Top 10 SWFC Players of the last 10 years (Owlstalk Ratings)

[ruscol85]

8 minutes ago, SiJ said:

How in the blue hell has Lewis McGuigan got onto this list? 

 

Ahead of Bannan and Lee too. 

 

WTF. 

Smaller sample size? To be fair I thought he got a rough ride with Carlos. Was quality 

[SiJ]

1 minute ago, ruscol85 said:

Smaller sample size? To be fair I thought he got a rough ride with Carlos. Was quality 

He might have been quality, but he shouldn't be in this list. 

 

Whatever mathematical equation, formula was used to calculate this needs to reviewed: 

 

 

This is me finding out that McGuigan got in ahead of Lee. 

 

[ruscol85]

1 hour ago, SiJ said:

He might have been quality, but he shouldn't be in this list. 

 

Whatever mathematical equation, formula was used to calculate this needs to reviewed: 

 

 

This is me finding out that McGuigan got in ahead of Lee. 

 

I’d speak to @Emerson Thome about that then

[Emerson Thome]

Ha - it's not really a formula as such, just an average of all the player ratings threads on Owlstalk. So need to speak with the good people of Owlstalk!

 

If this list was up to me Bannan would be first, daylight second and K. Lee in third.

[Emerson Thome]

There is a bit of an issue with taking an average of all games that it is easier to play well for 50 or so games than 250. You'll see that with the players at 1, 2 & 3 I think. As you could easily find a 50-game or so spell that Bannan scored higher than all of them. But his time playing for Monk and Pulis has dragged his score down a bit.

[ruscol85]

58 minutes ago, Emerson Thome said:

There is a bit of an issue with taking an average of all games that it is easier to play well for 50 or so games than 250. You'll see that with the players at 1, 2 & 3 I think. As you could easily find a 50-game or so spell that Bannan scored higher than all of them. But his time playing for Monk and Pulis has dragged his score down a bit.

That’s what I was getting at. You have to draw the line somewhere. It’s just a bit of fun anyway, isn’t it?

[Emerson Thome]

Crashing in at number 3.....

[Emerson Thome]

[Emerson Thome]

Massimo Luongo

 

 

[Emerson Thome]

It feel strange, having just written the entry for Sam Hutchinson in fourth, to be now writing the review of the player bought to replace him for third.

 

While it could be argued Luongo didn’t replace Hutchinson, as Hutch never ended up leaving before Luongo, he did emulate him. They are so similar that Owlstalk rated both their careers at 6.64 (Luongo is in 3rd as his score is 0.0038 higher). Both liked a card and both spent a long spell out of the team injured. But crucially, both made Wednesday play much better as a team when they were in there. And now both will need to be replaced (while they potentially both sign for Reading). Vaulks has big boots to fill.

 

Luongo was a master at anticipation, reading where the ball would drop and always ready to sprint in with a firm tackle. He could play too, with quick feet and the ability to pivot quickly in either direction and buy himself time for a pass.

 

The only disappointment was, for someone who started out as an attacking midfielder, that he didn’t create as much he should have done. Luongo often found himself in good positions, but only scored 4 goals and created 4 more in 57 starts.

 

For his first two seasons at Wednesday he was a peripheral figure, often finding himself on the bench. When he did play, he was well above the level of his teammates. He almost left before the transfer deadline at the beginning of last season, it was perhaps only an injury suffered right at the end of a typically energetic performance at Rotherham that meant he didn’t.

 

But finally in the second half of last season he was able to show us the full Luongo. Upon returning from a red card suspension in January, the team immediately improved with Luongo anchoring the midfield. Certainly compared to the debacles at Sunderland and Shrewsbury that went before.

 

That first game back against Plymouth was rated Luongo’s best performance for Wednesday (9.12 rating). He made more tackles than the rest of our team put together, most interceptions and set up a goal. Further man of the match appearances against Oxford, Charlton and Bolton followed.

 

The team went on a great run and Luongo was at the heart of it. Over the whole season he won most tackles per game in the whole of League One (3.3). Per 90 minutes on the pitch, only 4 players in the whole of the league had a better goal difference than him*.

 

This magic season means Luongo is one of only 5 players to be rated at over 7 by Owlstalk for the course of a whole season in the past 10 years. It has also bumped his overall Owlstalk score up to third in our Top 10 list for the past decade. Welcome to the hall of hame, Massimo Luongo.

 

 

 

*https://fbref.com/en/comps/15/League-One-Stats has the players with the best goal difference in the league. Luongo was +1.11 per 90 minutes, only beaten by Watts (Wigan), Jordan Storey, Morley (Bolton) and the runaway leader..... Sadio Berahino

[DuttyTeabags]

On 13/07/2022 at 12:54, Emerson Thome said:

In this bonus second post, I thought it was worth dwelling on the impact Hutchinson has had in these past 9 seasons. The table at the bottom shows how much better we play with him in the side than without him. A difference of 0.15 points per game might not sound like a lot, but it is the difference between coming 8th and 14th. All down to one player. Over a massive sample of nearly 200 games in both columns. I doubt there are many other players in Wednesday’s history with such a big impact.

 

To illustrate this, the two seasons we’ve managed to get more than 25 league games in a season out of Sam, Wednesday have finished 4th. The season he played 25 games we came 6th. By contrast, the season injuries restricted him to just 7 starts (17/18), Wednesday dropped from 4th to 15th. The moment Garry Monk dropped Hutchinson from the first XI (the famous post-party Boxing Day game at Stoke), we went into freefall from 4th to 16th in half a season. The season we released him, we were 23rd in the league and almost dead and buried by the time he returned (and he still gave us the lead in the winner-takes-all survival game, but it was not to be).

 

So, it is a shame this most impactful player missed so many games. And I know a lot of people will say he was always injured (204 is a lot of games to miss). But, we can break this down slightly – of the 204 there were 90 where he wasn’t injured - on the subs bench (21), frozen out by Jos or Monk (34), or suspended (13). This also includes the 23 games where he left the club entirely to play in Cyprus.

 

So, I think the figure for injuries is more like 113 games (this isn’t an exact science). This works out at around 13 games missed with injury per season over his eight and a half years. And that includes two large chunks:

 

When he first signed for us in 2014, he was still getting over a debilitating knee injury. Otherwise he would most likely have played more games in the Premier League. But it did mean for 30 or so games in the 2014-15 season he was unavailable.

 

Then there was the 2017-18 season, where he fractured his leg, it was misdiagnosed by the Wednesday medical team, he was rushed back into the team and this made the injury worse, then he was rushed back again, and suffered a hernia injury. He missed nearly a whole season. It would be harsh to blame Hutchinson for this – he certainly wasn’t the only player to miss large chunks of football around that time – Kieran Lee, Gary Hooper and Almen Abdi (if he exists) had similar issues.

 

After that his fitness record has improved. Since August 2018, he has only actually missed around 25 games with injury (around 6 per season). Yes, this includes times he was frozen out so couldn't get injured. You could blame Hutchinson for that, but I think bad man management by Jos/Monk was more to blame.

 

Anyway, looking at the impact over the last 9 seasons, we will have a massive hole in the team to fill:

 

Absolute legend. I hope he comes back one day to manage the massive. One of my favorite ever moments of Wednesday in the entire time watching are his last min header away at Brentford where he goes mad, and him stuck in the net against Arsenal grinning like a Cheshire cat.  Sam I salute you.

[DuttyTeabags]

10 hours ago, Emerson Thome said:

It feel strange, having just written the entry for Sam Hutchinson in fourth, to be now writing the review of the player bought to replace him for third.

 

While it could be argued Luongo didn’t replace Hutchinson, as Hutch never ended up leaving before Luongo, he did emulate him. They are so similar that Owlstalk rated both their careers at 6.64 (Luongo is in 3rd as his score is 0.0038 higher). Both liked a card and both spent a long spell out of the team injured. But crucially, both made Wednesday play much better as a team when they were in there. And now both will need to be replaced (while they potentially both sign for Reading). Vaulks has big boots to fill.

 

Luongo was a master at anticipation, reading where the ball would drop and always ready to sprint in with a firm tackle. He could play too, with quick feet and the ability to pivot quickly in either direction and buy himself time for a pass.

 

The only disappointment was, for someone who started out as an attacking midfielder, that he didn’t create as much he should have done. Luongo often found himself in good positions, but only scored 4 goals and created 4 more in 57 starts.

 

For his first two seasons at Wednesday he was a peripheral figure, often finding himself on the bench. When he did play, he was well above the level of his teammates. He almost left before the transfer deadline at the beginning of last season, it was perhaps only an injury suffered right at the end of a typically energetic performance at Rotherham that meant he didn’t.

 

But finally in the second half of last season he was able to show us the full Luongo. Upon returning from a red card suspension in January, the team immediately improved with Luongo anchoring the midfield. Certainly compared to the debacles at Sunderland and Shrewsbury that went before.

 

That first game back against Plymouth was rated Luongo’s best performance for Wednesday (9.12 rating). He made more tackles than the rest of our team put together, most interceptions and set up a goal. Further man of the match appearances against Oxford, Charlton and Bolton followed.

 

The team went on a great run and Luongo was at the heart of it. Over the whole season he won most tackles per game in the whole of League One (3.3). Per 90 minutes on the pitch, only 4 players in the whole of the league had a better goal difference than him*.

 

This magic season means Luongo is one of only 5 players to be rated at over 7 by Owlstalk for the course of a whole season in the past 10 years. It has also bumped his overall Owlstalk score up to third in our Top 10 list for the past decade. Welcome to the hall of hame, Massimo Luongo.

 

 

 

*https://fbref.com/en/comps/15/League-One-Stats has the players with the best goal difference in the league. Luongo was +1.11 per 90 minutes, only beaten by Watts (Wigan), Jordan Storey, Morley (Bolton) and the runaway leader..... Sadio Berahino

Shame he was injured so much as think we would have felt more confident offering him a better deal. Hoping Vaulks steps in and we don't miss Luongo, but I wish him well . Good honest Aussie galah

[mcmigo]

Luongo a very good player when on the park, such a shame about his persistent fitness problems.   A top end championship footballer when on form and fit.

 

[Emerson Thome]

Number 2 might surprise a few people (seeing that hardly anyone in this thread has mentioned him). I don't think he's quite as left-field as Lewis McGugan was, but will post more tomorrow.

[mcmigo]

15 hours ago, Emerson Thome said:

Number 2 might surprise a few people (seeing that hardly anyone in this thread has mentioned him). I don't think he's quite as left-field as Lewis McGugan was, but will post more tomorrow.

Sasso or venacio is my call here

[Emerson Thome]

On 13/06/2022 at 09:05, leftpeg said:

1, Wee Wossy Wallace - loved watching him play for us, a great balance of skillful and shithouse!

2, Barry Bannan - Not just for this season, though it helped.   But has always been committed to the cause for us, we are gonna miss him in a couple of years when he sails off towards retirement.

3, Forestieri - Sure there were issues here, and in the end it soured, but when he had the ball and ran at teams it was for a while the most excitement we have had at Hillsborough since the days of Carbone, Di Canio and Waddle.

4, Kirkland - Absolute baller of a keeper

5, Kieran Lee - Before the injuries robbed us his prime he was often spoke about as the best midfielder outside of the prem, and with good reason, and this was even with the competition he had for that spot!  At Championship level a Rolls Royce of a player who made the entire team better.

6, Michael Hector - One of those Defenders who loves to defend, and could play a sweet ball too.   There is a reason even now many Wednesday fans bring him up every transfer window.

7,  Stephen Fletcher - Again shame about how it ended, but when fit was a pure beast up front.  Premier league class striker with just enough injury problems to stop him showing it.

8, Gary Hooper - See Above, when fit was too good for the championship, but much like Fletcher, could not be relied on to finish a full season.

9, Giles Coke (mainly after the Swindon Loan spell)  - I still remember the excitement around him signing for us, and for a little while he looked to be the midfielder we had been missing and I wondered why we even let him go out on loan.  Still for 6 months he was impressive enough to get a mention.

10, Glenn Loovens - Such a tough call between him, Lees and Pudil for this last spot, but Loovens shades it for me purely by the fact he seemed to be the one pulling the string in that defence.

 

Spotter's badge to @leftpeg, who I think was the only person to mention our number 2 on the list....

 

[Emerson Thome]

 

[Emerson Thome]

Chris Kirkland:

 

[Emerson Thome]

Owlstalk likes a goalkeeper it seems. Over the past 10 years, we’ve had six goalkeepers who have played more than 10 games - Dawson, Kirkland, Martinez, Peacock-Farrell, Westwood and Wildsmith - and all of them have an Owlstalk Rating of over 6.00 (33% of our players these past 10 years have scored below 6).

 

Chris Kirkland was signed by David Jones upon promotion back to the second tier in 2012 and made 90 starts over the course of the next 3 seasons.

 

It seems that most people (judging by the posts further up this thread) rate Keiren Westwood higher, but I will try and make a case for why Kirkland scores marginally higher (it is close - with 0.06 between them).

 

An experienced keeper who played much of his career in the Premier League for Coventry, Liverpool, West Brom and Wigan, Kirkland was a vocal presence, with sharp reflexes and the ability to pull off world class saves. His main weakness was a propensity to concede goals from free kicks.

 

Unlike Kieran Westwood, Kirkland didn’t have a settled or consistent defence to play behind. This perhaps gave him more chances to shine, but also more saves to make. It took him 14 games to keep his first clean sheet, but fans didn’t seem to blame this on Kirkland (Martin Taylor and Daniel Jones got most of the ire).

 

He received the second highest Owlstalk rating for the squad in the 2012/13 season, including 5 man of the match awards (vs Brighton, Watford, Barnsley, Hull and Millwall). For the televised game away at Hull, Kirkland received special plaudits and his career high Owlstalk score (9.39). This match he saved 7 shots, including a penalty, as we secured an unlikely 3-1 win. Kirkland was voted second in the SWFC fans end of season poll behind Lewis Buxton.

 

In his second season at Wednesday, Kirkland faced more competition for his place from Emi (‘Damian’) Martinez, but was still first choice for much of the season. In 36 games, he was voted Man of the Match 10 times. Again, it often seemed this was in adversity – many of his MoM awards came in defeats, including his highest score of the season of 8.93 at the opening day defeat at QPR. Again, he scored highly in the end of season poll, coming in third behind Liam Palmer and Kieran Lee.

 

His third and final season at Wednesday was as understudy to Keiren Westwood. And despite shipping 7 goals at Manchester City, he managed to improve on his Owlstalk average score.

 

So even if Westwood initially came in and played even better than Kirkland (had Westwood’s career had been just 3 seasons like Kirkland, he would be second on this list with a score of 6.73). But Westwood had a long tail of declining performances that dragged his score down to 6.63.

 

And that is one of the reasons Kirkland does so well. He is a rare thing for us in the past decade – a player we sold at the right time. Whereas many of our best players in this list suffered a long decline in the second half of their Wednesday career (I mentioned Westwood, but you could also argue Forestieri, Kieran Lee, Loovens, Wallace, Hutchinson, Pudil all belong in this category).

 

And so, on the basis of a busy keeper being a popular keeper, and one who didn't overstay his welcome, let's inaugurate Chris Kirkland to our Owlstalk hall of fame:

 

[FlyingOwl]

I liked Kirkland 

 

My only quirk with him was how he stood so far off his line for free kicks.