Nick De Marco "Legal action is inevitable"

[Sergeant Tibbs]

On 01/05/2020 at 09:13, @owlstalk said:

What a mess.

This is where big money in football, and the legal action culture has totally taken over now.

Sad sad times.

 

Anyone remember when 'football' as an idea/business used to be fun?
 

Early eighties ?

[scram]

Dunno about the German rules

 

I only know ours

[Dick_Turpin]

Just now, scram said:

Dunno about the German rules

 

I only know ours

Depends whether the rules are bent/interpreted of course! How do supermarkets and the likes of B&Q get round it? 

 

Presumably people working there get symptoms and then self isolate - they may keep social distance at work but they breathe the same air, use the same toilets, doors etc.

 

Genuine question by the way, I'm not being contrary. It's just that our lockdown has been so full of holes. You can't go to work - oh unless you can't work at home. You can't go out - apart from all the loopholes that allow you to go out. 

[scram]

There is no interpretation to be had

 

The rules are very simple

 

Symptomatic = self isolate for 7 days (or until symptoms subside)

 

Close contact = self isolate for 14 days - unless developing symptoms then 7 days from onset of symptoms - or until symptoms subside if longer than 7 days

[DJMortimer]

I think the Government can generally be commended for keeping things relatively straightforward overall. This does appear to be a fundamental strategy of Boris Johnson, who (not without reason) clearly has little faith in the comprehension skills of the public at large and likes his simple slogans, even before this upheaval.

 

Of course there are some blurred edges, but when you consider the sheer scope of what this has done to every corner of society and how it works, they can consider it generally successful. Apart from selfish people who just want to justify their own non-compliance, much of the confusion has come from our shamelessly irresponsible media who have seized on the opportunity to appoint themselves the self-righteous, sanctimonious, attention-seeking and second-guessing judges of everything, whilst often exhibiting no more perception or wit than the first randomer you might encounter coming out of Sainsbury's.

[Dick_Turpin]

14 minutes ago, scram said:

There is no interpretation to be had

 

The rules are very simple

 

Symptomatic = self isolate for 7 days (or until symptoms subside)

 

Close contact = self isolate for 14 days - unless developing symptoms then 7 days from onset of symptoms - or until symptoms subside if longer than 7 days

But what does close contact mean in the context of work?  It's clear for families but employment lawyers say PHE may advise people who have had contact with the employee to self-isolate and it certainly doesn't apply to all employees. .  

 

4. One of our employees has been diagnosed with the coronavirus – what should we do?

The employee will either be treated in hospital or cared for at home.  The employee should not attend work until they have fully recovered and have medical clearance to do so.  

You should notify other staff that a colleague has been diagnosed with the coronavirus, however, you should not usually need to name the individual and you should only disclose necessary information.  

You will be contacted by Public Health England’s local Health Protection Team to identify those who have been in contact with the employee and discuss any special measures to be taken.  This may affect the following staff members:

• anyone who has been in close face-to-face or touching contact;
• anyone who has talked with, or been coughed on, for any length of time while the employee was symptomatic;
• anyone who has cleaned up bodily fluids; and
• close friendship or work groups.

They may advise that anyone who had contact with the affected employee should self-isolate for 14 days and be tested for the virus.   They will advise you how to undertake a deep clean of the premises and how to collect and store any rubbish produced by the affected employee.

Staff who have not had close contact with the affected employee do not need to take any precautions and can continue to work.

 

[Dick_Turpin]

16 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

I think the Government can generally be commended for keeping things relatively straightforward overall. This does appear to be a fundamental strategy of Boris Johnson, who (not without reason) clearly has little faith in the comprehension skills of the public at large and likes his simple slogans, even before this upheaval.

 

Of course there are some blurred edges, but when you consider the sheer scope of what this has done to every corner of society and how it works, they can consider it generally successful. Apart from selfish people who just want to justify their own non-compliance, much of the confusion has come from our shamelessly irresponsible media who have seized on the opportunity to appoint themselves the self-righteous, sanctimonious, attention-seeking and second-guessing judges of everything, whilst often exhibiting no more perception or wit than the first randomer you might encounter coming out of Sainsbury's.

Ah yes - the media's fault!

[Guest mkowl]

18 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

I think the Government can generally be commended for keeping things relatively straightforward overall. This does appear to be a fundamental strategy of Boris Johnson, who (not without reason) clearly has little faith in the comprehension skills of the public at large and likes his simple slogans, even before this upheaval.

 

Of course there are some blurred edges, but when you consider the sheer scope of what this has done to every corner of society and how it works, they can consider it generally successful. Apart from selfish people who just want to justify their own non-compliance, much of the confusion has come from our shamelessly irresponsible media who have seized on the opportunity to appoint themselves the self-righteous, sanctimonious, attention-seeking and second-guessing judges of everything, whilst often exhibiting no more perception or wit than the first randomer you might encounter coming out of Sainsbury's.

 

You should post that in the Dressing Roon Covid thread 

 

It would go down well 

[Dick_Turpin]

3 minutes ago, rickygoo said:

 

 

 

29 minutes ago, scram said:

There is no interpretation to be had

 

The rules are very simple

 

Symptomatic = self isolate for 7 days (or until symptoms subside)

 

Close contact = self isolate for 14 days - unless developing symptoms then 7 days from onset of symptoms - or until symptoms subside if longer than 7 days

 

Does standing next to someone waiting for a corner count as close contact in the context of the regulations? 

[Hookowl]

4 minutes ago, rickygoo said:

But what does close contact mean in the context of work?  It's clear for families but employment lawyers say PHE may advise people who have had contact with the employee to self-isolate and it certainly doesn't apply to all employees. .  

 

4. One of our employees has been diagnosed with the coronavirus – what should we do?

The employee will either be treated in hospital or cared for at home.  The employee should not attend work until they have fully recovered and have medical clearance to do so.  

You should notify other staff that a colleague has been diagnosed with the coronavirus, however, you should not usually need to name the individual and you should only disclose necessary information.  

You will be contacted by Public Health England’s local Health Protection Team to identify those who have been in contact with the employee and discuss any special measures to be taken.  This may affect the following staff members:

• anyone who has been in close face-to-face or touching contact;
• anyone who has talked with, or been coughed on, for any length of time while the employee was symptomatic;
• anyone who has cleaned up bodily fluids; and
• close friendship or work groups.

They may advise that anyone who had contact with the affected employee should self-isolate for 14 days and be tested for the virus.   They will advise you how to undertake a deep clean of the premises and how to collect and store any rubbish produced by the affected employee.

Staff who have not had close contact with the affected employee do not need to take any precautions and can continue to work.

 

That last bit would more than likely effect players who have trained with a player who has been diagnosed, and possibly players from both teams if the diagnosis came after a game.

[DJMortimer]

17 minutes ago, rickygoo said:

Ah yes - the media's fault!

 

For what? The overall situation? Clearly not.

 

But they are often the primary source of information for the public, whose compliance is imperative to the overall strategy, yet they are often not interested in the effect it might be having on some of the less considered out there. They have muddied the waters at every turn with stupid questions, a failure to understand simple concepts, wild speculation, pushing their own agendas, sentiment chasing, trying to make themselves look impressive and deliberately provocative questions of those in real authority. Obviously it's not all bad and there has been much of merit, but too much of it is self-indulgent and unhelpful.

 

It's my own fault. I often just leave BBC News 24 on when I'm working from home so it's not too distracting and I don't have to keep changing channels. After a while I just want to batter the lot of them. Even the fact that almost all of them talk about 'grarfs' and 'starf' instead of 'graphs' and 'staff' can become too infuriating.

 

I need a holiday.

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by DJMortimer

[DJMortimer]

13 minutes ago, mkowl said:

 

You should post that in the Dressing Roon Covid thread 

 

It would go down well 

 

I spend too much time in here as it is. Expanding to the non-SWFC sections, especially the dressing room, would be just too much.

[Dick_Turpin]

3 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

 

For what? The overall situation? Clearly not.

 

But they are often the primary source of information for the public, whose compliance is imperative to the overall strategy, yet they are often not interested in the effect it might be having on some of the less considered out there. They have muddied the waters at every turn with stupid questions, a failure to understand simple concepts, wild speculation, pushing their own agendas, sentiment chasing, trying to make themselves look impressive and deliberately provocative questions of those in real authority. Obviously it's not all bad and there has been much of merit, but too much of it is self-indulgent.

 

It's my own fault. I often just leave BBC News 24 on when I'm working from home so it's not too distracting and I don't have to keep changing channels. After a while I just want to batter the lot of them. Even the fact that almost all of them talk about 'grarfs' and 'starf' instead of 'graphs' and 'staff' can become too infuriating.

 

I need a holiday.

The propaganda dispensing statements, downright lies and the failure to answer direct questions have been much worse. 

[Guest mkowl]

1 hour ago, DJMortimer said:

 

I spend too much time in here as it is. Expanding to the non-SWFC sections, especially the dressing room, would be just too much.

 

It is the biggest thread on here 2200 + pages and counting 

[room0035]

23 hours ago, the third man said:

There isn't any club that is promoted yet, so how may teams could get promoted, impossible to say but there must be loads over the three leagues

 

same goes for relegation, if clubs are relegated based on current positions, again as no one is relegated yet they would have a claim as well

 

if they can get all 72 clubs together with an agreement that it would be a majority decision on what to do with the season then you might avoid legal action, but even then you would get teams who think their vote is more important than another club

 

the other thing is there would only be one court case, because the result of that would be same for everyone, and I cant see how a team could claim to have lost money when nothing has been settled

 

don't know if there is something to cover force majeure in the football league rules, but if there isn't I bet there is in the future 

Why have you only taken a snippet that does not show my full post then completely argued the wrong thing???

[darra]

8 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

No matter what is planned for football's return I can't help but keep returning to the one single point that is if one player tests positive for Covid-19 then the whole of his club has to go into isolation for a couple of weeks

How do you get round that?

Plus, if a club goes on a bad run of results, they could just pull the Covid card and pull out of upcoming remaining games - then what?

 

 

Imagine if that player tests positive and dies God forbid and if that player is a multi million pound player. 

[Dick_Turpin]

8 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

No matter what is planned for football's return I can't help but keep returning to the one single point that is if one player tests positive for Covid-19 then the whole of his club has to go into isolation for a couple of weeks

How do you get round that?

Plus, if a club goes on a bad run of results, they could just pull the Covid card and pull out of upcoming remaining games - then what?

 

 

This new government medical working group may come up with new suggestions or different ways of interpreting the rules.

 

It's not automatic that if someone in a non-footballing workplace gets symptoms that the whole place is shut down. If it was there probably wouldn't be a supermarket in the land open. If football starts using that sort of interpretation - and the Germans who seem pretty poo hot at this sort of thing haven't shut Cologne down for example even though three of their staff - one report said two of them were players  - tested positive.  It depends on what the definition of "close contact" is I guess. 

[Guest Grandad]

3 hours ago, scram said:

 

A new case of CV-19 will mean the player having to self isolate for a minimum of 7 days - whilst close contacts (ie most/all team mates and staff) have to self isolate for 14 days

 

Therefore just one new case will close a club down for 2 weeks minumum

 

And presumably any other team theyve played in the previous 2 weeks

[scram]

3 hours ago, rickygoo said:

But what does close contact mean in the context of work?  It's clear for families but employment lawyers say PHE may advise people who have had contact with the employee to self-isolate and it certainly doesn't apply to all employees. .  

 

4. One of our employees has been diagnosed with the coronavirus – what should we do?

The employee will either be treated in hospital or cared for at home.  The employee should not attend work until they have fully recovered and have medical clearance to do so.  

You should notify other staff that a colleague has been diagnosed with the coronavirus, however, you should not usually need to name the individual and you should only disclose necessary information.  

You will be contacted by Public Health England’s local Health Protection Team to identify those who have been in contact with the employee and discuss any special measures to be taken.  This may affect the following staff members:

• anyone who has been in close face-to-face or touching contact;
• anyone who has talked with, or been coughed on, for any length of time while the employee was symptomatic;
• anyone who has cleaned up bodily fluids; and
• close friendship or work groups.

They may advise that anyone who had contact with the affected employee should self-isolate for 14 days and be tested for the virus.   They will advise you how to undertake a deep clean of the premises and how to collect and store any rubbish produced by the affected employee.

Staff who have not had close contact with the affected employee do not need to take any precautions and can continue to work.

 

 

 

I've already said what the PL protocol is

 

Keep trying to find ways around it if you like - but it's what has been agreed with the govt and the medical working group

 

Also in the heat of a group training session or game because of the heightened respiratory rate and extreme close contact it's inevitable that in a match that all of players involved will have to self isolate if one of the players provides a positive test

[Dick_Turpin]

23 minutes ago, scram said:

 

 

I've already said what the PL protocol is

 

Keep trying to find ways around it if you like - but it's what has been agreed with the govt and the medical working group

 

Also in the heat of a group training session or game because of the heightened respiratory rate and extreme close contact it's inevitable that in a match that all of players involved will have to self isolate if one of the players provides a positive test

 

 

I’m not trying to find a way round it. Football and the Government seem to be trying to find a way round it - and that may mean protocols may change to reflect what happens in other industries or other countries - for example with how the Germans are dealing with the Cologne situation. It’s musing that’s all. 

 

I find myself increasingly surprised that I’m not missing football as much as I thought I would. It seems easier then a close season that can feel like forever. 

 

But the football clubs clubs exist to play football so I can fully understand why they’re trying to work out a route to playing again - “based on the science”! All businesses are doing the same.  It’s probably a forlorn hope that I think the German Government will scupper next week.  

 

It’s a different subject but the problem with hoping football will change is that the clubs that will come out of this fine will be the big clubs. It’s the little clubs that could fold and post corona virus football will be worse rather than better. I acknowledge trying to play matches behind closed doors - which if it is safe to do I actually don’t have a problem with in the short term - won’t help unless the cash was distributed widely, which is incredibly unlikely.