Our problem according to Pep Guardiola (sort of)

[McRightSide]

I'm going to preface this by saying I really like Carlos. I like.him as a manager, I like to listen to him and he seems like a thoroughly decent bloke. I'm a supporter of his but I'm struggling to see how he gets out of this one...although I hope he does.

 

Anyway...a couple of years ago I had the fortune to have a conversation with Pep Guardiola (it was just after he joined Bayern) he said a few interesting things but I think one is extremely relevant for us.

 

He said that every three years you need to either change the manager, or change the team. If not, people get comfortable, you become to predictable and ambition starts to taper away instead we humans start to favor security over risk and reward.

 

I really think that speaks to our problem. What we needed in Summer was either a new manager or several new players, with several departing.

 

For me - if we agree with Pep - I think it leaves Chansiri with two options:

 

1. Stick with Carlos and cash in on a few players in January - allowing him the opportunity to really refresh the squad 

 

2. Twist with Carlos and replace him, knowing that could prove successful with minimal squad investment - but knowing a new manager with an old manager's players could push us even further backwards.

 

Big call to make.

[pgmetcalf]

Why would PG say anything about us? We're not even in the same division 

[McRightSide]

He didnt

 

He said something I think is relevant to us

[jonnyowl]

1 hour ago, McRightSide said:

I'm going to preface this by saying I really like Carlos. I like.him as a manager, I like to listen to him and he seems like a thoroughly decent bloke. I'm a supporter of his but I'm struggling to see how he gets out of this one...although I hope he does.

 

Anyway...a couple of years ago I had the fortune to have a conversation with Pep Guardiola (it was just after he joined Bayern) he said a few interesting things but I think one is extremely relevant for us.

 

He said that every three years you need to either change the manager, or change the team. If not, people get comfortable, you become to predictable and ambition starts to taper away instead we humans start to favor security over risk and reward.

 

I really think that speaks to our problem. What we needed in Summer was either a new manager or several new players, with several departing.

 

For me - if we agree with Pep - I think it leaves Chansiri with two options:

 

1. Stick with Carlos and cash in on a few players in January - allowing him the opportunity to really refresh the squad 

 

2. Twist with Carlos and replace him, knowing that could prove successful with minimal squad investment - but knowing a new manager with an old manager's players could push us even further backwards.

 

Big call to make.

And who is going to take our players when they are on massive wages?

 

[McRightSide]

Just now, jonnyowl said:

And who is going to take our players when they are on massive wages?

 

 

Plenty of takers. We have some good players

 

I'm pretty sure we could offload a number in a heartbeat.

 

Dknt forget these players got very close to promotion the last 2 years

[jonnyowl]

4 minutes ago, McRightSide said:

 

Plenty of takers. We have some good players

 

I'm pretty sure we could offload a number in a heartbeat.

 

Dknt forget these players got very close to promotion the last 2 years

Good players on £30k a week, who aren't performing? 

 

No one will pay those wages!

 

Players will be happy to see out their contracts!

[McRightSide]

11 minutes ago, jonnyowl said:

Good players on £30k a week, who aren't performing? 

 

No one will pay those wages!

 

Players will be happy to see out their contracts!

 

Balls. I think you are seriously underestimating the money being thrown around in the Championship.

 

FF, Lees, Hooper, Lee, Bannan, Westwood, Rhodes would all be gone in a heartbeat if available

Edited October 22, 2017 by McRightSide

[Mr Farrell]

Amazed there is still a debate why a massively failing manager should be allowed to continue failing.

 

Thanks Carlos. You are funny, pull funny faces, and are entertaining at press conferences. You can't however, in a million years, get a team out of the Championship.

 

You've earned a creditable place in our history, but it's time to say goodbye before you taint your reputation any more.

[cross owl]

Give for instance Carlos a different squad , would he be joint second with the dark sides players , get promoted with udders , save Rovrum from the drop when Colin came to them when they were certainties for relegation , be top with wolves forty mill worth of recruitment . They preach togetherness as a squad but on the pitch they seem to just be going through the motions , lots of endeavour but nothing else . Either a decent chunk of our squad needs changing , the manager or both but as we are we have gone from a skint team other squads see as there for the taking to a rich team there for the taking . 

[fred mciver]

But Pep didn't have agents buying poor players,  via videos.

 

That's really what needs to change with us for January's market.

Edited October 22, 2017 by fred mciver

[HirstWhoScoredIt]

Might be ok for Barca, Bayern or City.

 

our problem being that the only players we could get decent cash for are:-

 

Westwood

Lees

Bannan

Lee

Hooper

Forestieri

Rhodes

 

The rest are aging players on big contracts or undesirable to others.

 

Which when we've spent decent cash on so many players is absolutely scandalous:-

 

Kean

Hunt

Reach

Pudil

Fox

Van Aken

Abdi

Joao

Matias

Jones

Winnall

 

What a waste of money, not even mentioning the out lay in wages on Boyd, Fletcher, Nuhiu, Hutch, Wallace and Butterfield.

 

Awful, awful recruitment.

[jonnyowl]

3 hours ago, McRightSide said:

 

Balls. I think you are seriously underestimating the money being thrown around in the Championship.

 

FF, Lees, Hooper, Lee, Bannan, Westwood, Rhodes would all be gone in a heartbeat if available

But you wouldn't get rid of them though, even if we wanted to freshen up the squad!

 

And there would only be one or two teams that could afford £30k a week wages!

[Almat]

Pep - the manager who has the easiest ride in management ever. Starts his managerial career with Barcelona B FFS, does well for a year (surely not difficult) lands the full team gig, needs a new challenge so moves to Bayern FFS, then gets bored so moves to Manchester City. Is he a great manager? How would we know? 

[Guest Quist]

4 hours ago, McRightSide said:

I'm going to preface this by saying I really like Carlos. I like.him as a manager, I like to listen to him and he seems like a thoroughly decent bloke. I'm a supporter of his but I'm struggling to see how he gets out of this one...although I hope he does.

 

Anyway...a couple of years ago I had the fortune to have a conversation with Pep Guardiola (it was just after he joined Bayern) he said a few interesting things but I think one is extremely relevant for us.

 

He said that every three years you need to either change the manager, or change the team. If not, people get comfortable, you become to predictable and ambition starts to taper away instead we humans start to favor security over risk and reward.

 

I really think that speaks to our problem. What we needed in Summer was either a new manager or several new players, with several departing.

 

For me - if we agree with Pep - I think it leaves Chansiri with two options:

 

1. Stick with Carlos and cash in on a few players in January - allowing him the opportunity to really refresh the squad 

 

2. Twist with Carlos and replace him, knowing that could prove successful with minimal squad investment - but knowing a new manager with an old manager's players could push us even further backwards.

 

Big call to make.

Option 1 is a non starter we could only sell the two or three players who make a difference and he would only by more of the same which are generally slow technical players. He does not understand need for speed strength and youth in a team.

[Mike Hunt]

I think the point is that PG said that was the thing to do ..... he didn't say it was easy or practical . 

 

I totally agree , Myself and a few friends  were talking last week about the very same thing and once complacency has set in you HAVE  to change something to keep things fresh . 

[TrueOwl]

While he was clearly trying to rationalise his departure from Bayern after 3 years at the time I think it's probably conventional wisdom now as 3 years is typically regarded as a successful reign and most big clubs have adopted the director of football model seeming so they can rotate their managers more regularly. It would explain the 'Mourinho cycle' and to an extent Sir Alex's reign as he typically changed his head coach, backroom staff every couple of seasons to change direction while keeping the same spine of players for beyond 3 years and was more like a director of football before time than a typical manager today.

[Owl999]

4 hours ago, jonnyowl said:

Good players on £30k a week, who aren't performing? 

 

No one will pay those wages!

 

Players will be happy to see out their contracts!

Precisely, players who are very comfortable and lack the ambition needed .

[Frazzlebeak]

Never understood why teams in the championship buy old has beens on inflated wages. Surely young, up and coming hungry players are the way to go.

[Brommers]

31 minutes ago, Almat said:

Pep - the manager who has the easiest ride in management ever. Starts his managerial career with Barcelona B FFS, does well for a year (surely not difficult) lands the full team gig, needs a new challenge so moves to Bayern FFS, then gets bored so moves to Manchester City. Is he a great manager? How would we know? 

I agree to an extent that he's a great manager of great teams but I suspect it's not as easy as you make out. You have got to have the respect of players with huge egos and need to be able to build a team to play your style of football. Which I would suggest he has been pretty good at. Would he be able to perform some of the miracles the likes of Big Sam and dare I say Warnock have? Probably not, it's horses for courses, which means if we replace Carlos, his successor has to be a really good fit.

[cross owl]

 

 

  If we got ourselves a  manager in the wilder mould we could flog off the entire team bar two or three for a few million and let the massive wage earners just go , go hunting for ambitious players in league one and two who would sweat blood to be given the chance of champ footie and be no where near ffp . They've spent , seriously what , two million altogether and look at them . Even if we did it and we ended up mid table at least we would be mid table seeing our team going for it rather than being mid table and seeing our team have the occasional blinder but on the whole disjointed and being seen as three points home and away to everyone  .