Shoehorn FC

[pazowl55]

My team for tomorrow would involve shoehorning Bannan and Lee.

 

Like this as a four or a diamond.

 

Lee  Butterfield Jones Bannan.

 

Reach Left back. Back to Fletcher and Hooper up front. Rest as usual.

 

Basically we need Bannan on the ball high up the pitch. 

 We need Lee to make runs beyond the strikers without completely emptying the midfield.

We need to free up Bannan and Lee when we attack and have them higher and playing them on the wings does this more than playing them in the centre.  

 

Fletcher, Hooper and Bannan ( if high up the pitch enough) will play some wonderful one touch football if given the opportunity to. also with the running of Lee into the channels and Butterfield higher we will find it easier to pass round teams with the more technical players where they can hurt them.

 

But most importantly in order for us to be confident in attack we need to be confident at the back and having Jones and Butterfield as the centre midfielders with the simple instruction of give it to Barry then sit may give Loovens and Lees the protection they need when Hunt and Reach push forward.

 

Yes shoehorning is not great but this is the only only way I see us getting goals and still having the right players back to stop us conceding 2 mins later.

[debram]

2 minutes ago, pazowl55 said:

My team for tomorrow would involve shoehorning Bannan and Lee.

 

Like this as a four or a diamond.

 

Lee  Butterfield Jones Bannan.

 

Reach Left back. Back to Fletcher and Hooper up front. Rest as usual.

 

Basically we need Bannan on the ball high up the pitch. 

 We need Lee to make runs beyond the strikers without completely emptying the midfield.

We need to free up Bannan and Lee when we attack and have them higher and playing them on the wings does this more than playing them in the centre.  

 

Fletcher, Hooper and Bannan ( if high up the pitch enough) will play some wonderful one touch football if given the opportunity to. also with the running of Lee into the channels and Butterfield higher we will find it easier to pass round teams with the more technical players where they can hurt them.

 

But most importantly in order for us to be confident in attack we need to be confident at the back and having Jones and Butterfield as the centre midfielders with the simple instruction of give it to Barry then sit may give Loovens and Lees the protection they need when Hunt and Reach push forward.

 

Yes shoehorning is not great but this is the only only way I see us getting goals and still having the right players back to stop us conceding 2 mins later.

stopped reading as soon as you mentioned Jones, and Reach at left back.

[pazowl55]

4 minutes ago, debram said:

stopped reading as soon as you mentioned Jones, and Reach at left back.

Should have carried on. may have understood why then.

[debram]

4 minutes ago, pazowl55 said:

Should have carried on. may have understood why then.

havnt got the patience, drinking and nervous about tomorrow, no offence meant

[pazowl55]

1 minute ago, debram said:

havnt got the patience, drinking and nervous about tomorrow, no offence meant

Jones because he is the only one that will sit and not want to push forward. And Hutch ain't avalible.

After Villa I was one saying that Reach should never be left back again. But Bannan is our best player by a country mile and he seem to operate best when high on the left hand side of the pitch with a full back going past him. Not a winger in front of him.

[Mr. Tom]

I don't think Fox wants dropping, personally. Certainly not for Reach, whose attacking game is coming on quite quickly (and who seems to be gaining confidence in that regard), but who literaly just makes up defensive numbers when he plays at fullback. Wasted there IMO, he's not a tackler in any sense and we need defensive beef when we lack pace.

[Walt]

21 minutes ago, pazowl55 said:

My team for tomorrow would involve shoehorning Bannan and Lee.

 

Like this as a four or a diamond.

 

Lee  Butterfield Jones Bannan.

 

Reach Left back. Back to Fletcher and Hooper up front. Rest as usual.

 

Basically we need Bannan on the ball high up the pitch. 

 We need Lee to make runs beyond the strikers without completely emptying the midfield.

We need to free up Bannan and Lee when we attack and have them higher and playing them on the wings does this more than playing them in the centre.  

 

Fletcher, Hooper and Bannan ( if high up the pitch enough) will play some wonderful one touch football if given the opportunity to. also with the running of Lee into the channels and Butterfield higher we will find it easier to pass round teams with the more technical players where they can hurt them.

 

But most importantly in order for us to be confident in attack we need to be confident at the back and having Jones and Butterfield as the centre midfielders with the simple instruction of give it to Barry then sit may give Loovens and Lees the protection they need when Hunt and Reach push forward.

 

Yes shoehorning is not great but this is the only only way I see us getting goals and still having the right players back to stop us conceding 2 mins later.

That was the team and formation (Butterfield in for Wallace) we put out  against Utd. They took us apart down the flanks as our full backs (one of whom is playing out of position) were left totally exposed due to Wallace and Bannan playing so narrow. 

Why would you have two central midfielder's "Bannan and Lee" playing on the wings, why not play wingers / wide midfielder's there?

I'm a bit confused mate, are we playing a diamond or 442? or does it change with / without the ball?

[pazowl55]

Just now, Mr. Tom said:

I don't think Fox wants dropping, personally. Certainly not for Reach, whose attacking game is coming on quite quickly (and who seems to be gaining confidence in that regard), but who literaly just makes up defensive numbers when he plays at fullback. Wasted there IMO, he's not a tackler in any sense and we need defensive beef when we lack pace.

Fox or Reach don't matter it's a up and down job if Bannan on the left. just gotta make sure you put a decent ball when he finds you with it.

[Mr. Tom]

7 minutes ago, pazowl55 said:

Fox or Reach don't matter it's a up and down job if Bannan on the left. just gotta make sure you put a decent ball when he finds you with it.

 

I get where you're coming from but I do think Reach is becoming an increasingly important contributor to our (horribly low!) shots/goals tally week on week. Leave him out or relegate him to FB, and both crosses and shots would drop by a third - we just can't afford it

Edited November 24, 2017 by Mr. Tom

[Morepork]

Also stopped reading at the word “shoehorn” reminded me of s bad experience in Clarks.. don’t want to see anyone playing out of their best position except in an injury crisis.

 

I’m guessing Reach has either scored+created most of our recent goals he needs to stay put, no crazy left back talk.

 

We need to play our own game to our strengths and give the opposites something to think about for a f*****g change!! And tempo, tempo, tempo!! 

 

Did i mention tempo!!!

[pazowl55]

2 minutes ago, Walt said:

That was the team and formation (Butterfield in for Wallace) we put out  against Utd. They took us apart down the flanks as our full backs (one of whom is playing out of position) were left totally exposed due to Wallace and Bannan playing so narrow. 

Why would you have two central midfielder's "Bannan and Lee" playing on the wings, why not play wingers / wide midfielder's there?

I'm a bit confused mate, are we playing a diamond or 442? or does it change with / without the ball?

Butterfield and Jones must sit. City do it well when full backs bomb on. Spurs also. problem we have is centre backs or defensive midfielders must be fairly comfortable going out to meet the wingers one on one that get past the full backs ours probably ain't so good at that.

Main problem we have when pushing for goal is we don't have enough back if we lose it or if we do they are the wrong players. Alright if in 80min yeah have reach left back. 3 forwards on. But sometimes we do it at half time. and only have say Loovens and Lees who are defensive minded. then we are back in the match with all our attacking players out there and no defensive ones. no wonder we concede again.

 

Also playing with a flat four across middle only seems to work for us against another flat four.

[pazowl55]

11 minutes ago, Morepork said:

Also stopped reading at the word “shoehorn” reminded me of s bad experience in Clarks.. don’t want to see anyone playing out of their best position except in an injury crisis.

 

I’m guessing Reach has either scored+created most of our recent goals he needs to stay put, no crazy left back talk.

 

We need to play our own game to our strengths and give the opposites something to think about for a f*****g change!! And tempo, tempo, tempo!! 

 

Did i mention tempo!!!

Agree.

But after tempo, tempo, tempo we tend to let one in at the other end because all our centre midfielders are pushing up trying to score.

Just trying to find a solution that makes us fluid in attack and helps us maintain a defensive attitude.

[Ronio]

If we are looking to shake things up, I would be looking at something like this.

 

                               Westwood

                   Lees    Van Aken   Venancio

   Palmer                                                      Reach

                                  Jones

                       Lee                Bannan

                          Hooper      Nuhiu

 

                  

[Indoor Owl]

59 minutes ago, debram said:

stopped reading as soon as you mentioned Jones, and Reach at left back.

 

Reach was the best left back in the Championship last month. 

 

Seems odd to suggest he can't play the position. 

[Indoor Owl]

Just now, Ronio said:

If we are looking to shake things up, I would be looking at something like this.

 

                               Westwood

                   Lees    Van Aken   Venancio

   Palmer                                                      Reach

                                  Jones

                       Lee                Bannan

                          Hooper      Nuhiu

 

                  

 

I like that, only with Lees central and Van Aken on the left. 

 

Also wouldn't mind seeing Big Dave paired with Rhodes

[Morepork]

7 minutes ago, pazowl55 said:

Agree.

But after tempo, tempo, tempo we tend to let one in at the other end because all our centre midfielders are pushing up trying to score.

Just trying to find a solution that makes us fluid in attack and helps us maintain a defensive attitude.

 

I hear you mate.

 

I think we’ve reached a point where our issues can’t be addressed by simple lineup and even tactical changes. 

 

Opposites do not fear us because they know our first priority is always to nullify them, they have little or nothing to think about. They simple go about their business as planned, we rarely do anything on the front foot.

[Walt]

9 minutes ago, pazowl55 said:

Butterfield and Jones must sit. City do it well when full backs bomb on. Spurs also. problem we have is centre backs or defensive midfielders must be fairly comfortable going out to meet the wingers one on one that get past the full backs ours probably ain't so good at that.

Main problem we have when pushing for goal is we don't have enough back if we lose it or if we do they are the wrong players. Alright if in 80min yeah have reach left back. 3 forwards on. But sometimes we do it at half time. and only have say Loovens and Lees who are defensive minded. then we are back in the match with all our attacking players out there and no defensive ones. no wonder we concede again.

 

Also playing with a flat four across middle only seems to work for us against another flat four.

City and Spurs do not play either a 442 or a diamond and generally go with one up front and play formations to give their attacking fullbacks cover. If you want your full backs to bomb on then I think you are going to have to play another formation to ones you mention ("Butterfield and Jones" sitting does hint at this). I sort of half agree with you as it does my nut in the way our fullbacks are targeted due to the lack of cover when they have burst forward to provide the width - the moves breaks down and bosh the opposition look to expose the glaring weakness on the flanks as we have no one covering the fullbacks. The exception to this wad Bristol City at home - the fullbacks did not venture forward and we were left with no width or creativity.

[Morepork]

3 minutes ago, Ronio said:

If we are looking to shake things up, I would be looking at something like this.

 

                               Westwood

                   Lees    Van Aken   Venancio

   Palmer                                                      Reach

                                  Jones

                       Lee                Bannan

                          Hooper      Nuhiu

 

                  

 

I’ve never like anyone’s suggested lineup before!!! I’m not sure I agree with the personnel but I think most of us would welcome a tactical change that would probably stun the opposites in to defeat if nothing else. 

 

Palmer, hard worker but nowhere near the quality to deliver a cross in that formation, Reach ok though.

 

Also we don’t know Venancio from a bar of soap so I could never suggest he start on that basis.

 

Wingbacks not hurting the Blades any though!! CC lives in the modern era of fluid formations and tactical periodisation, it’ll never happen. 

[Ronio]

3 minutes ago, Morepork said:

 

I’ve never like anyone’s suggested lineup before!!! I’m not sure I agree with the personnel but I think most of us would welcome a tactical change that would probably stun the opposites in to defeat if nothing else. 

 

Palmer, hard worker but nowhere near the quality to deliver a cross in that formation, Reach ok though.

 

Also we don’t know Venancio from a bar of soap so I could never suggest he start on that basis.

 

Wingbacks not hurting the Blades any though!! CC lives in the modern era of fluid formations and tactical periodisation, it’ll never happen. 

I know it will never happen.  

 

Just looking at different formations that could work for us.

 

I don't think we have the players to set up in a solid and balanced flat 442.

 

We could very well see something similar to a midfield diamond tomorrow.  Same set up we changed to after going down 2-1 against Ipswich.  

[debram]

24 minutes ago, Indoor Owl said:

 

Reach was the best left back in the Championship last month. 

 

Seems odd to suggest he can't play the position. 

Been exposed there, blunts, bolton to name a few, prone to shirking a tackle, best position wing back, can produce crosses when allowed to go forward