oh_weds_we_love_you Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 8 minutes ago, gurujuan said: We do You’re welcome to that opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazowl55 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 1 minute ago, oh_weds_we_love_you said: Sadly Joao had the same issue Rhodes had at Norwich - struggled to hold down a place on the first team. Difference is, Rhodes’ competition was the best in the league, Joao’s was way off that standard. Rhodes ain't getting in front of Fletcher here any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazowl55 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 5 minutes ago, oh_weds_we_love_you said: I said Rhodes has suffered from playing for defensive managers the last 4 years and he’s been shunted as a lone striker - I don’t recall saying the latter was with us (it was with Boro). The “defensive managers” but covered us. Lees was crap in a back 3. Whether that was down to be asked to do something that he wasn’t good at (see Jordan Rhodes!) or the system, we don’t know, Sharp does, yes. He was still considered washed up before Wilder came to United and he then played to Sharps strengths and bang, fires United to the Premier League from League One. So the reason that United are in the premier league is because they played to sharps strengths. Nothing to do will having a brilliant manager then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh_weds_we_love_you Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 4 hours ago, DJMortimer said: I still maintain that judging strikers in this way is a fool's errand, as typified by the Arsenal career of Dennis Bergkamp, who their supporter's only judged as their second best player ever. It's more legitimate than usual here because Rhodes is so frequently measured by nothing more than his goals return (a reflection of how limited his overall game is). But for what it's worth, these are the minutes per league goal statistics for our forwards in their entire Wednesday career according to whoscored.com... MINUTES PER GOAL Gary Hooper 199.9 Fernando Forestieri 208.2 Lucas Joao 232.9 Steven Fletcher 242.0 Sam Winnall 294.3 Atdhe Nuhiu 316.9 Marco Matias 329.3 Jordan Rhodes 370.9 And whilst I'm at it, we can also look at how much of an impact these players have when it comes to creating scoring chances for others... MINUTES PER ASSIST Gary Hooper 499.8 Atdhe Nuhiu 538.7 Lucas Joao 582.3 Fernando Forestieri 659.4 Steven Fletcher 1,161.4 Sam Winnall 1,177.0 Marco Matias 1,482.0 Jordan Rhodes 1,483.5 "Guarantees goals" TM eh? I think it was established a long time ago that Rhodes has been crap for us. I’m not sure why you still keep using stats from a period of his career when he was grossly mis-managed. Bizarre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, oh_weds_we_love_you said: I said Rhodes has suffered from playing for defensive managers the last 4 years and he’s been shunted as a lone striker - I don’t recall saying the latter was with us (it was with Boro). The “defensive managers” but covered us. Lees was crap in a back 3. Whether that was down to be asked to do something that he wasn’t good at (see Jordan Rhodes!) or the system, we don’t know, Sharp does, yes. He was still considered washed up before Wilder came to United and he then played to Sharps strengths and bang, fires United to the Premier League from League One. I think you underestimate Sharp, he changed his game to fit in with the way Wilder wanted to play. Regarded mainly as a fox in the box type of striker, he added to his game, a desire and ability to run the channels He was also able to drop back into midfield, to link play, a bit like the way Hooper did for us. His ability to adapt, gave him a new lease of life. Were Rhodes to suddenly start doing that, I think he’d get a far easier ride from people on here. People in the main, who wanted him here, and probably feel let down by his performances so far Edited August 1, 2019 by gurujuan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazowl55 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 1 minute ago, gurujuan said: I think you underestimate a Sharp, he changed his game to fit in with the way Wilder wanted to play. Regarded mainly as a fox in the box type of striker, he added to his game, a desire and ability to run the channels He was also able to drop back into midfield, to link play, a bit like the way Hooper did for us. His ability to adapt, gave him a new lease of life. We’re Rhodes to suddenly start doing that, I think he’d get a far easier ride from people on here. People in the main, who wanted him here, and probably feel let down by his performances so far Exactly this its Rhodes that needs to adapt to our style not ours to his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh_weds_we_love_you Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, pazowl55 said: Rhodes ain't getting in front of Fletcher here any time soon. Maybe not. Decent chance of partnering him though. And with Fletcher’s injury record, Rhodes might find he’s on the pitch more than Fletcher. Depends what the new manager wants I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh_weds_we_love_you Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, pazowl55 said: So the reason that United are in the premier league is because they played to sharps strengths. Nothing to do will having a brilliant manager then. A brilliant manager who took the “washed up” Billy Sharp and got him firing what was it, 30 league goals last season. You think Utd would have won promotion without those goals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh_weds_we_love_you Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, pazowl55 said: Exactly this its Rhodes that needs to adapt to our style not ours to his. Yeah, Premier League Norwich have demanded Rhodes changes his game before he joins them as well. Edited August 1, 2019 by oh_weds_we_love_you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 Just now, oh_weds_we_love_you said: I think it was established a long time ago that Rhodes has been crap for us. I’m not sure why you still keep using stats from a period of his career when he was grossly mis-managed. Bizarre. Makes more sense than your emphasis on transfer fees, peering into ancient history (maybe Lee Chapman, Gary Bannister or Terry Curran could still have it) and blaming literally everything else in the universe. Reminds me of that lame old 'joke'... A man is sprinkling a powder all over the streets, when a policeman walks up to him and asks what on earth he is doing. The man replies saying keeping the elephants away of course! It's elephant repellent! The officer replies, don't be absurd, there are no elephants here. The man replies saying then it must be working! 2 minutes ago, oh_weds_we_love_you said: Maybe not. Decent chance of partnering him though. And with Fletcher’s injury record, Rhodes might find he’s on the pitch more than Fletcher. Depends what the new manager wants I guess. I'm guessing immobility, difficulty in staying on his feet and scuffing chances wide aren't high on his list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazowl55 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 Just now, oh_weds_we_love_you said: A brilliant manager who took the “washed up” Billy Sharp and got him firing what was it, 30 league goals last season. You think Utd would have won promotion without those goals? Oh course not but it's all Wilder trust me. He would have got whoever he had banging in the goals. I think you may be in for a disappointment if you think all we have to do is get Rhodes scoring 20 goals and that means premier league. We need a lot more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 1 minute ago, pazowl55 said: Oh course not but it's all Wilder trust me. He would have got whoever he had banging in the goals. I think you may be in for a disappointment if you think all we have to do is get Rhodes scoring 20 goals and that means premier league. We need a lot more than that. Blackburn had him doing precisely that, but it didn't do them much good in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh_weds_we_love_you Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 6 minutes ago, gurujuan said: I think you underestimate Sharp, he changed his game to fit in with the way Wilder wanted to play. Regarded mainly as a fox in the box type of striker, he added to his game, a desire and ability to run the channels He was also able to drop back into midfield, to link play, a bit like the way Hooper did for us. His ability to adapt, gave him a new lease of life. Were Rhodes to suddenly start doing that, I think he’d get a far easier ride from people on here. People in the main, who wanted him here, and probably feel let down by his performances so far Underestimate Sharp? I’ve gone on record to say without his goals Utd wouldn’t have gone up. I never said he was washed up before 2 years ago either. I’ve pointed out Sharp did the square root of FA for 4/5 years before Wilder came along. Sharp was mid-managed in a similar way to Rhodes. I feel more let down that we signed Rhodes for a lot of money, knowing full well what he was all about, yet we played a style that makes him redundant. What a stupid decision! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pazowl55 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, oh_weds_we_love_you said: Yeah, Premier League Norwich have demanded Rhodes changes his game before he joins them as well. If he wants to play the same role for us as he will for them.15 mins from the bench then he dont need to change his game no. You want him as our main lone striker he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh_weds_we_love_you Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, DJMortimer said: Makes more sense than your emphasis on transfer fees, peering into ancient history (maybe Lee Chapman, Gary Bannister or Terry Curran could still have it) and blaming literally everything else in the universe. Reminds me of that lame old 'joke'... A man is sprinkling a powder all over the streets, when a policeman walks up to him and asks what on earth he is doing. The man replies saying keeping the elephants away of course! It's elephant repellent! The officer replies, don't be absurd, there are no elephants here. The man replies saying then it must be working! I'm guessing immobility, difficulty in staying on his feet and scuffing chances wide aren't high on his list. Again, been covered. Aye, Premier League Norwich are looking for exactly those traits in a striker! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh_weds_we_love_you Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, pazowl55 said: Oh course not but it's all Wilder trust me. He would have got whoever he had banging in the goals. I think you may be in for a disappointment if you think all we have to do is get Rhodes scoring 20 goals and that means premier league. We need a lot more than that. No other Utd striker got anywhere near Sharp’s tally. Where did I say we need 20 goals from Rhodes and that’s us up? We need a f*cking manager first before we can even talk about promotion!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, oh_weds_we_love_you said: Again, been covered. ...in fairy dust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, oh_weds_we_love_you said: Underestimate Sharp? I’ve gone on record to say without his goals Utd wouldn’t have gone up. I never said he was washed up before 2 years ago either. I’ve pointed out Sharp did the square root of FA for 4/5 years before Wilder came along. Sharp was mid-managed in a similar way to Rhodes. I feel more let down that we signed Rhodes for a lot of money, knowing full well what he was all about, yet we played a style that makes him redundant. What a stupid decision! Mate, there’s no one who feels more let down than me, that we actually signed him, the biggest waste of money in all my time watching Wednesday. When we were first linked with him, I thought, there’s no way this guy is going to adapt to the modern game, and so it’s proved. However, I would love him to prove me wrong, and if he wants a role model, look no further than Billy Blunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh_weds_we_love_you Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, pazowl55 said: If he wants to play the same role for us as he will for them.15 mins from the bench then he dont need to change his game no. You want him as our main lone striker he does. Where did I say I want Rhodes as our main lone striker? I was us to utilise him properly or f*ck him off for as much as we can get for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh_weds_we_love_you Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 1 minute ago, DJMortimer said: ...in fairy dust. You’re good at ignoring parts of the conversation. Makes for a lame debate though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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