Our problem according to Pep Guardiola (sort of)

[room0035]

I thought the opening post was going to say we got the wrong Portuguese manager 

 

Wolves on the other hand seen to have not 

[McRightSide]

8 hours ago, hugeowl said:

I think the point is that PG said that was the thing to do ..... he didn't say it was easy or practical . 

 

I totally agree , Myself and a few friends  were talking last week about the very same thing and once complacency has set in you HAVE  to change something to keep things fresh . 

 

Yes exactly - it's not about what's possible, just purely an insight into his philosophy

[McRightSide]

8 hours ago, TrueOwl said:

While he was clearly trying to rationalise his departure from Bayern after 3 years at the time I think it's probably conventional wisdom now as 3 years is typically regarded as a successful reign and most big clubs have adopted the director of football model seeming so they can rotate their managers more regularly. It would explain the 'Mourinho cycle' and to an extent Sir Alex's reign as he typically changed his head coach, backroom staff every couple of seasons to change direction while keeping the same spine of players for beyond 3 years and was more like a director of football before time than a typical manager today.

 

It was at the beginning of his time with Bayern 

[McRightSide]

4 hours ago, room0035 said:

I thought the opening post was going to say we got the wrong Portuguese manager 

 

Wolves on the other hand seen to have not 

 

The last 2 years many would have argued we did

[Swiss Toni]

14 hours ago, McRightSide said:

For me - if we agree with Pep - I think it leaves Chansiri with two options:

 

1. Stick with Carlos and cash in on a few players in January - allowing him the opportunity to really refresh the squad 

 

2. Twist with Carlos and replace him, knowing that could prove successful with minimal squad investment - but knowing a new manager with an old manager's players could push us even further backwards.

 

 

Both scenarios 'could' push us even further backwards. Seeing as the current squad is primarily made up of Carlos recruits, to break it up and cash in on some players in January suggests failure. Seems quite drastic to do that when you could just make one change and that's the manager.

 

Me personally, I'd see where we are at in a months time. We are not out of the playoff picture and potentially wouldn't be even then. If we did change manager then it gives any new man a month or so to assess before the start of the transfer window in January. I do think Carlos and his methods are starting to unravel just a little but think the managerial merry go round will start in a few weeks. Reading are doing poor and may lose Stam, Boro are not sparking yet under Monk. 

 

If every manager had the same ethos as Pep or the likes of Mourinho who seems to do similar then there would be zero loyalty left in the game. 

[shezzas left peg]

8 hours ago, Frazzlebeak said:

Never understood why teams in the championship buy old has beens on inflated wages. Surely young, up and coming hungry players are the way to go.

Been saying this all the way through Carlos tenure. 

How many of his signings would actually still be classified as good enough if we did gain promotion??. We bring old heads in with little to no reason sale value,refuse point blank to try to bring in hungry young players out to make a name for themselves, either on loan from Premier clubs or for a smaller outlay from the division lower with a view that we can improve them and they would still have a sell on value even I F they only prove to be average to good championship players. 

That said glad morgan fox got some game time yesterday and by all accounts gave a good account of himself. As for me these are the sort of signings we should be looking at. I know some on here don't rate him, but they also didnt rate Wiggins, oh he was so bad he ended up signing for a Premier league side. 

Edited October 22, 2017 by shezzas left peg

[adelphi1867]

14 hours ago, McRightSide said:

I'm going to preface this by saying I really like Carlos. I like.him as a manager, I like to listen to him and he seems like a thoroughly decent bloke. I'm a supporter of his but I'm struggling to see how he gets out of this one...although I hope he does.

 

Anyway...a couple of years ago I had the fortune to have a conversation with Pep Guardiola (it was just after he joined Bayern) he said a few interesting things but I think one is extremely relevant for us.

 

He said that every three years you need to either change the manager, or change the team. If not, people get comfortable, you become to predictable and ambition starts to taper away instead we humans start to favor security over risk and reward.

 

I really think that speaks to our problem. What we needed in Summer was either a new manager or several new players, with several departing.

 

For me - if we agree with Pep - I think it leaves Chansiri with two options:

 

1. Stick with Carlos and cash in on a few players in January - allowing him the opportunity to really refresh the squad 

 

2. Twist with Carlos and replace him, knowing that could prove successful with minimal squad investment - but knowing a new manager with an old manager's players could push us even further backwards.

 

Big call to make.

Ferguson use to change the 1st team coach every 2 seasons to keep things fresh.

Maybe that is what Kickaball should do, he has 3 of his mates from Portugal as his main coaches, so how about bringing a British coach as well as promoting Bullen.

New ideas, new voice to listen to.

[adelphi1867]

11 minutes ago, shezzas left peg said:

Been saying this all the way through Carlos tenure. 

How many of his signings would actually still be classified as good enough if we did gain promotion??. We bring old heads in with little to no reason sale value,refuse point blank to try to bring in hungry young players out to make a name for themselves, either on loan from Premier clubs or for a smaller outlay from the division lower with a view that we can improve them and they would still have a sell on value even I F they only prove to be average to good championship players. 

That said glad morgan fox got some game time yesterday and by all accounts gave a good account of himself. As for me these are the sort of signings we should be looking at. I know some on here don't rate him, but they also didnt rate Wiggins, oh he was so bad he ended up signing for a Premier league side. 

I cannot think of any serious intensions of bringing in players with the future in mind, only the present at any time in my 50 years of watching Wednesday.

Oh we bought the odd one every now and then, Craig, Hirst come to mind, but having said that, give kickaball his due, he has brought Fox, Reach, Van Aken and Joao  in to the club recently all below 24 yrs old.

It is only over the last 4 years we have given any serious thought to the development of players through the academy and it seems to be bearing fruit only now.

[Swiss Toni]

8 minutes ago, adelphi1867 said:

Ferguson use to change the 1st team coach every 2 seasons to keep things fresh.

Maybe that is what Kickaball should do, he has 3 of his mates from Portugal as his main coaches, so how about bringing a British coach as well as promoting Bullen.

New ideas, new voice to listen to.

 

Would he though?

[Malkmus]

14 hours ago, Jamie_W said:

The squad we have is strong and enough to get promoted. 

 

But is it?

It's a no from me.

[Jennz]

16 hours ago, McRightSide said:

I'm going to preface this by saying I really like Carlos. I like.him as a manager, I like to listen to him and he seems like a thoroughly decent bloke. I'm a supporter of his but I'm struggling to see how he gets out of this one...although I hope he does.

 

Anyway...a couple of years ago I had the fortune to have a conversation with Pep Guardiola (it was just after he joined Bayern) he said a few interesting things but I think one is extremely relevant for us.

 

He said that every three years you need to either change the manager, or change the team. If not, people get comfortable, you become to predictable and ambition starts to taper away instead we humans start to favor security over risk and reward.

 

I really think that speaks to our problem. What we needed in Summer was either a new manager or several new players, with several departing.

 

For me - if we agree with Pep - I think it leaves Chansiri with two options:

 

1. Stick with Carlos and cash in on a few players in January - allowing him the opportunity to really refresh the squad 

 

2. Twist with Carlos and replace him, knowing that could prove successful with minimal squad investment - but knowing a new manager with an old manager's players could push us even further backwards.

 

Big call to make.

 

Don't necessarily agree with the premise but maybe that's how modern football is now, aren't McCarthy & Carlos the two longest serving managers in the Championship?...that in itself is crazy to me...it's a quick fix world we live in now, only things never seem to get fixed quickly.

[SiJ]

If I was Citeh I'd be wondering why our manager is watching loads of Wednesday games