gurujuan Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Wickham, Fryatt and Best had no problem scoring goals with that midfield Too many excuses I'm afraid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IstillhateSteveBould Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Wickham, Fryatt and Best had no problem scoring goals with that midfield Too many excuses I'm afraid For a start, all out of our price range. Wickham is on a different planet to our strikers, Fryatt scored a massive 4 goals for us, Leon Best scored 4 in 15 for us (May is on 3 in 13 so 2 games to match him) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC1867 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 As a midfielder when you get the ball you should look up and see your striker/s on the toes of the centre backs or the shoulder of the full back. Not stood next to you. There lies the "problem" with Stevie May. Positionally AWOL. It's just a case of deciding if it's his fault or Gray's. 27 goals last season says he is not out of position when he gets the service. Point remains: he gets no service. We have a sub-standard midfield and SG's tactics don't help but imho if we tried to play free flowing attacking football with this squad we would be getting battered most weeks. Imo our midfield is forcing SG to play this defensive football: - Semedo - in any league he is in he is a limited defensive midfielder - he can't go forward. he works hard and tackles but offers nothing creatively. no surprise as he was a CB when he was a kid. - Lee - we are playing him CM when he was Oldham's player of year at RB. His composure is good and he works hard but no creative or killer ball in him. Keeps possession. - Hutch - the sort of quality we need but so injury prone his impact is limited - Coke - anonymous player for me. good engine to go box to box but fundamentally not good enough - Palmer - weak in CM. Better with the game in front of him like at RB. not even going to mention Corry, McCabe as not even L2 clubs want them on loan. As for wide midfielders; we have a Maghoma who has only really done it at L2 and Maguire who thinks he is a striker so again is not going to be inclined to track back and help our other midfielders out. Similarly, Drenthe looks great and a danger off the bench but clearly SG thinks he lacks the stamina or will to track back over 90 mins: he does not track back when he gets 15 mins ffs. In short we need more quality. No investment though so what can we expect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 27 goals last season says he is not out of position when he gets the service. Point remains: he gets no service. We have a sub-standard midfield and SG's tactics don't help but imho if we tried to play free flowing attacking football with this squad we would be getting battered most weeks. Imo our midfield is forcing SG to play this defensive football: - Semedo - in any league he is in he is a limited defensive midfielder - he can't go forward. he works hard and tackles but offers nothing creatively. no surprise as he was a CB when he was a kid. - Lee - we are playing him CM when he was Oldham's player of year at RB. His composure is good and he works hard but no creative or killer ball in him. Keeps possession. - Hutch - the sort of quality we need but so injury prone his impact is limited - Coke - anonymous player for me. good engine to go box to box but fundamentally not good enough - Palmer - weak in CM. Better with the game in front of him like at RB. not even going to mention Corry, McCabe as not even L2 clubs want them on loan. As for wide midfielders; we have a Maghoma who has only really done it at L2 and Maguire who thinks he is a striker so again is not going to be inclined to track back and help our other midfielders out. Similarly, Drenthe looks great and a danger off the bench but clearly SG thinks he lacks the stamina or will to track back over 90 mins: he does not track back when he gets 15 mins ffs. In short we need more quality. No investment though so what can we expect? Yes we could do with more quality in there but that same midfield saw us score freely enough last season. The difference? Lack of real quality up front, at least when compared to last season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC1867 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Yes we could do with more quality in there but that same midfield saw us score freely enough last season. The difference? Lack of real quality up front, at least when compared to last season Fair point. But despite what SG is saying, we are NOT creating chances though. We could have <insert good striker> up front and he would still be dropping deep to try to get the ball. That's my only point. We also played counter attack last season as we had the players for it; we are not doing that this season and, as you say, some of the players who contributed to that being effective last season have gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Fair point. But despite what SG is saying, we are NOT creating chances though. We could have <insert good striker> up front and he would still be dropping deep to try to get the ball. That's my only point. We also played counter attack last season as we had the players for it; we are not doing that this season and, as you say, some of the players who contributed to that being effective last season have gone. Truth in that but my thoughts are that Gray doesn't believe that he has the attackers to inflict enough damage on the opposition, and is probably playing a more cagey game. It's not Nuhiu or May's fault, but they are not Conor Wickham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IstillhateSteveBould Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 We were far more attack minded under Gray last season. At times we had 4 strikers on the pitch. He's changed tact. Plus we were virtually safe with plenty of games left, and that's when the floodgates opened, at both ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 We were far more attack minded under Gray last season. At times we had 4 strikers on the pitch. He's changed tact. Plus we were virtually safe with plenty of games left, and that's when the floodgates opened, at both ends. We were, but because we had better forwards. We've seen games this season when Gray has put all the strikers on to force a win, but with little success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Afobe can't stop scoring (sniggers) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IstillhateSteveBould Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 We were, but because we had better forwards. We've seen games this season when Gray has put all the strikers on to force a win, but with little success. Other than Wickham though, I don't think we did have better forwards. Fryatt and Best's records for us were no better than Nuhiu and May's this season really. We had more players contributing attacking wise last season. Lavery and Antonio, plus purple patches for Maguire and Nuhiu. Hutchinson was also in the side towards the end. It's just too easy to blame the strikers. More to it than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 As a midfielder when you get the ball you should look up and see your striker/s on the toes of the centre backs or the shoulder of the full back. Not stood next to you. There lies the "problem" with Stevie May. Positionally AWOL. It's just a case of deciding if it's his fault or Gray's. Unless it's neither Grays instruction or Mays will. But simply the only way he can receive the ball in a team that doesn't make a forward pass at all unless a centre half does a 60 yard whack one over the top when the opposition is pressuring them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Other than Wickham though, I don't think we did have better forwards. Fryatt and Best's records for us were no better than Nuhiu and May's this season really. We had more players contributing attacking wise last season. Lavery and Antonio, plus purple patches for Maguire and Nuhiu. Hutchinson was also in the side towards the end. It's just too easy to blame the strikers. More to it than that. I would agree, Wickham is real quality. May perhaps only lacks experience when compared to Fryatt and Best, and at least he's ours. At this stage though, I don't think that Nuhiu and May can take the game to the opposition. I much prefer to have the security of a five man midfield and allow players like Maguire, Maghoma and Drenthe to get forward and create. Nuhiu and May don't occupy the defenders for long enough to get our midfielders up there. That's the major difference between them and Wickham and Fryatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geörge Whitebread Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I would agree, Wickham is real quality. May perhaps only lacks experience when compared to Fryatt and Best, and at least he's ours. At this stage though, I don't think that Nuhiu and May can take the game to the opposition. I much prefer to have the security of a five man midfield and allow players like Maguire, Maghoma and Drenthe to get forward and create. ***Nuhiu and May don't occupy the defenders for long enough to get our midfielders up there.*** That's the major difference between them and Wickham and Fryatt Nuhiu does a reasonable job at holding the ball up to be fair. I'd agree that we need a 5 man midfield with more than 1 flair player in it (3 from Drenthe/ Maghoma/ Maguire/ GTF need to be in the same team!). Nuhiu would get the nod over May every time for me, for this very reason. He might not be quick or prolific, but the ball does stick to him and he can bring others into the game. May loses possession before anyone else can het involved. People defending him and saying that he's not to blame in isolation are absolutely right. But we're not going to solve enough to make Stevie May effective in the short term. So we need to use him sparingly off the bench for a while and hopefully build up to both him and the rest of the team being capable of felivering the kind of football that he can join in with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Nuhiu does a reasonable job at holding the ball up to be fair. I'd agree that we need a 5 man midfield with more than 1 flair player in it (3 from Drenthe/ Maghoma/ Maguire/ GTF need to be in the same team!). Nuhiu would get the nod over May every time for me, for this very reason. He might not be quick or prolific, but the ball does stick to him and he can bring others into the game. May loses possession before anyone else can het involved. People defending him and saying that he's not to blame in isolation are absolutely right. But we're not going to solve enough to make Stevie May effective in the short term. So we need to use him sparingly off the bench for a while and hopefully build up to both him and the rest of the team being capable of felivering the kind of football that he can join in with. I would agree with that If we are going to play with one up, and I think we should, then Nuhiu is the best we currently have for that role. May should do his work from the bench from where we can pitch him in against tiring defenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semedo's ferret Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Good strikers show there pedigree every day in training. During a goal scoring drought, managers and players are usually quick to point this out. Have I missed anyone defending him with the usual.. "May just needs that bit of luck on match day. We see him in training and he scores unbelievable goal after goal. With his head, left foot, right foot. The lot. The boy is different class" Or words to that effect. Point is, from what I've heard, he's not shining in front of goal during sessions. Work rate is second to none, so that's his only route onto the team sheet. And that he cost us 800k. Still, I don't blame May. The system is letting our strikers down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Good strikers show there pedigree every day in training. During a goal scoring drought, managers and players are usually quick to point this out. Have I missed anyone defending him with the usual.. "May just needs that bit of luck on match day. We see him in training and he scores unbelievable goal after goal. With his head, left foot, right foot. The lot. The boy is different class" Or words to that effect. Point is, from what I've heard, he's not shining in front of goal during sessions. Work rate is second to none, so that's his only route onto the team sheet. And that he cost us 800k. Still, I don't blame May. The system is letting our strikers down. I think we could come up with better options than Stevie May if we are looking to get the balance right. Hard work is an admirable quality but is it enough to guarantee him a place in the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geörge Whitebread Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) That's the thing, we need to take "blame" out of the equation. None of this is Stevie's fault. He will probably come good under the right circumstances. We're just not providing those circumstances for him as yet. Some of that is about his own development too (he's only 21!) Used as a sub (super sub!), as suggested above, when defenders legs are tiring, could lead to great things for him. Running about at that stage of the game would cause some reyt bova, and could just lead to mistakes and chances created for both him and others. We have two forwards that will run and run. Why not give Nuhiu the task for the first hour, then when his legs have gone, send on a fresh pair. Tactics usually go out of the window at that point anyway, with one team chasing and the other trying to time waste (or whatever). Drenthe and GTF might not last the full 90. So they can be used as a rotation pair. All we need to solve then, is Maguire's discipline. So he can stay on for the whole game without us having to risk going down to 10 men. Edited October 29, 2014 by George Whitebread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geörge Whitebread Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 First hour... (Insert back 5) - - - Lee - Semedo Maguire - GTF - Maghoma - - - - Nuhiu Last 30 or so... - - - - Lee - Semedo Maguire - Drenthe - Maghoma - - - - - May (Possibly going 4-4-2 with Drenthe going wide and Maguire joining May up front) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IstillhateSteveBould Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I think we could come up with better options than Stevie May if we are looking to get the balance right. Hard work is an admirable quality but is it enough to guarantee him a place in the side. You're making out like hard work is all he's shown. Get him in the right positions, in and around the box, and he WILL score goals. He's scored 3 good goals in an impotent side. Should have been 4 with the excellent finish at Bolton that was disallowed. He's made some great runs in good areas in the games I've seen, and never received the ball. I don't think it's unreasonable to believe he'd be on 6 or 7 goals already if we had a player with the vision to pick those runs out. Nobody would be trying to pick apart petty aspects to his game if he had scored 6 or 7. You're ignoring the positives and highlighting the negatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wilyfox Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 He'll come good, I'm confident of that. You can usually tell pretty quickly when we've signed a dud; I don't believe he is one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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