Salmonbones Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 100% do this, and if Wednesdayite push it to the club, even better. Do it properly though, have the facts published in a small book, garnish the publication with historical stories that some of us do enjoy reading about, and get it branded by the club and make it something they can sell, who knows Kivo, you might be onto something if you get a % of each one sold. It also allows us to have some pride again, and shows those over at S2 that we aren't as tacky as they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian joicey Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I agree with the idea that we should date our ultimate origin to 1820. The Wednesday club was a sports club which originally played cricket (and whose members were partially responsible for Bramall Lane, Sheffield United Cricket Club (and therefore, unfortunately, Sheffield United Football Club) and Yorkshire County Cricket Club. In 1867 they decided to form a football section. Unfortunately the Wednesday Cricket Club were shafted by United when they were thrown out of Bramall Lane in 1893. Even though the football and cricket sections separated before the end of the 19th century, Wednesday F.C. still trace their origins to the Wednedsay C.C., formed 1820 because at the time they were formed, they were the same club. In summer they played cricket and in winter they played football. I have a photocopy of a piece from (I think) the Sheffield Independent on April 20th 1896 of an article about the Wednesday C.C.. This confirms the date of origin as 1820. The article quotes the Wednesday C.C. secretary, L.A. Morley (who I think played at least one game for Wednesday F.C. in the F.A. Cup), who wrote a short history of the club for a committee meeting. Morley said that it was difficult writing the history because many documents were missing, however their one of their oldest members had information on Sheffield cricket from 1820, which included details of a match played by Wednesday C.C.. This member was W Stratford. I think that it is unlikely that this is Wednesday's first president, but it may very well be his son. Unfortunately my photocopy is so bad that it is difficult to read, and I would recommend that someone digs out the original and copies it. I (somewhere) have a photocopy of details of a Wednesday match from 1825, where, if I recall, they played the Friday club at Darnall. I think one of our greatest claims to fame is that we had a representative in the first official football international (Charles Clegg v. Scotland in 1872) and two players in the first official test match (Tom Armitage and George Ulyett, v. Australia 1877). Ulyett even played for the Wednesday F.C. He was a goalkeeper. fascinating stuff, would love to see this documented (and factually accepted) officially Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KivoOwl Posted April 28, 2011 Author Share Posted April 28, 2011 I will have a look on my next trip to the library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Bach Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 It's time to look to the future. Not try to compare tail sizes with other clubs from three centuries ago about who was first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian joicey Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 It's time to look to the future. Not try to compare tail sizes with other clubs from three centuries ago about who was first. surely marketing (and subsequent sales) IS looking to the future! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Bach Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 surely marketing (and subsequent sales) IS looking to the future! Nobody cares about average League One clubs. Get back to The Premier League and then we can start talking marketing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lees Tom Cat Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 It's time to look to the future. Not try to compare tail sizes with other clubs from three centuries ago about who was first. Some people are interested in History..Whether it be family history or the football club they support...These people would also be able to correct any wrongdoings should others care to try and change history for themselves,, to benefit themselves in whatever way's possible. Teaching others about the history and wanting to preserve it... what's wrong with that? Nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Bach Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Some people are interested in History..Whether it be family history or the football club they support...These people would also be able to correct any wrongdoings should others care to try and change history for themselves,, to benefit themselves in whatever way's possible. Teaching others about the history and wanting to preserve it... what's wrong with that? Nothing. Clutching at straws though isn't it? Something about cricket? We all know and appreciate our history, some very interesting history may I add, but sounds small time and disrespectful to Sheffield F.C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lees Tom Cat Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Clutching at straws though isn't it? Something about cricket? We all know and appreciate our history, some very interesting history may I add, but sounds small time and disrespectful to Sheffield F.C. Whether you like it or not Football was created as a winter sport as cricket was a summer sport..And the factory workers wanted recreation in the winter..On a Wednesday.. It's the way it panned out..It's our history..It's how the game was created..Some are proud of it..Obviously it does not interest others.. Some clubs have museums...It interests some people those who it doesn't wont visit them. It's our clubs history...A history other clubs would kill to exploit if it was theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOOTIE AND THE SHIT TU Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Whether you like it or not Football was created as a winter sport as cricket was a summer sport..And the factory workers wanted recreation in the winter..On a Wednesday.. It's the way it panned out..It's our history..It's how the game was created..Some are proud of it..Obviously it does not interest others.. Some clubs have museums...It interests some people those who it doesn't wont visit them. It's our clubs history...A history other clubs would kill to exploit if it was theirs. Like I've said previously, we don't do enough to celebrate our history. If the roles were reversed and United had our history, they would do a better job of marketing it, they've shown this through marketing idea's like "The original United" It's the one thing we can learn from United. A lot of people up and down the country don't know how illustrious our history is, we need to make people aware. Just a bloke, who used up all his luck in one go when he met his wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
statowl Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Like I've said previously, we don't do enough to celebrate our history. If the roles were reversed and United had our history, they would do a better job of marketing it, they've shown this through marketing idea's like "The original United" It's the one thing we can learn from United. A lot of people up and down the country don't know how illustrious our history is, we need to make people aware. It's interesting that United claim to be the first "United". The Sheffield United Cricket Club was formed in 1854, but it was by no reasonable definition, a sports club. It was created simply to ensure the building and management of Bramall Lane ground. They didn't have a cricket team until 1892, after the football team itself had come into existence. Terrifyingly enough, Wednesday were part of that creation process, because William Stratford, who was a Wednesdayite, was on that first committee that created the entity that is Sheffield United, and Wednesday were one of the six clubs who began playing on the ground after it had been built. The others were Sheffield Club, Broomhall, Milton, Caxton and Shrewsbury. Of those Broomhall and Milton went on to form football sections. I'm not sure of the connection between Sheffield Cricket Club and Sheffield Football Club. At best, Sheffield United were the first sports related body to use "United". They certainly weren't the first United football team in Sheffield. In 1868 (Wednesday's second year of existence, and 20 years prior to Sheffield United) there were two United's in Sheffield, Hanover United and Norton United. In 1870-71 there was the Sheffield United Gym Club playing football, In 1873 there was Owlerton United, and in 1874 Ecclesall United, Park National United and Sheaf United. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOOTIE AND THE SHIT TU Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 It's interesting that United claim to be the first "United". The Sheffield United Cricket Club was formed in 1854, but it was by no reasonable definition, a sports club. It was created simply to ensure the building and management of Bramall Lane ground. They didn't have a cricket team until 1892, after the football team itself had come into existence. Terrifyingly enough, Wednesday were part of that creation process, because William Stratford, who was a Wednesdayite, was on that first committee that created the entity that is Sheffield United, and Wednesday were one of the six clubs who began playing on the ground after it had been built. The others were Sheffield Club, Broomhall, Milton, Caxton and Shrewsbury. Of those Broomhall and Milton went on to form football sections. I'm not sure of the connection between Sheffield Cricket Club and Sheffield Football Club. At best, Sheffield United were the first sports related body to use "United". They certainly weren't the first United football team in Sheffield. In 1868 (Wednesday's second year of existence, and 20 years prior to Sheffield United) there were two United's in Sheffield, Hanover United and Norton United. In 1870-71 there was the Sheffield United Gym Club playing football, In 1873 there was Owlerton United, and in 1874 Ecclesall United, Park National United and Sheaf United. Thanks for that, I'd never heard any of it before, very interesting read. Just a bloke, who used up all his luck in one go when he met his wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
statowl Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 While looking at the United Wikipedia webpage, it is interesting to note the first paragraph of their "History". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheffield_United_F.C. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sheffield United formed on 22 March 1889 as a football and bandy club[4] at the Adelphi Hotel,Sheffield (now the site of the Crucible Theatre) by the President of the Cricket Club Sir Charles Clegg, as a way of keeping the Sheffield United Cricket Club together during the winter close season, following the departure of Sheffield Wednesday to their new ground at Olive Grove and generating income revenues from Bramall Lane over the winter. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- They appear to have taken our history, and stolen it. We were formed (at the Adelphi Hotel) as a way to give the cricketers something to over the Winter months. It would have been difficult for United to form a football section to keep the cricketers together over the winter, when United didn't have a cricket team until 1892, 3 years after the football club was formed. Plus, I don't remember ever reading that United had a bandy section (bandy was a form of ice hockey). Notts Forest WERE formed as a football and bandy club. Whoever wrote the history section for United seems to have combined Forests and Wednesday's history. This a possibly because they are mildly embarrassed by the fact that the United football club was formed for purely pecuniary reasons. Wednesday had buggered off to Olive Grove,losing the management committee a significant amount of money, and the 1889 Semi-Final of the F.A. Cup, which was played at Bramall Lane, which showed the committee just how much money football could bring in. So they created the Sheffield United Football Club to chase that winter football revenue. I think this is one of the reasons that our history is important. If we are not careful in writing it ourselves, truthfully, others will write it for us, and untruths and misinformation creep in (like the stupid "Wednesday are pigs because Hillsborough is built on a piggery"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KivoOwl Posted April 28, 2011 Author Share Posted April 28, 2011 Fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 03 owl Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 (edited) I posted this in another Thread but thought it would be fitting in this one. http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/Sheffield_Wednesday/Sheffield_Wednesday.htm Edited April 28, 2011 by 03 owl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offside_Owl Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 As well as my initial meh reaction my second reaction is that is sounds a bit desperate - Notts County are the oldest club in the league. Us trying to extend our age by adding on the non-football bit seems weird. Well quite. We'd be a laughing stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nottscounty Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 NOTTS COUNTY - THE WORLD'S OLDEST FOOTBALL LEAGUE CLUB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KivoOwl Posted April 29, 2011 Author Share Posted April 29, 2011 NOTTS COUNTY - THE WORLD'S OLDEST FOOTBALL LEAGUE CLUB How could anyone outside England have a chance of claiming such a title? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigblue Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 NOTTS COUNTY - THE WORLD'S OLDEST FOOTBALL LEAGUE CLUB I don't recall anyone disputing that... until now... Are Sheffield Wednesday a football league club? YES Was the club established over 30 years before Notts County? YES Nobody claimed that Wednesday were a football club before Notts County, so I'm not sure who you're shouting at??? We have stated a fact though - the club was actually established in 1820, yet we don't acknowledge that fact, which is a shame. Notts County are one of the longest serving football league clubs (along with 11 others); but you're neither the oldest as a football club (Sheffield FC) or the oldest club in football (Hallam) or even the oldest club in professional football, as it claims on Wikipedia (Sheffield Wednesday) and therefore not the oldest football league club either (again, Wednesday). You're the oldest professional football club to be originally established as a football club or that has exclusively played football since it's formation. It needs to be a complex statement like that so the three Sheffield clubs that came before you can be ignored! UTO FTM :0) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulsar Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 NOTTS COUNTY - THE WORLD'S OLDEST FOOTBALL LEAGUE CLUB Only because that is what you have been told and are led to believe....... If facts dictate that we actually are,would you want to dispute them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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