" he's tried to do something different tonight...

[Lord Snooty]

.... with the 4-2-3-1 and it worked till they conceded, it was worth trying because they cant keep doing the same things. But for me, the squad is unbalanced....what would I do?....I think he needs to tinker and find a way. With the players they have I'd go 3 at the back, pack midfield and it means they can keep the two up front which they need to do"

Keith Andrews

 

 

Now....If a pundit who's only seen us a handful of times this season can so quickly reach that conclusion...then why can't our coaching staff who have seen us over the last 80 odd games and see the players in training every single day?

 

They've got a siege mentality going on down at Hillsborough. ..and not in a good way. Not in an Alex Ferguson way.

They've got it in a tunnel vision way. 'This is how we do things and we're going to keep chipping away at it.'

I can understand it, it can happen when you're under pressure.

But it's not doing us any favours.

 

-----*-------*--------

 

When you think you know it all in this game you're in trouble. I'm 60 and I still learn new things everyday. Sometimes I learn things I already knew but jad forgotten!

Sir Bobby Robson (RIP)

 

There's nothing wrong with holding your hands up now and again and saying you've made a cockup. That you've made mistakes but you're learning from them and going to amend them. In fact sometimes people will give you more time for your honesty. 

But there seems to be none of this attitude at Hillsborough of late. 

Quite the opposite in fact. 

 

I consider myself one of footballs optimists. ..but if results go against us this afternoon we could find ourselves just 8 points above the drop zone.

And whilst I think there are far worse sides than us in this division, and whilst I don't think we will drop in there...it should if nothing else blare out as a hazard warning that things are not going well.

 

 

That something needs doing,  either tactically, in terms of formation or even in the type of attitude and intensity of match days or training.

 

For what it's worth, I agree with Carlos that we've had some terrible decisions against us.  

I agree we've been crippled by injury. 

 

But you have to work in those situations and find solutions. So that poo ref's and linos decisions don't cost you.

So that if players are injured you create a system that works well for their replacements. 

 

I'm seriously worried about the on pitch stagnation.

I'm also worried about the desire. 

When I played if you lost the ball you were expected to break your goads getting back to retrieve the situation. 

Our players walk back.  Jog back. 

That is as massive concern in mental strength and desire. 

The mental strength to push yourself to push that sprint back until you're lungs burn. To find that extra yard even when you think it's not there. 

I'm not seeing that. And to me that is the absolute fundamental thing in the game. The desire to never give up a lost cause. To always try and get back even when all looks lost. 

 

Too many players going to ground rather than jockeying and then making no effort to get up quickly and get back in if the man skips past.

And I'm not saying it's because they don't care. 

But I think we have too many easy-oasy laid back characters. 

I want some with the mist of anger and hurt in their eyes. 

Players who are personally offended when they get beaten by a winger.

Who take it as an affront to their name if someone beats them to a 50/50.

It's as important as any technical ability in my eyes.

 

 

The coaching staff must also take some of the load for that too.

When I was playing,  if I lost the ball and jogged casually back rather than set off 100mph in pursuit to make up for my error my manager would have been chasing me down the touchline telling me to pull my finger out.

And then he'd have done it again in the dressing room after the game.

And then he'd have probably had me in the next day doing 10x 100m shuttle runs until he thought the message had sunk in.

 

.......I don't think that's happening. Because if it was ...they wouldn't still be doing it. 

You learn quickly. "'Have the desire...push yourself. ..and if you don't. ..I'll push you till you do....and if you still don't. ..you'll be out"

 

I don't think we'll go down.

I don't think we'll go up.

 

But I want to see some change. 

Not just the manager. Because even now, I'd love him to turn it around.

But there's lots need doing. 

Not just signing a beast in the middle and an attacker with pace.

But things which could be changed tomorrow.

Attitude. Application.  Formation.  Set pieces.

Little things that can turn a loss to a draw and a draw to a win, even without getting the cheque book out.

 

I just fear it won't happen. The shutters , sadly are down, and the staff in the bunker are just hoping to ride the season out. 

But you can't progress like that. 

Sometimes you have to open the bunker door,  get out there and get dirty. Roll up your sleeves , admit something different needs doing and bloody well do it.

Edited December 16, 2017 by Lord Snooty
Typo

[ash60s]

well said M'Lord - a change is gonna come, somewhere and somehow - it has to!!!

[WatfordOwl]

Everyone will scream til they are blue in the face about having 3 at the back but it will never happen under CC.

 

Cannot see the wood for the trees at the moment.

[Mr Farrell]

Never known a side offer so few shots on goal.

 

Carlos even tried to say tonight that if the ball goes near the goal it's as good as a shot on goal.

 

Scary.

[Lord Snooty]

27 minutes ago, WatfordOwl said:

Everyone will scream til they are blue in the face about having 3 at the back but it will never happen under CC.

 

Cannot see the wood for the trees at the moment.

 

Exactly.  Siege mentality. 

Problem is the more things go against us the more disconsolate the crowd becomes the more withdrawn he looks like becoming in his thinking. 

 

An ever decreasing circle of positivity both on the park, in the stands and in the dug out. 

[WatfordOwl]

49 minutes ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

Exactly.  Siege mentality. 

Problem is the more things go against us the more disconsolate the crowd becomes the more withdrawn he looks like becoming in his thinking. 

 

An ever decreasing circle of positivity both on the park, in the stands and in the dug out. 

The only inevitable conclusion is that it will get so poor that the number of fans not attending forces DC's hand.

 

One thing that irritates me about it all is the seeming lack of leadership on the pitch that we have, and I'm not sure whether that's just how the modern game is or whether we don't have enough 'character's' within the club to pull everyone together..............it's all too nice.

 

Nice guys often finish last and we are heading in that direction quickly.

 

DC may be holding onto the reins of the club and doing his best given his lack of knowledge of the game to get things moving in the right direction but where is the voice coming from to tell him if we don't have something that can sell itself on the pitch that it's all pointless?

 

Not one of us as fans want to see a manager be sacked - especially one that has given us a lot to be proud about in 3 years.

 

I would love to see CC turn this around because I believe he's fallen in love with the club as much as we did with him for the first 18 months of his tenure............as it is, I think the balance of good v bad is about level at the moment and the momentum is not in his favor.

[Bark1062]

There’s been plenty of us on here saying for long enough 352 is how we should be playing to get the best from our players, it’s the formation that would suit them, not shoe horning them into a system that  quite obviously doesn’t suit them.

 

Simple coaching basics! 

[Bark1062]

49 minutes ago, WatfordOwl said:

The only inevitable conclusion is that it will get so poor that the number of fans not attending forces DC's hand.

 

One thing that irritates me about it all is the seeming lack of leadership on the pitch that we have, and I'm not sure whether that's just how the modern game is or whether we don't have enough 'character's' within the club to pull everyone together..............it's all too nice.

 

Nice guys often finish last and we are heading in that direction quickly.

 

DC may be holding onto the reins of the club and doing his best given his lack of knowledge of the game to get things moving in the right direction but where is the voice coming from to tell him if we don't have something that can sell itself on the pitch that it's all pointless?

 

Not one of us as fans want to see a manager be sacked - especially one that has given us a lot to be proud about in 3 years.

 

I would love to see CC turn this around because I believe he's fallen in love with the club as much as we did with him for the first 18 months of his tenure............as it is, I think the balance of good v bad is about level at the moment and the momentum is not in his favor.

Don’t fool yourself he’s not in love with the club, it’s a job! 

[Blue and white]

Let's hope he does something different and stick to his word for once.

Carlos you said you would walk if you lost the fans,you lost the fans weeks ago now close the door on your way out.

[mcmigo]

We have a massive problem going forwards and it is relatively clear as to what the issue is.

 

The opposition defences have worked out a great way of playing against us. They push us up the pitch knowing that rhodes and hooper, or fletcher if he plays, aren’t quick enough to run onto any through or over balls. If striker one wins a flick on from a long ball, striker 2 won’t get a chance because he is still 30 yards out and not quick enough to run on. At best hooper will get onto the flick, spin and feed out wide.

 

As an added bonus, none of the centre mid players can run onto anything either. That leaves only the wingers to worry about if you play a high line against us. Wallace I don’t worry about as a full back as the only risk is that he comes inside and smacks one. So easy to show him outside each time.  That leaves just reach as having any potential threat. Squeeze tight on him and you have basically got us cracked.

the high line also means that our midfield is forced back as well, hence you had jones and butterfield playing so far back leaving the forwards not just isolated but very deep as well.  

We need to sell rhodes sadly and try and find a kid who is whip quick and move the team up the pitch. Otherwise we are in, and I hate to say this, relegation trouble. 

[horny owl]

Carlos won't change anything

 

And hopefully some of you will wake up and see that he's not just some 'nice bloke'

 

He's a rubbish manager who's denials and constant lieing are dragging our club down

 

The sooner he's hounded out the better

 

[kingsidney]

So to summerize...whatever he tries he still isn’t good enough. 

[brando]

6 hours ago, Lord Snooty said:

.... with the 4-2-3-1 and it worked till they conceded, it was worth trying because they cant keep doing the same things. But for me, the squad is unbalanced....what would I do?....I think he needs to tinker and find a way. With the players they have I'd go 3 at the back, pack midfield and it means they can keep the two up front which they need to do"

Keith Andrews

 

 

Now....If a pundit who's only seen us a handful of times this season can so quickly reach that conclusion...then why can't our coaching staff who have seen us over the last 80 odd games and see the players in training every single day?

 

They've got a siege mentality going on down at Hillsborough. ..and not in a good way. Not in an Alex Ferguson way.

They've got it in a tunnel vision way. 'This is how we do things and we're going to keep chipping away at it.'

I can understand it, it can happen when you're under pressure.

But it's not doing us any favours.

 

-----*-------*--------

 

When you think you know it all in this game you're in trouble. I'm 60 and I still learn new things everyday. Sometimes I learn things I already knew but jad forgotten!

Sir Bobby Robson (RIP)

 

There's nothing wrong with holding your hands up now and again and saying you've made a cockup. That you've made mistakes but you're learning from them and going to amend them. In fact sometimes people will give you more time for your honesty. 

But there seems to be none of this attitude at Hillsborough of late. 

Quite the opposite in fact. 

 

I consider myself one of footballs optimists. ..but if results go against us this afternoon we could find ourselves just 8 points above the drop zone.

And whilst I think there are far worse sides than us in this division, and whilst I don't think we will drop in there...it should if nothing else blare out as a hazard warning that things are not going well.

 

 

That something needs doing,  either tactically, in terms of formation or even in the type of attitude and intensity of match days or training.

 

For what it's worth, I agree with Carlos that we've had some terrible decisions against us.  

I agree we've been crippled by injury. 

 

But you have to work in those situations and find solutions. So that poo ref's and linos decisions don't cost you.

So that if players are injured you create a system that works well for their replacements. 

 

I'm seriously worried about the on pitch stagnation.

I'm also worried about the desire. 

When I played if you lost the ball you were expected to break your goads getting back to retrieve the situation. 

Our players walk back.  Jog back. 

That is as massive concern in mental strength and desire. 

The mental strength to push yourself to push that sprint back until you're lungs burn. To find that extra yard even when you think it's not there. 

I'm not seeing that. And to me that is the absolute fundamental thing in the game. The desire to never give up a lost cause. To always try and get back even when all looks lost. 

 

Too many players going to ground rather than jockeying and then making no effort to get up quickly and get back in if the man skips past.

And I'm not saying it's because they don't care. 

But I think we have too many easy-oasy laid back characters. 

I want some with the mist of anger and hurt in their eyes. 

Players who are personally offended when they get beaten by a winger.

Who take it as an affront to their name if someone beats them to a 50/50.

It's as important as any technical ability in my eyes.

 

 

The coaching staff must also take some of the load for that too.

When I was playing,  if I lost the ball and jogged casually back rather than set off 100mph in pursuit to make up for my error my manager would have been chasing me down the touchline telling me to pull my finger out.

And then he'd have done it again in the dressing room after the game.

And then he'd have probably had me in the next day doing 10x 100m shuttle runs until he thought the message had sunk in.

 

.......I don't think that's happening. Because if it was ...they wouldn't still be doing it. 

You learn quickly. "'Have the desire...push yourself. ..and if you don't. ..I'll push you till you do....and if you still don't. ..you'll be out"

 

I don't think we'll go down.

I don't think we'll go up.

 

But I want to see some change. 

Not just the manager. Because even now, I'd love him to turn it around.

But there's lots need doing. 

Not just signing a beast in the middle and an attacker with pace.

But things which could be changed tomorrow.

Attitude. Application.  Formation.  Set pieces.

Little things that can turn a loss to a draw and a draw to a win, even without getting the cheque book out.

 

I just fear it won't happen. The shutters , sadly are down, and the staff in the bunker are just hoping to ride the season out. 

But you can't progress like that. 

Sometimes you have to open the bunker door,  get out there and get dirty. Roll up your sleeves , admit something different needs doing and bloody well do it.

true,true,true CC aint good enuff for our club got to go ...today!!!!

[Animis]

4 hours ago, WatfordOwl said:

The only inevitable conclusion is that it will get so poor that the number of fans not attending forces DC's hand.

 

One thing that irritates me about it all is the seeming lack of leadership on the pitch that we have, and I'm not sure whether that's just how the modern game is or whether we don't have enough 'character's' within the club to pull everyone together..............it's all too nice.

 

Nice guys often finish last and we are heading in that direction quickly.

 

DC may be holding onto the reins of the club and doing his best given his lack of knowledge of the game to get things moving in the right direction but where is the voice coming from to tell him if we don't have something that can sell itself on the pitch that it's all pointless?

 

Not one of us as fans want to see a manager be sacked - especially one that has given us a lot to be proud about in 3 years.

 

I would love to see CC turn this around because I believe he's fallen in love with the club as much as we did with him for the first 18 months of his tenure............as it is, I think the balance of good v bad is about level at the moment and the momentum is not in his favor.

 

The lack of leadership is a good point. We don't seem to talk, and the team cohesion seems to be lacking. An example last night when Palmer got scythed for not kicking the ball out - no Wednesday player ran over to confront their player - Palmer got up and started to have an apologetic conversation with the assailant.  It was almost as if the players couldn't be arse to protect one of their own.

[Ian_D]

I bet that was a good opening post but just too long for me to bother reading it.  My attention span is getting like my support for this team, fading away. Just being honest, neg away if you must.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, ash60s said:

well said M'Lord - a change is gonna come, somewhere and somehow - it has to!!!

I've no doubt it will. But that damage will have already been done which will probably put us back at least 3/4 years maybe longer who knows. We have an inept manager and an inexperfinced in football terms owner. Aging Players on ridiculously high and long contracts who are just pension building.  No commitment or loyalty from 75% of them. Hardly any saleable assets. A sodding mess. I would question CC's loyalty considering his track record. They have found an owner who to a degree as bottomless ;pockets, not afraid to pay ridiculous wages and now something will happen thats for sure. DC's toy is well and truly f**ked

[Mrmason69]

There wasn't anything different whatsoever about last night's performance. 

It was totally devoid of any creativity. There's wasn't an ounce of skill on that pitch from wednesday. They didn't put in a single killer ball. 

It was the same hit and hope football that has typified wednesdays style since Wembley against Hull. 

Last night wednesday just aimlessly hit the ball in regardless of anyone being in the box to receive it. 

It was complete dross. Changing the formation is irrelevant if the style of play doesn't change.

Something else that hadn't change was cc inexplicable use of subs. Once again he only used two. 

Why? 

Last night was the standard cc version of football that Wednesday churn out every match. 

That's a game devoid of skill, creativity, subtlety and enthusiasm. 

Wednesday are consistently dire. Their whole demeanour wreaks of relegation. 

[archieswfc]

6 hours ago, Mr Farrell said:

Never known a side offer so few shots on goal.

 

Carlos even tried to say tonight that if the ball goes near the goal it's as good as a shot on goal.

 

Scary.

Even scarier, DC seems to buy into CC's bu115hit after every game.

[RichSheffWeds]

1 hour ago, kingsidney said:

So to summerize...whatever he tries he still isn’t good enough. 

 

Going 3-5-2 might give him a chance (very small) of turning it around.

 

Everyone can see he should have tried it when it was clear other teams had found us out.

 

But Carlos is one stubborn fool.

[roundhayowl]

The only difference last night wad that Bannan didn't fancy it so called in on the Carlos sick line - it's automated system where you press 1 to report that you are injured followed by a message of 'thank you - take as long as you need. Have you considered surgery?'.