Shearer mentions Hirst snr...

[Costello 77]

20 minutes ago, Wild Will Smith said:

 

Trying things out? How many strikers have been played in the qualifiers? How many strikers under the age of 26 have been played in the qualifiers?

 

I don't see much experimentation going on there. We should stroll past teams in our group and be able to play and bed in the next generation ready for tournaments. Instead we qualify like giants and go out with a whimper when we get there. Same pattern over and over.

 

You obviously must have different facts than me about English strikers playing week in week out in the Premier League and being capped for their nation.

What's with the age 26 cut off?

Fitness, form and players that can suit a system.. that's what coaches look at in an easy qualifying group.

What do you want to see him doing?

[Costello 77]

22 minutes ago, Mr Mercury said:

No clue what was missing from Hirsts game !? Bold statement that....  He had everything, with no "on the field" weaknesses imo. Off the field perhaps yes, this may have hindered his injury recoveries but crikey, he had the lot. 

That's got to be worth an ALLLRIGHT!

[Guest]

Just now, Costello 77 said:

What's with the age 26 cut off?

Fitness, form and players that can suit a system.. that's what coaches look at in an easy qualifying group.

What do you want to see him doing?

 

It is a universally accepted fact that players aged 26 to 29 are peaking and perform best at tournaments. Obviously there are exceptions, because world class can defy age. But do we have genuinely world class players? I don't think we do at the moment.

 

I said before I'm happy that Defoe is in the squad, he is useful to come off the bench and do a job. But against Malta and Lithuania and the like we should be starting Vardy and/or Rashford if Kane is unfit and Defoe/Rooney type end of career players should be benched. How are the in form, younger players meant to learn and get ready if we don't trust them against minnows?

 

When we get to Russia we have to hope that Kane and Sturridge are fit and in form and free of injury, that Rooney is back playing week in week out at club level, that Defoe isn't tired out from a long season in form at his age or we are left with Vardy and Rashford because they are the only other players Southgate wants to use seemingly.

 

And my point in all this is that we have nobody else to call on, unlike in the early 2000's when we had around ten strikers under 26 all scoring double figures in the Premier League who could all be tried. The Premier League is killing the England team.

[Costello 77]

3 minutes ago, Wild Will Smith said:

 

It is a universally accepted fact that players aged 26 to 29 are peaking and perform best at tournaments. Obviously there are exceptions, because world class can defy age. But do we have genuinely world class players? I don't think we do at the moment.

 

I said before I'm happy that Defoe is in the squad, he is useful to come off the bench and do a job. But against Malta and Lithuania and the like we should be starting Vardy and/or Rashford if Kane is unfit and Defoe/Rooney type end of career players should be benched. How are the in form, younger players meant to learn and get ready if we don't trust them against minnows?

 

When we get to Russia we have to hope that Kane and Sturridge are fit and in form and free of injury, that Rooney is back playing week in week out at club level, that Defoe isn't tired out from a long season in form at his age or we are left with Vardy and Rashford because they are the only other players Southgate wants to use seemingly.

 

And my point in all this is that we have nobody else to call on, unlike in the early 2000's when we had around ten strikers under 26 all scoring double figures in the Premier League who could all be tried. The Premier League is killing the England team.

There's games to look at them all.

I striker fits into a a team formation.

So, there are multiples of that.

We really don't need ten strikers to audition..four or five are plenty.

Whatever their age.

[Guest]

Just now, Costello 77 said:

There's games to look at them all.

I striker fits into a a team formation.

So, there are multiples of that.

We really don't need ten strikers to audition..four or five are plenty.

Whatever their age.

 

We are midway through the qualifiers, we have played Malta and Lithuania. He is running out of time to try options. I've proven he is using the same few strikers all the time anyway so what makes you think he suddenly will throw in Someone like Antonio or Deeney? And frankly why should he, are they good enough?

 

You really don't get my point but I don't expect you to, because I've proven you wrong and you dont want to hold your hands up and admit it. Either that or you're not actually very knowledgable about football. 

 

To hammer home my point again go look at Premier League top scorers lists from early to mid 2000's. Young players like Owen, Crouch, Defoe (irony), Beattie, Harewood, Andy Johnson, Darren Bent, Rooney, Ashton etc were all coming through and top scorers in the Premier League year on year.

 

Just think about that. At the same time as we had the likes of Henry, Bergkamp etc hammering in Premier League goals we had a raft of young English strikers scoring double figures in the top division.

 

Now compare that to what we have in this era. Shearer is right. We have nothing to call on.

[whatevertrevor]

Well most of the strikers he mentioned did not do a lot for England. 

 

Most were also also from the era in which England finished bottom of their Euro 1992 group and do not qualify for the World Cup in 1994.

 

I'm not saying he isn't listing some good players and some great players, of course he is, but if it's 'look how far England have fallen' thing then it doesn't stack up. 

 

In my time of watching England (with any memories at least) from 1992 onwards the best England teams were the Sven teams from 2002 - 2006 (other than two great weeks in '96 and a good week in '98). 

Ahhh Sven. Remember how we moaned about getting knocked out on pens on QFs after taking the fight to teams? I'd take that now!

 

 

[whatevertrevor]

4 minutes ago, Wild Will Smith said:

 

 

To hammer home my point again go look at Premier League top scorers lists from early to mid 2000's. Young players like Owen, Crouch, Defoe (irony), Beattie, Harewood, Andy Johnson, Darren Bent, Rooney, Ashton etc were all coming through and top scorers in the Premier League year on year.

 

 

Now compare that to what we have in this era. Shearer is right. We have nothing to call on.

 

Agree with you WWS. But Shearer is comparing the wrong era really. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, whatevertrevor said:

 

Agree with you WWS. But Shearer is comparing the wrong era really. 

 

I agree. The point he's making is valid though, that currently we have no talent to call on. Such a shame.

 

We really did have a wealth of players to choose from in the 2000's. Crazy amounts really when you look at it. Something has gone badly wrong at club level now.

[Ellis Rimmer]

1 hour ago, PeteG_1984 said:

Agree with Shearer, players used to score 20+ goals in the premier league and not get anywhere near the first XI.

 

If Andy Booth was around now and scoring the amount of goals he did in his first couple of seasons, he would have definitely got a few England caps; which says it all.

 

I appreciate the comments about higher quality league now and teams only playing 1 up front but there is still a huge issue with quality players coming through. England teams in previous generations, whilst underachieving, have still done better for their eras than this current squad have done/will do.

If Andy Booth was around now he would be in the Championship and I doubt he would've ever left it

 

Why have previous England squads over the decades done better? they failed to qualify for 3 world cups!

[malek]

Just what I said in another thread.

 

I also mentioned Hirst last

[Mr Mercury]

1 hour ago, Costello 77 said:

That's got to be worth an ALLLRIGHT!

I used to say Deyyyyyooo as Sir David's  shot hit the back of the net ! 

[PeteG_1984]

12 minutes ago, Ellis Rimmer said:

If Andy Booth was around now he would be in the Championship and I doubt he would've ever left it

 

Why have previous England squads over the decades done better? they failed to qualify for 3 world cups!

 

With Andy Booth, I meant if an Englishman was scoring the amount of goals he was not someone of exactly the same ability.

 

As for England, yes they didn't qualify for a couple of world cups, but they generally did better when they got there. This team qualifies through virtue of having an easy group then are hopeless when they get there.

[Ellis Rimmer]

1 minute ago, PeteG_1984 said:

 

With Andy Booth, I meant if an Englishman was scoring the amount of goals he was not someone of exactly the same ability.

 

As for England, yes they didn't qualify for a couple of world cups, but they generally did better when they got there. This team qualifies through virtue of having an easy group then are hopeless when they get there.

Well yeah he would be in with a shout but that is not because England aren't producing the players of the same quality it is because the league is higher quality so it doesn't have comparatively as many Englishmen in it and the ones that are still there would've been up there with Shearer's aforementioned strikers.

 

If you overlook the times we didn't qualify you can argue we did better but it's a biggie that we didn't qualify, fact is the won nothing then and they won nothing now so the likes of Shearer can't be slagging the England side. 

 

Never gets mentioned that Shearer retired from international duty and put us in a mess with our lack of strikers. We would've done much better in 2002 if Owen had Shearer up top with him for sure.

[Mr Mercury]

1 hour ago, Wild Will Smith said:

 

It is a universally accepted fact that players aged 26 to 29 are peaking and perform best at tournaments. Obviously there are exceptions, because world class can defy age. But do we have genuinely world class players? I don't think we do at the moment.

 

I said before I'm happy that Defoe is in the squad, he is useful to come off the bench and do a job. But against Malta and Lithuania and the like we should be starting Vardy and/or Rashford if Kane is unfit and Defoe/Rooney type end of career players should be benched. How are the in form, younger players meant to learn and get ready if we don't trust them against minnows?

 

When we get to Russia we have to hope that Kane and Sturridge are fit and in form and free of injury, that Rooney is back playing week in week out at club level, that Defoe isn't tired out from a long season in form at his age or we are left with Vardy and Rashford because they are the only other players Southgate wants to use seemingly.

 

And my point in all this is that we have nobody else to call on, unlike in the early 2000's when we had around ten strikers under 26 all scoring double figures in the Premier League who could all be tried. The Premier League is killing the England team.

Rashford was on fire last season... what happens ? Man Utd sign Ibrahamovic ...Most young English strikers don't get a look in these days in the Premier League as the teams can't afford to wait for them to blossom. With regards Defoe, I've rated him highly for years, been one of my favourite strikers. He's scored goals everywhere and I still cannot believe a "top" team didn't sign him in his prime. But again that's another example of the top teams at the time buying big/abroad. He's consistently been one of the best English scorers (aside from season in Canada as I dont know how he performed) and should have more silverware and caps. This will continue until there's some kind of cap on foreign players in PL, but money talks and won't happen. The National side will always suffer , it was predicted many years ago. 

[Costello 77]

35 minutes ago, Mr Mercury said:

I used to say Deyyyyyooo as Sir David's  shot hit the back of the net ! 

Wonderful Roger.

[Costello 77]

1 hour ago, Wild Will Smith said:

 

We are midway through the qualifiers, we have played Malta and Lithuania. He is running out of time to try options. I've proven he is using the same few strikers all the time anyway so what makes you think he suddenly will throw in Someone like Antonio or Deeney? And frankly why should he, are they good enough?

 

You really don't get my point but I don't expect you to, because I've proven you wrong and you dont want to hold your hands up and admit it. Either that or you're not actually very knowledgable about football. 

 

To hammer home my point again go look at Premier League top scorers lists from early to mid 2000's. Young players like Owen, Crouch, Defoe (irony), Beattie, Harewood, Andy Johnson, Darren Bent, Rooney, Ashton etc were all coming through and top scorers in the Premier League year on year.

 

Just think about that. At the same time as we had the likes of Henry, Bergkamp etc hammering in Premier League goals we had a raft of young English strikers scoring double figures in the top division.

 

Now compare that to what we have in this era. Shearer is right. We have nothing to call on.

Ha ha. Well we'll just have to see then.

[Guest ka58]

Download the chris waddle interview podcast of "the big interview by graham hunter".

 

he has some really common sense points on the English national game and how the money in the game has stunted the growth of players in our game.

 

one of the points is due to the amount of money at stake clubs simply don't have the patience to develop players anymore as they need immediate success and foreign players are generally cheaper also.

 

if you use Hirst as an example - for 4/5 years he was by no means first choice but the club were willing to stick with him. That would never happen now.

 

im not comparing the players, or criticising the decision to sell, but look at someone like stevie may. He had less than a season here - despite scoring a few goals and with a good lower league record behind him.

 

there every chance he would have got a lot longer 20 years ago and he may have been up to it.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Costello 77 said:

Ha ha. Well we'll just have to see then.

 

Just have to see what? What are you predicting will happen?

[Costello 77]

Just now, Wild Will Smith said:

 

Just have to see what? What are you predicting will happen?

I made a sentence that expressed a speculation. It by definition, makes no predictive preposition.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Costello 77 said:

I made a sentence that expressed a speculation. It by definition, makes no predictive preposition.

 

So.

 

You're not really saying anything then. 

 

Ok.