Comparison with Brighton

[Holmowl]

Brighton's settled attack:-

 

Murray 3446 minutes 23 goals

Hemed  1998 minutes 14 goals

Baldock 2364 minutes 12 goals

49 goals from strikers

 

Knockaert 3785 minutes 15 goals

Murphy 2071 minutes 4 goals

19 goals from wingers

 

Our very unsettled attack:-

 

Fletcher 2191 minutes 11 goals

Forestieri 1775 minutes 7 goals

Hooper 1445 minutes 6 goals

Rhodes 1330 minutes 3 goals

Winnall 863 minutes 3 goals

30 goals from strikers

 

Forestieri 900 minutes 5 goals

Wallace 2910 minutes 5 goals

Reach 2400 minutes 3 goals

13 goals from wingers

 

Neither side scored many from CM or defenders

Both played 442

Brighton's attack was any two from 3 - Ours was any two from 5

Brighton's front four scored 68 - Our front four scored 43

 

Being kind, injuries to Hooper, Fletch and FF reduced our ability to find a settled front four. Being less kind, perhaps we would never have found a settled attack? 

 

442 but a settled and balanced 442 clearly can work. Brighton and Burnley both got this balance right. 

 

Partnerships up front matter. Vokes and Gray, Murray and Hemed, Murray and Baldock...played thousands of minutes together in their promotion seasons. Not a single pairing for us played even 1000 minutes. Most pairings played only a few hundred minutes together.

 

I hope injuries are kind to us, and that Carlos looks for and finds a settled pairing. Personally I have no doubt that we have the quality, both wide and in our strikers, but they must be settled.

 

 

 

[MOwl]

We have too many strikers to find a 'settled' strikeforce. There's no way we can keep them all happy if we stick with a consistent two. For me next year we have to start Rhodes as much as possible with Gary Hooper.

 

I also think we need to stop considering Forestieri as a striker, I really hope he isn't played there next year. Take a look at the video I've put in below, I've counted goals against (from open play, not corners/rebounds) Forest, Cardiff, Wolves, Blackburn, Bolton, Fulham, Charlton and Villa which have come from when he's played left midfield. It's his most dangerous position, he allows us to overload and he can cause problems when he comes inside. We have to get the best out of Fernando next year, and to do that we have to play him out wide. It also allows him to get considerably more 1v1 situations where he can dribble at the fullback. 

 

Please Carlos!! Find a way to make it work.

 

 

[northeastowl]

It's all well and good comparing us but we play nothing like each other.

 

Yes they are a rigid solid team like us but they attack with a plan.

 

if the early ball is on then it's quickly into the strikers or the channel. If not then they quickly get the ball to the winger who beats his man and whips a cross in to 3 players attacking it. 

 

We have maybe done that in a couple of games this season. We are a slow possession based team that try to break sides down but we don't have the creativity to do it. 

 

Will Carlos change, my opinion is no but most on here seem confident.

[Owling Wolfe]

Totally agree about Forestieri, he is best when he is running at people from the wings.

[Bob]

With a couple of quality additions we have the quality to get into the top two.

 

The important bit is the setup and mindset to be positive and not go defensive when we go into the lead.

 

Whether Carlos can do it remains to be seen.

[Lee A]

19 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

I hope injuries are kind to us, and that Carlos looks for and finds a settled pairing. Personally I have no doubt that we have the quality, both wide and in our strikers, but they must be settled.

 

We have the forwards imo, if they can stay fit and available

 

We don't quite have the quality in wide areas for me though, our players are perfectly decent and work hard but lets be honest, Wallace, Reach, Bannan, they wouldn't get in Brighton's side, nor Newcastle's, not as regular starters anyway.

 

Need to be looking at improving certain areas to get to where those teams were last season,  a genuine winger with pace ( and the confidence to use it ) has to be a priority.

[pwqe]

10 minutes ago, Bob said:

With a couple of quality additions we have the quality to get into the top two.

 

The important bit is the setup and mindset to be positive and not go defensive when we go into the lead.

 

Whether Carlos can do it remains to be seen.

Yep we've got the players to hurt the opposition so let's not be over cautious of them & let them worry about us.

[Holmowl]

4 minutes ago, Lee A said:

 

We have the forwards imo, if they can stay fit and available

 

We don't quite have the quality in wide areas for me though, our players are perfectly decent and work hard but lets be honest, Wallace, Reach, Bannan, they wouldn't get in Brighton's side, nor Newcastle's, not as regular starters anyway.

 

Need to be looking at improving certain areas to get to where those teams were last season,  a genuine winger with pace ( and the confidence to use it ) has to be a priority.

 

If you compare Nando, Wallace and Reach with Knockaert and Murphy, I don't see much difference. 

 

Remember, for over 20 matches we played with only one winger. Abdi and Bannan combined played wide and scored not one single goal between them in that role in half a season.

 

If Nando, Reach and Wallace are our two wingers for 46 games I don't see us falling short of second place. Bear in mind that two ex Prem wingers in Buckley and Macca could not take the shirt off Wallace, for all his modest pace.

[pazowl55]

Think if Carlos can find a way to get Hutchinson, Lee and Bannan into central areas and Forestieri cutting in from the left, without upsetting the balance of the team we will be on to a winner.

[pazowl55]

2 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

 

If you compare Nando, Wallace and Reach with Knockaert and Murphy, I don't see much difference. 

 

Remember, for over 20 matches we played with only one winger. Abdi and Bannan combined played wide and scored not one single goal between them in that role in half a season.

 

If Nando, Reach and Wallace are our two wingers for 46 games I don't see us falling short of second place. Bear in mind that two ex Prem wingers in Buckley and Macca could not take the shirt off Wallace, for all his modest pace.

You don't see much difference between Knockaert and our wingers or am I misunderstanding you.?

[Guest oz_owl]

24 minutes ago, northeastowl said:

It's all well and good comparing us but we play nothing like each other.

 

Yes they are a rigid solid team like us but they attack with a plan.

 

if the early ball is on then it's quickly into the strikers or the channel. If not then they quickly get the ball to the winger who beats his man and whips a cross in to 3 players attacking it. 

 

We have maybe done that in a couple of games this season. We are a slow possession based team that try to break sides down but we don't have the creativity to do it. 

 

Will Carlos change, my opinion is no but most on here seem confident.

 

To be fair the signing of Abdi was meant to be the additional creativity to provide that missing link.

 

The lack of performance from Abdi and Forestieri (regardless of the reasons) was instrumental in us being a more workmanlike and predictable side.

 

Getting those two performing well will be key for us next season, unless we go out and infuse the squad with the pace it's lacking at the moment.

[Tom Moore]

We don't play with wingers, we have wide players who come inside to make a 3 when one of our two splits the centre halves or drops in front to take short passes. 

 

Big difference.

[Lee A]

Just now, Holmowl said:

 

If you compare Nando, Wallace and Reach with Knockaert and Murphy, I don't see much difference. 

 

Knockaert is on a different level altogether compared to Reach and Wallace, but I think the main difference between him and Forestieri is consistency

 

Knockaert does the business nearly every week, you know you're getting 8/10 from him on a crap day,  whereas Forestieri has become a bit of a luxury, 1 in 5 type player, absolutely unplayable on his best days but a bit of a passenger on others.

 

That wasn't the case in his first season with us, so hopefully if he's still here, he can get back to that level.

 

 

 

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

4 minutes ago, pazowl55 said:

Think if Carlos can find a way to get Hutchinson, Lee and Bannan into central areas and Forestieri cutting in from the left, without upsetting the balance of the team we will be on to a winner.

Unless Carlos has a total change of mentality this will never happen.

[Holmowl]

1 minute ago, pazowl55 said:

Think if Carlos can find a way to get Hutchinson, Lee and Bannan into central areas and Forestieri cutting in from the left, without upsetting the balance of the team we will be on to a winner.

 

And yet 442 with two wingers had us at the top of the form table over the final 25 games. It was only the first 20 games, with one winger and 3 CMs, that dragged us down.

 

Why look at 352, 433 or 451 when our 442 really does get us auto form if he plays players in their natural positions? It's proven. Do we want to start a third season under Carlos trialling new systems to gel?

[Holmowl]

3 minutes ago, pazowl55 said:

You don't see much difference between Knockaert and our wingers or am I misunderstanding you.?

 

I see Knockaert (15 goals in 45 from the wing) as a very comparable player to Nando (5 goals in 12 from the wing).

 

I see Wallace and Reach as at least as good as Murphy.

[Holmowl]

4 minutes ago, Lee A said:

 

Knockaert is on a different level altogether compared to Reach and Wallace, but I think the main difference between him and Forestieri is consistency

 

Knockaert does the business nearly every week, you know you're getting 8/10 from him on a crap day,  whereas Forestieri has become a bit of a luxury, 1 in 5 type player, absolutely unplayable on his best days but a bit of a passenger on others.

 

That wasn't the case in his first season with us, so hopefully if he's still here, he can get back to that level.

 

 

 

 

Stick Knockaert up top against the likes of Lees and Loovens every week and see how consistent he would be.

 

However, stick him wide against the likes of Pudil every week and yes, he is largely consistent.

 

Compare his 45/45 games wide to how we use Nando. 

[pazowl55]

6 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

 

And yet 442 with two wingers had us at the top of the form table over the final 25 games. It was only the first 20 games, with one winger and 3 CMs, that dragged us down.

 

Why look at 352, 433 or 451 when our 442 really does get us auto form if he plays players in their natural positions? It's proven. Do we want to start a third season under Carlos trialling new systems to gel?

The reason I say this is because against Huddersfield proved that if they are fit they will all start, no matter what kind of run we have been on so the key is accommodating them in a way that works.

[owl4528]

38 minutes ago, Owling Wolfe said:

Totally agree about Forestieri, he is best when he is running at people from the wings.

Couldn't agree more - he is so effective when doing this and it allows us to play a strong pairing up front between Hooper/Fletcher/Rhodes.

[pazowl55]

Just now, owl4528 said:

Couldn't agree more - he is so effective when doing this and it allows us to play a strong pairing up front between Hooper/Fletcher/Rhodes.

Agree. but the master at this is Knockaert.