oldishowl Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 I haven't seen enough of teams playing 3 at the back to know what the centre halfs need to do differently. But if we were all fit I would like to see how a three of Hutch on the right Lees in the middle Van Aken on the left would work. If you need more of a footballer in the middle, swap Hutch and Lees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted December 16, 2017 Author Share Posted December 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, oldishowl said: I haven't seen enough of teams playing 3 at the back to know what the centre halfs need to do differently. But if we were all fit I would like to see how a three of Hutch on the right Lees in the middle Van Aken on the left would work. If you need more of a footballer in the middle, swap Hutch and Lees For what's it's worth I think Hutchinson would be absolutely ideal as right sided centre half in a 3. Never see it of course, but like to see it at least attempted. Or at least....something! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The only way is S6 Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 I'm past annoyed & frustrated now. We aren't playing well, & haven't been for a while. Ironically, the tempo last night might have beaten weaker sides. Just not them. It's a case of worried now. The rot has set in. Hooper is rollicking those around him. Fox was happy to get sent off. Wallace hasn't offered anything for months. Leadership comes from the top. DC can see the table. This is all his investment, his project & the financial rewards are drying up. My only faith now is in his common sense. I'll not stop going, because it's getting interesting now, to see what it's going to take to force his hand. It's clearly not working at the moment. The buck stops with DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatter Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 4 hours ago, Lord Snooty said: Nuhui Rhodes Hooper Reach Jones Butterfield Palmer Fox Van Aken Loovens Wildsmith Joao Rhodes Hooper Reach Jones Butterfield Palmer Fox Van Aken Loovens Wildsmith Nuhui Joao Hooper Reach Jones Butterfield Palmer Pudil Van Aken Loovens Wildsmith Nuhui Rhodes Hooper Reach Jones Butterfield Palmer Fox Van Aken Loovens Wildsmith Hooper Rhodes Abdi Reach Jones Butterfield Palmer Pudil Loovens Venâncio Wildsmith Hooper Rhodes Abdi Reach Jones Butterfield Palmer Pudil Venâncio Loovens Wildsmith Hooper Joao Walllace Fox Jones Butterfield Palmer Pudil Van Aken Venânci Wildsmith Hooper Joao Matias Fox Jones Butterfield Palmer Pudil Van Aken Venâncio Wildsmith Hooper Nuhiu Fox Reach Butterfield Palmer Jones Van Aken Loovens Venâncio Wildsmith Hooper Nuhiu Fox Abdi Butterfield Palmer Jones Van Aken Loovens Venâncio Wildsmith Hooper Rhodes Fox Abdi Butterfield Palmer Jones Van Aken Loovens Venâncio Wildsmith Hooper Nuhiu Reach Jones Butterfield Palmer Van Aken Fox Loovens Venâncio Wildsmith Hooper Nuhiu Reach Jones Abdi Palmer Butterfield Fox Loovens Venâncio Wildsmith Hooper Rhodes Wallace Reach Jones Butterfield Matias Fox Van Aken Loovens Wildsmith Hooper Nuhiu Reach Wallace Jones Butterfield Matias Van Aken Loovens Venâncio Wildsmith Hooper Nuhiu Joao Reach Jones Butterfield Matias Van Aken Loovens Venâncio Wildsmith Nuhiu Hooper Abdi Reach Jones Butterfield Matias Van Aken Loovens Venâncio Wildsmith Joao Hooper Matias Reach Jones Butterfield Palmer Pudil Van Aken Loovens Wildsmith There's many more. I don't have the patience to type them all... Loads of ways of lining those players up. Different players bringing different qualities to the role. You can play all put wingers in the wide spots like Venables did with Anderton and McManaman. Or you can put fit up and downers in. Like Reach. You could put more defensive minds wide players in like Fox or a Pudil. You can Abdi in a free roll trying to find the slide rule pass, or Hooper feeding off the front pair. You could even stick Matias or Wallace in there and tell them to run at folks down the middle from deep. Or you can play with Jones sat off. Mopping things up. Or even Butterfield as as a deep lying ball player. Or maybe Van Aken with his pinged long passes. You can make any combination of front players. A two, or even a three. One playing off the others. There's almost limitless combinations. We could try a different combination in 46 games.... Its the fact we haven't even looked at it.... apparently .because our 4-4-2 has been working so well and we've just had rotten luck.... Thnks Snooty. I was pointing out that most of thise posting about 3-5-2 had not thought it through sufficiently to put names to position. Your first is probably the best option with what was availble last night but is still soft in the centre of midfield and suspect as a back three. Unless/ until we get the likes of Hunt, Lees Hutchinson Forestieri back to add strength and pace I don't believe we would make a better job of beatiing the likes of Wolves by adopting 3-5-2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 39 minutes ago, Lord Snooty said: For what's it's worth I think Hutchinson would be absolutely ideal as right sided centre half in a 3. Never see it of course, but like to see it at least attempted. Or at least....something! Yes I could see it working with Hutch, and definitely if we want more than a handful of matches from him he is better at the back than CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted December 16, 2017 Author Share Posted December 16, 2017 5 minutes ago, Blatter said: Thnks Snooty. I was pointing out that most of thise posting about 3-5-2 had not thought it through sufficiently to put names to position. Your first is probably the best option with what was availble last night but is still soft in the centre of midfield and suspect as a back three. Unless/ until we get the likes of Hunt, Lees Hutchinson Forestieri back to add strength and pace I don't believe we would make a better job of beatiing the likes of Wolves by adopting 3-5-2 Thing is at the moment...I'm not sure how I see us beating anyone. But that's the thing isn't it... When you see problems.....its man's inquisitive mind that looks for solutions. It's instinct. "Somethings not right. Let's have a look at what we can do about it" Even bad ideas are worth having because at least you can then rule them out. And yet. ... Our pro coaches...not only don't seem to be looking for solutions but fail to see the issues in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted December 16, 2017 Author Share Posted December 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, Holmowl said: Yes I could see it working with Hutch, and definitely if we want more than a handful of matches from him he is better at the back than CM. That's been another glaring thing. Since the beginning of last season when Loovens Wass out after his OP and Hutch played at the back our lack of bite in midfield was absolutely blinding. And still it wasn't addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatter Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 Just now, Lord Snooty said: Thing is at the moment...I'm not sure how I see us beating anyone. But that's the thing isn't it... When you see problems.....its man's inquisitive mind that looks for solutions. It's instinct. "Somethings not right. Let's have a look at what we can do about it" Even bad ideas are worth having because at least you can then rule them out. And yet. ... Our pro coaches...not only don't seem to be looking for solutions but fail to see the issues in the first place. Agreed I was particularly disappointed with our unimaginative approach to set pieces too The thinking seemed to stop at.Lets lob it into the middle and hope. The way we are playing a set piece goal might be the only way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myHero Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 14 hours ago, Lord Snooty said: .... with the 4-2-3-1 and it worked till they conceded, it was worth trying because they cant keep doing the same things. But for me, the squad is unbalanced....what would I do?....I think he needs to tinker and find a way. With the players they have I'd go 3 at the back, pack midfield and it means they can keep the two up front which they need to do" Keith Andrews Now....If a pundit who's only seen us a handful of times this season can so quickly reach that conclusion...then why can't our coaching staff who have seen us over the last 80 odd games and see the players in training every single day? They've got a siege mentality going on down at Hillsborough. ..and not in a good way. Not in an Alex Ferguson way. They've got it in a tunnel vision way. 'This is how we do things and we're going to keep chipping away at it.' I can understand it, it can happen when you're under pressure. But it's not doing us any favours. -----*-------*-------- When you think you know it all in this game you're in trouble. I'm 60 and I still learn new things everyday. Sometimes I learn things I already knew but jad forgotten! Sir Bobby Robson (RIP) There's nothing wrong with holding your hands up now and again and saying you've made a cockup. That you've made mistakes but you're learning from them and going to amend them. In fact sometimes people will give you more time for your honesty. But there seems to be none of this attitude at Hillsborough of late. Quite the opposite in fact. I consider myself one of footballs optimists. ..but if results go against us this afternoon we could find ourselves just 8 points above the drop zone. And whilst I think there are far worse sides than us in this division, and whilst I don't think we will drop in there...it should if nothing else blare out as a hazard warning that things are not going well. That something needs doing, either tactically, in terms of formation or even in the type of attitude and intensity of match days or training. For what it's worth, I agree with Carlos that we've had some terrible decisions against us. I agree we've been crippled by injury. But you have to work in those situations and find solutions. So that poo ref's and linos decisions don't cost you. So that if players are injured you create a system that works well for their replacements. I'm seriously worried about the on pitch stagnation. I'm also worried about the desire. When I played if you lost the ball you were expected to break your goads getting back to retrieve the situation. Our players walk back. Jog back. That is as massive concern in mental strength and desire. The mental strength to push yourself to push that sprint back until you're lungs burn. To find that extra yard even when you think it's not there. I'm not seeing that. And to me that is the absolute fundamental thing in the game. The desire to never give up a lost cause. To always try and get back even when all looks lost. Too many players going to ground rather than jockeying and then making no effort to get up quickly and get back in if the man skips past. And I'm not saying it's because they don't care. But I think we have too many easy-oasy laid back characters. I want some with the mist of anger and hurt in their eyes. Players who are personally offended when they get beaten by a winger. Who take it as an affront to their name if someone beats them to a 50/50. It's as important as any technical ability in my eyes. The coaching staff must also take some of the load for that too. When I was playing, if I lost the ball and jogged casually back rather than set off 100mph in pursuit to make up for my error my manager would have been chasing me down the touchline telling me to pull my finger out. And then he'd have done it again in the dressing room after the game. And then he'd have probably had me in the next day doing 10x 100m shuttle runs until he thought the message had sunk in. .......I don't think that's happening. Because if it was ...they wouldn't still be doing it. You learn quickly. "'Have the desire...push yourself. ..and if you don't. ..I'll push you till you do....and if you still don't. ..you'll be out" I don't think we'll go down. I don't think we'll go up. But I want to see some change. Not just the manager. Because even now, I'd love him to turn it around. But there's lots need doing. Not just signing a beast in the middle and an attacker with pace. But things which could be changed tomorrow. Attitude. Application. Formation. Set pieces. Little things that can turn a loss to a draw and a draw to a win, even without getting the cheque book out. I just fear it won't happen. The shutters , sadly are down, and the staff in the bunker are just hoping to ride the season out. But you can't progress like that. Sometimes you have to open the bunker door, get out there and get dirty. Roll up your sleeves , admit something different needs doing and bloody well do it. Well said. We score nothing from Setpieces. Rhodes looked whiley enough to win Set pieces last night. He even looked like he was going to get their centre half sent off. We should use his ability in that area. There was more passion and aggression last night, but players like Morgan Fox showed they don't have it. All we ask is the current players show commitment and work rate at the very least. For the money they are on, even the reserves, that is the very least they can offer. Any thing less is theft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bark1062 Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, Woodie said: I’d tend to agree but the fact we don’t have 2 decent centre half’s never mind 3 makes it impossible in my eyes. Not having 2 decent centre half’s is more reason to play 3, also gives extra protection from midfield with a holding player sat in front when needed, this will allow 2 other central players to support the front 2 more, or you can go the other way with a player in behind the front 2 and 2 sitting central midfielders. Either way would suit us better than 442. We are to lightweight in midfield with 442. Edited December 16, 2017 by Bark1062 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owls_wawaw Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 15 hours ago, WatfordOwl said: Everyone will scream til they are blue in the face about having 3 at the back but it will never happen under CC. Cannot see the wood for the trees at the moment. It's ridiculous he can't try this, struggling for quality defenders but an abundance of midfield players, makes sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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