Shoehorn FC

[Holmowl]

12 hours ago, Robdylan said:

 

I'm a big fan of Bannan's, but you cannot play him on the left of midfield, either in a flat 4 or on the left of a diamond.

 

 

I'm assuming you watched the embarrassment against United.

 

When he starts wide left, he naturally drifts into the centre of midfield. He can't help it. And that creates 2 problems:

 

1. It leaves a gaping hole down the left hand side of the pitch, meaning that the left back can't get forward.

 

2. Teams can double up on our left back. 

 

 

If you can stomach it, go and re-watch the first half against United. Carlos should have been ashamed of himself. He was stood in the technical area, doing nothing as Bannan played 80% of the first half stood near the centre circle. If you think I'm exaggerating, see for yourself. There were also times where he was stood over near the right touch line with Wallace and Lee. Reach only got forward once in the first half. He was totally exposed as Bannan had gone missing. All of our attacks went down the right hand side, which left United free to exploit our left hand side. It was an utter shambles. How Carlos as had a book published on football tactics, is truly baffling. 

 

 

Bannan should be nowhere near the left hand side of midfield. 

 

Let Reach stand on the touch line. Let him actually play on the wing for once. He's a good crosser of the ball.

 

If we had Reach on one wing, and a direct right winger on the right, the strikers would thrive.

 

Carlos's tactics are awful. 

 

He should have bought a right winger in the summer, and he should have us playing in an attacking straight from the kick off. 

 

 

 

Great post.

 

You actually missed off a third problem when Bannan plays left (or Lee plays right). It makes us do easy to stifle. As you say, Bannan naturally drifts in, leaving it very difficult for our LB or CBs to start attacks up our left flank. Instead, it comes back from the LB to our CBs and over to Hunt.

 

Its awful, and it doesn't yield results.

[Buxtongent]

Anyone ever thought of setting he team up the old way i.e;

                                                             GK

                               RB                                                          LB

                     RH                                   CH                                          LH

              IR                                                                 IL

RW                                                        CF                                                          LW.

 

then let each side switch with each other , with RB bombing forward and the RH dropping back to cover when needed.

[Holmowl]

2 minutes ago, Buxtongent said:

Anyone ever thought of setting he team up the old way i.e;

                                                             GK

                               RB                                                          LB

                     RH                                   CH                                          LH

              IR                                                                 IL

RW                                                        CF                                                          LW.

 

then let each side switch with each other , with RB bombing forward and the RH dropping back to cover when needed.

 

The old Christmas tree with one mis-placed bauble formation.

[Walt]

6 hours ago, pazowl55 said:

Basically we haven't got the resources. If Forestieri was fit he would be in. But he would protect the full back a lot less that what Bannan would. 

You mentioned a pacy skilful wide player and offer up Wallace. and as for Matias and Abdi if they were the answer we would know it by now.

 

It's a very narrow formation not how it looks there.

But we don't have a Mane or a Salah type player avalible to us so why play with that formation and style.

I was trying to make your formation work with the players in our squad...to give us balance and get players in their proper positions. We've established that Bannan and Lee as the widest midfield players is flawed, we've seen it fail, we know why it fails and we've had it explained by an opposition manager. Your answer to this fundamental flaw is to include another defensive midfielder to give the fullbacks protection and let Lee and Bannan operate more offensively. I still do not think this will work as we will still be so narrow and the flanks will still be exposed.

 

The idea with FF as the left inside forward (as with all inside forwards) will be to occupy the oppositions right back high up the pitch as FF will naturally take up that position, the opposition centre backs won't take too kindly to their right back leaving FF unmarked with a free run at them and will more than likely tell their mate to stay put. Playing Bannan there does not give you this option.

 

"You offer up Wallace" Yep that's because I have a choice between him and Matias as they are the only first team players we've got who play right wing. I would not play a centre mid there. I would have signed a right winger with searing pace pre season and not Boyd, that would have been my choice.

 

"Matias and Abdi being the answer" I don't know because they don't play. I don't think it beyond the realms of possibility that they may well be very good players but our coach doesn't fancy them. It won't be the first or last time players have been misread by their manager.

 

 

 

[pazowl55]

1 hour ago, Walt said:

I was trying to make your formation work with the players in our squad...to give us balance and get players in their proper positions. We've established that Bannan and Lee as the widest midfield players is flawed, we've seen it fail, we know why it fails and we've had it explained by an opposition manager. Your answer to this fundamental flaw is to include another defensive midfielder to give the fullbacks protection and let Lee and Bannan operate more offensively. I still do not think this will work as we will still be so narrow and the flanks will still be exposed.

 

The idea with FF as the left inside forward (as with all inside forwards) will be to occupy the oppositions right back high up the pitch as FF will naturally take up that position, the opposition centre backs won't take too kindly to their right back leaving FF unmarked with a free run at them and will more than likely tell their mate to stay put. Playing Bannan there does not give you this option.

 

"You offer up Wallace" Yep that's because I have a choice between him and Matias as they are the only first team players we've got who play right wing. I would not play a centre mid there. I would have signed a right winger with searing pace pre season and not Boyd, that would have been my choice.

 

"Matias and Abdi being the answer" I don't know because they don't play. I don't think it beyond the realms of possibility that they may well be very good players but our coach doesn't fancy them. It won't be the first or last time players have been misread by their manager.

 

 

 

Give up on what the answer is to be honest. 

Today was the the same old side to side then back then an over hit pass.

 

[Walt]

3 minutes ago, pazowl55 said:

Give up on what the answer is to be honest. 

Today was the the same old side to side then back then an over hit pass.

 

Thing is an away point at Reading isn't a bad result when taken in isolation. You quite rightly may take a different view if you have paid to watch it or see the bigger picture. I think the answer is to try something different if it is not working, can we try something different? Have we got the players to try something different? How many managers would set up like we do given the same set of players?

[pazowl55]

25 minutes ago, Walt said:

Thing is an away point at Reading isn't a bad result when taken in isolation. You quite rightly may take a different view if you have paid to watch it or see the bigger picture. I think the answer is to try something different if it is not working, can we try something different? Have we got the players to try something different? How many managers would set up like we do given the same set of players?

Joao was probably one of the better players today always looked to get involved and had some good touches. problem is sometimes he over elaborates and the less said about his final pass or shot the better.

[shezzas left peg]

22 hours ago, Ronio said:

If we are looking to shake things up, I would be looking at something like this.

 

                               Westwood

                   Lees    Van Aken   Venancio

   Palmer                                                      Reach

                                  Jones

                       Lee                Bannan

                          Hooper      Nuhiu

 

                  

Maybe not Nuhiu up top, but agree with the rest bud, Lee out of Bannan, Butterfield and Jones is the only one capable of bursting forward and actually getting a shot on target totally wasted lumped wide on the right, if Carlos had wanted to keep reach wide left and rest Wallace I'd have put Bannan wide right, was possibly one of our best performers in the second Huddersfield game there replacing Wallace, remember a couple of very good runs where he beat a couple of players and put a cross in. 

[shezzas left peg]

21 hours ago, Robdylan said:

 

I'm a big fan of Bannan's, but you cannot play him on the left of midfield, either in a flat 4 or on the left of a diamond.

 

 

I'm assuming you watched the embarrassment against United.

 

When he starts wide left, he naturally drifts into the centre of midfield. He can't help it. And that creates 2 problems:

 

1. It leaves a gaping hole down the left hand side of the pitch, meaning that the left back can't get forward.

 

2. Teams can double up on our left back. 

 

 

If you can stomach it, go and re-watch the first half against United. Carlos should have been ashamed of himself. He was stood in the technical area, doing nothing as Bannan played 80% of the first half stood near the centre circle. If you think I'm exaggerating, see for yourself. There were also times where he was stood over near the right touch line with Wallace and Lee. Reach only got forward once in the first half. He was totally exposed as Bannan had gone missing. All of our attacks went down the right hand side, which left United free to exploit our left hand side. It was an utter shambles. How Carlos as had a book published on football tactics, is truly baffling. 

 

 

Bannan should be nowhere near the left hand side of midfield. 

 

Let Reach stand on the touch line. Let him actually play on the wing for once. He's a good crosser of the ball.

 

If we had Reach on one wing, and a direct right winger on the right, the strikers would thrive.

 

Carlos's tactics are awful. 

 

He should have bought a right winger in the summer, and he should have us playing in an attacking straight from the kick off. 

 

 

I was reminded of Bannan at villa the other day and was watching some old footage of when he was there, played a lot of his football out wide right or in a midfield three and really looked awesome at times. Personally I think he's a cracking little player, but just dosent work in a flat midfield 4-4-2. He shoots like David batty and tackles like Paul Scholes , he's not big strong or physical to play in the centre especially when Carlos wants us to defend and it really nullifies his very good passing range in a two with a sitting midfield partner alongside him in a two as he's no one to play a forward ball to push us on when we're trying to get back on the front foot or break. 

[Robdylan]

2 hours ago, Walt said:

I was trying to make your formation work with the players in our squad...to give us balance and get players in their proper positions. We've established that Bannan and Lee as the widest midfield players is flawed, we've seen it fail, we know why it fails and we've had it explained by an opposition manager. Your answer to this fundamental flaw is to include another defensive midfielder to give the fullbacks protection and let Lee and Bannan operate more offensively. I still do not think this will work as we will still be so narrow and the flanks will still be exposed.

 

The idea with FF as the left inside forward (as with all inside forwards) will be to occupy the oppositions right back high up the pitch as FF will naturally take up that position, the opposition centre backs won't take too kindly to their right back leaving FF unmarked with a free run at them and will more than likely tell their mate to stay put. Playing Bannan there does not give you this option.

 

"You offer up Wallace" Yep that's because I have a choice between him and Matias as they are the only first team players we've got who play right wing. I would not play a centre mid there. I would have signed a right winger with searing pace pre season and not Boyd, that would have been my choice.

 

"Matias and Abdi being the answer" I don't know because they don't play. I don't think it beyond the realms of possibility that they may well be very good players but our coach doesn't fancy them. It won't be the first or last time players have been misread by their manager.

 

 

 

 

I like George Boyd, but why didn't we sign an actual right winger in the summer?

 

A wasted opportunity. 

[Robdylan]

5 minutes ago, shezzas left peg said:

I was reminded of Bannan at villa the other day and was watching some old footage of when he was there, played a lot of his football out wide right or in a midfield three and really looked awesome at times. Personally I think he's a cracking little player, but just dosent work in a flat midfield 4-4-2. He shoots like David batty and tackles like Paul Scholes , he's not big strong or physical to play in the centre especially when Carlos wants us to defend and it really nullifies his very good passing range in a two with a sitting midfield partner alongside him in a two as he's no one to play a forward ball to push us on when we're trying to get back on the front foot or break. 

 

Good post.

 

I also think Bannan is a cracking player. Lee too. But after being in charge for over 2 seasons, it's just a joke (in my opinion) to see the likes of Lee being pushed out wide. 

[Walt]

29 minutes ago, Robdylan said:

 

I like George Boyd, but why didn't we sign an actual right winger in the summer?

 

A wasted opportunity. 

A genuine right winger doesn't give Carlos his "compact." Boyd can be relied upon to do what Wallace does and should be an upgrade. That's how I think CC see's things. It's all about his compact system and genuine wingers are too maverick to fit in. For me it's pathetic that we are limited to one player who can dribble past a man (FF). The ironic thing is I will often hear (on the radio, on the way home after a match) Carlos rambling on about how we have to be wary of the oppositions "fast attack." Fuckme, if a fast attack is such a worry then go and buy a fast attack for us  instead of identikit plodders.

[pazowl55]

Thing about Carlos is he is such a defensive type coach. Hence the 3 shots on target in 337 mins or whatever it is.

 

We desperately miss Forestieri with Carlos's tactics as he is only player really capable of injecting a bit of pace into our attack with his direct running. Joao does it, Bannan also but there final balls are normally way off.

Edited November 25, 2017 by pazowl55

[Robdylan]

2 hours ago, Walt said:

A genuine right winger doesn't give Carlos his "compact." Boyd can be relied upon to do what Wallace does and should be an upgrade. That's how I think CC see's things. It's all about his compact system and genuine wingers are too maverick to fit in. For me it's pathetic that we are limited to one player who can dribble past a man (FF). The ironic thing is I will often hear (on the radio, on the way home after a match) Carlos rambling on about how we have to be wary of the oppositions "fast attack." Fuckme, if a fast attack is such a worry then go and buy a fast attack for us  instead of identikit plodders.

 

Great post.

 

I agree entirely with everything you've written. 

 

It's so frustrating.