Was this during the period when your main stand was being built and out of commission?

 

Great start to the season for Hearts as they look to improve on a 6th placed finish, behind Kilmarnock and Hibernian where they had less points than the team that finished 7th.

 

No it was when all 4 stands were fully functional. We were playing in Murrayfield when the Main Stand was being built. 

 

As for the start, we are only one game in and we were a red card away in the 80th minute from 3 points at Pittodrie. Given your record against them recently you’ll appreciate that’s not an easy place to get a result 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, edinburghowl said:

 

No it was when all 4 stands were fully functional. We were playing in Murrayfield when the Main Stand was being built. 

 

As for the start, we are only one game in and we were a red card away in the 80th minute from 3 points at Pittodrie. Given your record against them recently you’ll appreciate that’s not an easy place to get a result 

 

Interesting, which 18 months did this cover?

 

Guess it shows the resolve needed when you go down to 10 men with 10 minutes to go in an away game on the opening day of the season. 

[edinburghowl]

1 hour ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Interesting, which 18 months did this cover?

 

Guess it shows the resolve needed when you go down to 10 men with 10 minutes to go in an away game on the opening day of the season. 

 

Was around 2016-17 I think.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, edinburghowl said:

 

Was around 2016-17 I think.

 

Fair enough, seems about right but given the attendances never got above 17K that season, selling 16K home tickets for league games in the top flight doesn't seem like a major achievement for a city the size of Edinburgh.

 

https://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/heart-of-midlothian/attendances/2016-2017

[Owl.1867]

11 hours ago, edinburghowl said:

Presumably Celtic will be after a left back now that Tierney is away?

 

Hearts are expecting to announce Damour today from Cardiff and hopefully Glenn Whelan too. 

 

Good result for Rangers last night which probably safely sees them through 

 

It was well known that Tierney would go so I cant see plans changing too much.

 

One thing Celtic have been good at in recent years, as much as others complain about them having more money, is being smart with that money. I have faith that the £25m will be used well to keep things ticking over, rather than any panic buying going on.

[edinburghowl]

50 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Fair enough, seems about right but given the attendances never got above 17K that season, selling 16K home tickets for league games in the top flight doesn't seem like a major achievement for a city the size of Edinburgh.

 

https://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/heart-of-midlothian/attendances/2016-2017

 

You can’t sell tickets if the seats aren’t there! The capacity of the stadium was just over 17,000 then. Last season (when our average attendance actually went down) if Hearts were in the Championship there would only be 5 clubs between Wednesday and Hearts in an attendance league table and we both have amongst the most expensive tickets and season tickets in our respective leagues.

 

Yes Hearts could and probably should sell more, we are in the capital city of Scotland, but there are bus loads of fans that head west to watch games, the product isn’t great (who wants to see Motherwell and St Johnstone 4 times a season?) and the away supports in the SPFL are far smaller.

 

If Hearts had a winning team on the pitch and a manager that had the backing of the entire fanbase I think we could sell out our ground again regularly and get close to a 20,000 average which again would be the limitation of our stadium. I know many people that aren’t attending now because of Levein, one chap a season ticket holder for 35 consecutive seasons didn’t renew this year.

 

Hearts have sold 25,000+ for European games at Murrayfield several times. The support is decent and regularly the 3rd best in Scotland.

 

31 minutes ago, Owl.1867 said:

 

It was well known that Tierney would go so I cant see plans changing too much.

 

One thing Celtic have been good at in recent years, as much as others complain about them having more money, is being smart with that money. I have faith that the £25m will be used well to keep things ticking over, rather than any panic buying going on.

 

I have no doubt that Celtic won’t panic buy. Your squad is strong enough already anyway to do the business in the league this year. 

 

If you signed Taylor from Killie that would be good business. He’s a solid SPFL left back and you’d have around £23m spare change to invest in other areas.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, edinburghowl said:

 

You can’t sell tickets if the seats aren’t there! The capacity of the stadium was just over 17,000 then. Last season (when our average attendance actually went down) if Hearts were in the Championship there would only be 5 clubs between Wednesday and Hearts in an attendance league table and we both have amongst the most expensive tickets and season tickets in our respective leagues.

 

Yes Hearts could and probably should sell more, we are in the capital city of Scotland, but there are bus loads of fans that head west to watch games, the product isn’t great (who wants to see Motherwell and St Johnstone 4 times a season?) and the away supports in the SPFL are far smaller.

 

If Hearts had a winning team on the pitch and a manager that had the backing of the entire fanbase I think we could sell out our ground again regularly and get close to a 20,000 average which again would be the limitation of our stadium. I know many people that aren’t attending now because of Levein, one chap a season ticket holder for 35 consecutive seasons didn’t renew this year.

 

Hearts have sold 25,000+ for European games at Murrayfield several times. The support is decent and regularly the 3rd best in Scotland.

 

 

 

Comparing Wednesday's season ticket prices with Hearts.......

 

https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/tickets-and-hospitality/season-tickets/season-tickets-2019-20

 

Yet we have more season ticket holders than you have average gates. Can't blame the standard of the opposition, we had over 20K when in the 3rd division. As for not attending because of the manager, all clubs have supporters who make excuses for not going at various times. The manager got you to a cup semi and a final last season. If he was so bad for business that he was costing the club money then surely he would be under pressure? How often does any manager at any club, even those at the very top, have the backing of the entire fan base? 

 

 

[edinburghowl]

1 minute ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Comparing Wednesday's season ticket prices with Hearts.......

 

https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/tickets-and-hospitality/season-tickets/season-tickets-2019-20

 

Yet we have more season ticket holders than you have average gates. Can't blame the standard of the opposition, we had over 20K when in the 3rd division. As for not attending because of the manager, all clubs have supporters who make excuses for not going at various times. The manager got you to a cup semi and a final last season. If he was so bad for business that he was costing the club money then surely he would be under pressure? How often does any manager at any club, even those at the very top, have the backing of the entire fan base? 

 

 

 

Not the same prices true, but as I said Hearts’ highest priced tickets (like Wednesday) are amongst the highest prices in our respective leagues. And I agree that there will rarely be unified support for a manager amongst a club’s fanbase.

 

But to answer your first question, the manager is under pressure. Big time. And that will only get worse if we fail to win against Ross County tomorrow. Anything other than 2nd/3rd/4th this season and the fans will be up in arms even more. The club even had to put a statement on the website recently from the Chairwoman Ann Budge about Levein, saying she would make changes if necessary but for now he has her backing. Our fans were fighting amongst each other in the stands in the league cup games a few weeks ago. That is how bad it is.

 

I don’t mind Levein, I wouldn’t be sad if he left or went back upstairs, and I think we could get a better manager, but I really don’t get the outright hatred of him from some fans. He’s a Hearts man through and through. He was and is supporter, he was a fine player, he has been manager twice, and has been the Director of Football. But the sad fact is he is the reason some fans aren’t going 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, edinburghowl said:

 

Not the same prices true, but as I said Hearts’ highest priced tickets (like Wednesday) are amongst the highest prices in our respective leagues. And I agree that there will rarely be unified support for a manager amongst a club’s fanbase.

 

But to answer your first question, the manager is under pressure. Big time. And that will only get worse if we fail to win against Ross County tomorrow. Anything other than 2nd/3rd/4th this season and the fans will be up in arms even more. The club even had to put a statement on the website recently from the Chairwoman Ann Budge about Levein, saying she would make changes if necessary but for now he has her backing. Our fans were fighting amongst each other in the stands in the league cup games a few weeks ago. That is how bad it is.

 

I don’t mind Levein, I wouldn’t be sad if he left or went back upstairs, and I think we could get a better manager, but I really don’t get the outright hatred of him from some fans. He’s a Hearts man through and through. He was and is supporter, he was a fine player, he has been manager twice, and has been the Director of Football. But the sad fact is he is the reason some fans aren’t going 

 

Interesting stuff. From afar Levein has come across as a well respected man who has always been a Hearts fan but I guess the last 2 seasons league position have taken their toll.  

[edinburghowl]

7 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

I guess the last 2 seasons league position have taken their toll.  

 

You're spot on. 2x 6th placed finishes is never going to be acceptable for a club like Hearts. The pressure is on big time tomorrow, we are not firing on all cylinders and haven’t been for months, and County won 3-0 last week and are flying high after promotion. It has banana skin written all over it. 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, edinburghowl said:

 

You're spot on. 2x 6th placed finishes is never going to be acceptable for a club like Hearts. The pressure is on big time tomorrow, we are not firing on all cylinders and haven’t been for months, and County won 3-0 last week and are flying high after promotion. It has banana skin written all over it. 

 

Just had a little read up on him. Remember him as being a stalwart defender but couldn't recall an incident where he got a hefty ban for cracking a team mate in a pre-season game - bit out of character?

[edinburghowl]

3 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Just had a little read up on him. Remember him as being a stalwart defender but couldn't recall an incident where he got a hefty ban for cracking a team mate in a pre-season game - bit out of character?

 

Levein was a cracking defender and leader in his time. Injuries ruined what could have been a fantastic career. A real shame. When he was in his prime Hearts made the Quarter finals of the UEFA Cup beating Bayern in the first leg at Tynecastle, and Scotland used to actually qualify for tournaments. Halcyon days! Now Hearts and Scotland are both pish.

 

Out of character? Probably not if I’m honest. Levein is an intelligent and articulate guy but he always had an angry and nasty streak to him even though that incident was extreme. He was a bit edgy and angry to begin with early in his management career too but he has mellowed massively now. Levein really has changed quite a lot. Nowadays he doesn’t get as wound up and he is the massive wind-up merchant to opposition managers, players and the press. 

[John O'Brien]

1 hour ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Just had a little read up on him. Remember him as being a stalwart defender but couldn't recall an incident where he got a hefty ban for cracking a team mate in a pre-season game - bit out of character?

Graham Hogg I think the player was. Levin lost it with after a goal i think.

[edinburghowl]

8 hours ago, John O'Brien said:

Graham Hogg I think the player was. Levin lost it with after a goal i think.

 

Yes it was Hogg, amazing to think he played for Man United early in his career. There’s apparently footage on YouTube of him marking a young Diego Maradona of Barcelona out of a game in the early 80s  

 

We were losing at Raith Rovers in a pre-season friendly and the players were coming off for half time. 3 of the back 4, Graeme Hogg, Alan McLaren (he won’t be popular with you as a Celtic man but he was another fine defender whose career was ruined by injury) and Levein had been at each other and arguing all game. Something was said and Hogg tried to swing for Levein and he missed. Craig hit him back and broke his nose and Hogg had to go off on a stretcher. Both were sent off and Hogg got his red card lying on the stretcher!

 

Hearts then transfer listed them both and gave them 2 game bans as an internal punishment. The SFA then stuck their beak in and lifted the ban for both to 10 games. I can’t recall any club before or after having a 10 game ban pushed on them for a fighting incident. The club were furious and withdrew their punishment to both players. McLaren not long after was sold to Rangers and Hearts decided to keep Levein, Hogg was later sold back down south.

 

The funny thing is they actually got on ok with each other and Levein as a manager even tried to sign Hogg at Cowdenbeath after Levein was forced to retire through injury. Hogg was at Linlithgow Rose in the Junior League and amazingly Cowden couldn’t match what the Rose were paying him so he never joined.

Edited August 10, 2019 by edinburghowl

[Guest]

20 hours ago, edinburghowl said:

 

You're spot on. 2x 6th placed finishes is never going to be acceptable for a club like Hearts. The pressure is on big time tomorrow, we are not firing on all cylinders and haven’t been for months, and County won 3-0 last week and are flying high after promotion. It has banana skin written all over it. 

 

Looks like the clock is ticking on Levein. 

 

2nd best today it would seem and lucky to get a draw with frustration growing in the stands. Messing the pitch up with a concert doesn't seem to have gone down too well either.

[edinburghowl]

2 hours ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Looks like the clock is ticking on Levein. 

 

2nd best today it would seem and lucky to get a draw with frustration growing in the stands. Messing the pitch up with a concert doesn't seem to have gone down too well either.

 

I’ve gone past the point of backing Levein, today was the turning point for me. No exaggeration we should have lost 4 or 5-0. County hit the woodwork 3 times, missed a penalty, and missed some other really good chances, we created next to nothing. I honestly have no idea how we managed to get a point out of that today Ross County must be gutted.

 

On paper our squad should easily beat County and be good enough for top 4, but the team look rudderless and bereft of confidence. We’ve got the League Cup knockout game at Motherwell on Tuesday and then Celtic away next. I can’t see us winning either of them and it will be a cricket score against Celtic if we play anything like that. The fans were booing for large parts of the game, Tynecastle is pretty poisonous at the moment. For me he has to go now. 

 

Killie look in trouble too. It’ll be interesting to see which manager gets sacked first out of the two.

Edited August 10, 2019 by edinburghowl

[Guest]

2 hours ago, edinburghowl said:

 

I’ve gone past the point of backing Levein, today was the turning point for me. No exaggeration we should have lost 4 or 5-0. County hit the woodwork 3 times, missed a penalty, and missed some other really good chances, we created next to nothing. I honestly have no idea how we managed to get a point out of that today Ross County must be gutted.

 

On paper our squad should easily beat County and be good enough for top 4, but the team look rudderless and bereft of confidence. We’ve got the League Cup knockout game at Motherwell on Tuesday and then Celtic away next. I can’t see us winning either of them and it will be a cricket score against Celtic if we play anything like that. The fans were booing for large parts of the game, Tynecastle is pretty poisonous at the moment. For me he has to go now. 

 

Killie look in trouble too. It’ll be interesting to see which manager gets sacked first out of the two.

 

Not good! To be honest, every time yourselves & Aberdeen drop points is good for Rangers as they are the only two capable of preventing Rangers from finishing 2nd at worst. Not surprised by Celtic's 2 wins but I wasn't expecting them to be as free scoring under Lennon as they have opened up.

 

Expected Kilmarnock to drop off, they peaked last season and were never likely to be able to repeat it.