Carlos on BBC Radio 5 live , Thursday 18 Oct at 2100

[Groundhopping Owl]

Can't be bothered to read all the bickering, I just want to contribute that I find it rather funny that he'd prepared for that blow up with the £20 note 

[dorian gray]

17 hours ago, Carbone said:

 

You’re the one who’s fooled if you think we built just because we brought in Abdi/Jones etc. Just because we added players doesn’t mean we built on year 1.

 

Also do you think our tactics against Huddersfield had anything to do with the amount of players we had injured? 

you've 'fooled' yourself by not reading what i'd written. 

'we BUILT a massive stack of highly paid unused players'

we failed against huddersfield because we didn't attack them sufficiently, didn't have a plan b again (see wembley fiasco one year earlier for details) and as you point out coco had more casualties than the 'light brigade' suffered, due to him again, what a clown he was, and a VERY EXPENSIVE ONE FOR US, ONE AS YET WE'VE NOWHERE NEAR FINISHED PAYING FOR. 

[dorian gray]

21 hours ago, fred mciver said:

Wow, the revisionism on here is ridiculous. No one posted against Carlos until after Huddersfield.

 

OK, mega mistakes but he was only Head Coach , not manager, and having your boss blow £14 million on Rhodes who you don't want / need - on advice of a 10 year old and most others on here - can't be easy (as Jos finding with Westy woes).

 

Carlos was was very interesting on modern tactics but let's hope tonight on Sky he gives fresh insights into time with us.

 

Gotta say, Doyen doing a good job for him as radio panel swallowed line that Swansea didn't sack him.

no one posted against carlos as you were all busy singing 'carlos had a dream', i imagine his 'dream' was finding another job with his employment record. one he shouldn't even been considered with, let alone given the job, then allowed to continue unsupervised.

with no manager above him, and decreasing amounts 'english footballing knowledge' available it was a 'field day' for little coco.

carlos was interested in modern TACTIC, as he only had tiptap, including the 20 pass move from the keeper to the halfway line.

as for the panel swallowing the line, the rest of football know differently, another sheffield wednesday won't come along for YOU coco.

one common denominator with coke, money or not he makes a balex of the job.

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, dnhc said:

no one posted against carlos as you were all busy singing 'carlos had a dream', i imagine his 'dream' was finding another job with his employment record. one he shouldn't even been considered with, let alone given the job, then allowed to continue unsupervised.

with no manager above him, and decreasing amounts 'english footballing knowledge' available it was a 'field day' for little coco.

carlos was interested in modern TACTIC, as he only had tiptap, including the 20 pass move from the keeper to the halfway line.

as for the panel swallowing the line, the rest of football know differently, another sheffield wednesday won't come along for YOU coco.

one common denominator with coke, money or not he makes a balex of the job.

 

 

Finished 6th with a budget nowehre near the top 6 in the league. Finished 4th with a budget outside the top 6. Yes he blew it against Huddersfield and should have gone after that in my opinion due to the negative tactics in both legs and not strengthening the team properly in key areas as well as his record of not sticking around at clubs that long. 

He didn't decide the wages of the players we signed though and all this calling him a clown constantly is a bit embarrassing.

[dorian gray]

1 minute ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Finished 6th with a budget nowehre near the top 6 in the league. Finished 4th with a budget outside the top 6. Yes he blew it against Huddersfield and should have gone after that in my opinion due to the negative tactics in both legs and not strengthening the team properly in key areas as well as his record of not sticking around at clubs that long. 

He didn't decide the wages of the players we signed though and all this calling him a clown constantly is a bit embarrassing.

so we spent more money than the last ten wednesday manages had put together, achieved a wembley play off where we didn't turn up, achieved a play off place against a shot shy 'uddersfield side and meekly surrendered to it, beat an arsenal side with a number of reserves in it, and that's worth the money is it?

coke didn't stay anywhere long as when clubs had a depth of footballing knowledge (something we were way short of) he was soon outa the door.

the only bit 'embarrassing' about old coke, is his fans with his piccy on the bedroom wall still trying to 'champion' the clown.

[steveger]

£14 million for Rhodes....

 

Fred the troll, did you work that out using Diane Abbots calculator ?....

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, dnhc said:

so we spent more money than the last ten wednesday manages had put together, achieved a wembley play off where we didn't turn up, achieved a play off place against a shot shy 'uddersfield side and meekly surrendered to it, beat an arsenal side with a number of reserves in it, and that's worth the money is it?

coke didn't stay anywhere long as when clubs had a depth of footballing knowledge (something we were way short of) he was soon outa the door.

the only bit 'embarrassing' about old coke, is his fans with his piccy on the bedroom wall still trying to 'champion' the clown.

 

Dear oh dear!

 

The money spent is relative to what other teams were spending at the time - not even close to a top 6 budget in either season. You can keep blaming him for our current financial plight all you like but that falls on the owners and his advisors who agreed long-term deal on extortionate wages for aging players with deteriorating re-sale value. 

[dorian gray]

6 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Dear oh dear!

 

The money spent is relative to what other teams were spending at the time - not even close to a top 6 budget in either season. You can keep blaming him for our current financial plight all you like but that falls on the owners and his advisors who agreed long-term deal on extortionate wages for aging players with deteriorating re-sale value. 

we have to be careful what we say on the 'whole subject' from what i understand.

i don't in any way whatsoever blame coke for coke's appointment, as i've pointed out before 'don't ask a tramp to hold your chips whilst you nip in a shop'.

yes the well running of an english professional football club was seemingly found lacking, money management (lets say not at it's best), could we perhaps say dc was ill advised at times?

but old 'one idea' shat both play off chances, had a side riddled with injuries for half of his 'tenure', and didn't trust the incoming signings to replace the injured.

once his idea was 'sussed' he'd done, as he'd no plan b, the rest of continental europe aren't wrong, neither were swansea.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, dnhc said:

we have to be careful what we say on the 'whole subject' from what i understand.

i don't in any way whatsoever blame coke for coke's appointment, as i've pointed out before 'don't ask a tramp to hold your chips whilst you nip in a shop'.

yes the well running of an english professional football club was seemingly found lacking, money management (lets say not at it's best), could we perhaps say dc was ill advised at times?

but old 'one idea' shat both play off chances, had a side riddled with injuries for half of his 'tenure', and didn't trust the incoming signings to replace the injured.

once his idea was 'sussed' he'd done, as he'd no plan b, the rest of continental europe aren't wrong, neither were swansea.

 

Swansea were a busted flush before he arrived - he blew it by once again not being attacking enough in the games where they were favourite but they got more points per game under him than they managed before he arrived.

 

You called him an expensive clown that we have nowhere near finished paying for - he didn't contract the players on high wages to long contracts - it is not down to him. Carlos is clearly a hit or bust manager by his record - 2 seasons max - so why give the aging players (that he may or may not have wanted in terms of a few of them) contracts longer than he was likely to be here for and which players are you looking at specifically in terms of this anyway? 

[dorian gray]

9 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Swansea were a busted flush before he arrived - he blew it by once again not being attacking enough in the games where they were favourite but they got more points per game under him than they managed before he arrived.

 

You called him an expensive clown that we have nowhere near finished paying for - he didn't contract the players on high wages to long contracts - it is not down to him. Carlos is clearly a hit or bust manager by his record - 2 seasons max - so why give the aging players (that he may or may not have wanted in terms of a few of them) contracts longer than he was likely to be here for and which players are you looking at specifically in terms of this anyway? 

i don't for one minute think coke entered any football club with the 'intent' of being out in a year or so.

i think he was so full and sure of himself, he fancied his chances of being a success at one, sooner rather than later.

wednesday at the time were seriously lacking in english championship knowledge, and indeed footballing knowledge in general.

no one was appointed (as was the original idea) to oversee 'old one idea', and he was given free rein.

whilst the business side obviously wasn't his, the squad, team, fitness, and TACTIC were.

Edited October 20, 2018 by dnhc
cc

[Lord Snooty]

39 minutes ago, steveger said:

£14 million for Rhodes....

 

Fred the troll, did you work that out using Diane Abbots calculator ?....

 

 

I disgreee with Fred on many things.

But you have to say that that is a transfer that has really hampered us with the FFP.

 

I doubt we've paid anywhere near £14m transfer fee.

But  break down the deal and add up all the little bits you add it all all up you're heading towards  £20m overall.

 

 

Take a more realistic £8m -  as the starting point. 

For a start add 20% standard rate VAT payable on all domestic transfers (but not on deals between EU countries which is probably why so many clubs do their shipping abroad).

And then you have to add the Football League transfer levy of 5% .

 

So you are already up to £10.5m before the ink is dry.

 

Then there is the signing on fee. If a player doesn’t ask for a transfer then he is entitled to a slice of the action, which is usually around the 10% mark .

So that is up to £11.5m before a ball is kicked.

 

Then there are clauses and bonuses that are built into the deal.

 

Maybe a promotion bonus of £1m and other performance triggered payments, top flight survival if we do go up, of up to another £1m .

So that is £13.5m before you even consider wages.

 

The usual formula (not an exact science but we know from previously released details is a decent rule of thumb) is that whatever the fee is, project that again over the life of the contract.

So a £1m player could expect £1m over four years, or £250,000 a year, or £5,000 a week. Give or take.

 

A £4m player like Abdi would expect £4m over four years, or £1m a year, or £20,000 a week. Give or take.

 

An £8m player you can double that again to £2m a year or £40,000 a week, give or take.

 

So let’s assume Jordan , a £8m-ish player is on £40,000 a week. (Im over egging the pudding to simplify the maths) Over four years... that is £8.32m .

 

Then we have to remember that Sheffield Wednesday is a business and our players are  employees.

So Wednesday have to pay 13% national insurance contributions on that wage packet. Thatd be £1,069,900 on top of the basic cost.

So totting up.... A wage commitment of £9,389,900 over four years . Give or take-  these are only estimates to give an example.

 

Add that to the £11.5m basic cost of the transfer before a ball was kicked and we have a total of £20, 889,900 . Give or take.