Guest _Ibbo_ Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 It's because he's making basic defensive errors game after game that you get drilled into you as a 12 year old not to do. You can't back off wingers and allow them to get crosses in or worse get into the box unchallenged Dunn is an absolute quality winger. You just can't jump into these players as they will just go round you. He didn't actually back off. Dunn played a fantastic 1-2 with one of their midfield players. A proper old school wall pass, one of our midfielders wasn't picking up their players enough Hes making so many defensive errors that hes part of one of the best back fours in the country at the moment. Your picking a player out based on a 3.40 second highlight...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonesy87shef Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Dunn is an absolute quality winger. You just can't jump into these players as they will just go round you. He didn't actually back off. Dunn played a fantastic 1-2 with one of their midfield players. A proper old school wall pass, one of our midfielders wasn't picking up their players enough Hes making so many defensive errors that hes part of one of the best back fours in the country at the moment. Your picking a player out based on a 3.40 second highlight...... absolute quality winger!?!? He's nearly a 35 year old back up championship player who's played through the middle the majority of his career. Dunn is slow, but if he gets in the right areas he can punish you, that's why you can't back off him as he will struggle to go round you. Never did I say 'jump in', you have to close them down or give a away a foul in a none dangerous area. You don't wait till they get in the box! You can hold a player up to allow a winger to get back and hell out, you don't back off into the box time and time again. And no it's not picked out from one highlight, that was an example and the easiest to hand. I made a thread the other week after the Huddersfield game pointing out all his position errors and mistakes, and yet people like you don't seem to see it. You notice the good passes and shots a player makes, but yet you don't see the basics. He has genuinely been nothing short of shocking defensively in a number of games this season. Sometimes it's lead to a goal but the majority of the time someone else has covered for him. Just because he is part of one of the best defences in the league means he's immune from criticism. He sticks out like a sore thumb for anyone who understands defending and pays attention to it. The fact is he is making error and needs to improve. It's just not highlighted enough because he's getting away with it. For example if lees or Loovens misplaced a back pass 3-4 times a game a Westwood makes a great recovering save is that void from criticism and not w mistake just because somebody made up for their error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wednesday_Jack Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Palmer needs a rest n a kick up the backside...when's Buxton back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AbbeyOwl Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 absolute quality winger!?!? He's nearly a 35 year old back up championship player who's played through the middle the majority of his career. Dunn is slow, but if he gets in the right areas he can punish you, that's why you can't back off him as he will struggle to go round you. Never did I say 'jump in', you have to close them down or give a away a foul in a none dangerous area. You don't wait till they get in the box! You can hold a player up to allow a winger to get back and hell out, you don't back off into the box time and time again. And no it's not picked out from one highlight, that was an example and the easiest to hand. I made a thread the other week after the Huddersfield game pointing out all his position errors and mistakes, and yet people like you don't seem to see it. You notice the good passes and shots a player makes, but yet you don't see the basics. He has genuinely been nothing short of shocking defensively in a number of games this season. Sometimes it's lead to a goal but the majority of the time someone else has covered for him. Just because he is part of one of the best defences in the league means he's immune from criticism. He sticks out like a sore thumb for anyone who understands defending and pays attention to it. The fact is he is making error and needs to improve. It's just not highlighted enough because he's getting away with it. For example if lees or Loovens misplaced a back pass 3-4 times a game a Westwood makes a great recovering save is that void from criticism and not w mistake just because somebody made up for their error. What should he have done differently? Do you think the midfielders who initially lost out should have made an effort to get back so he wasn't left one on one? Palmer needs a rest n a kick up the backside...when's Buxton back? You think Buxton is better than Palmer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coopswfc76 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 One bad point of Palmers is he switches off all the time & sulks for just a few seconds when things go wrong. One incident on Saturday was a player flicked the ball over his head and he just stopped so from being a few yards behind he was now 20yards behind him & totally out of the game. He as come on loads over last 2 seasons though but needs telling about these lapses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beholder Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Here we go. Expect a 20 page thread as the critics post thousands of words to try and justify the unjustifiable. Just like in the Nuhiu thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Guns Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 hes poo poo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonesy87shef Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Here we go. Expect a 20 page thread as the critics post thousands of words to try and justify the unjustifiable. Just like in the Nuhiu thread. Just so you know I like Nuhui. I don't post thousands of words to 'justify the unjustifiable'. Can you honestly not see the DEFENSIVE errors he makes week in week out. I think there is a player in their but he really needs to learn and fast. Also to answer your question abbeyowl, yes the midfield should have done better in the first place. However this is a liam Palmer thread and there or dozens of examples of his doing this throughout the season. I wish I had all the highlights of him and a the Monday night football software and I could go through it point by point with some people so they could actually understand what he's doing wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AbbeyOwl Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Just so you know I like Nuhui. I don't post thousands of words to 'justify the unjustifiable'. Can you honestly not see the DEFENSIVE errors he makes week in week out. I think there is a player in their but he really needs to learn and fast. Also to answer your question abbeyowl, yes the midfield should have done better in the first place. However this is a liam Palmer thread and there or dozens of examples of his doing this throughout the season. I wish I had all the highlights of him and a the Monday night football software and I could go through it point by point with some people so they could actually understand what he's doing wrong. I think if you picked any one of our players you could have countless examples in every game they did the wrong thing with the possible exception of Lees and he isn't perfect. Defending should not be one on one, if it becomes that other players let the team down. I do think Palmer still has alot to learn at right back, quite a specialist position, defending is very coached, when i have watched games with a mate who played Centre Back professionally you then realise it isn't quite as it seems as a layman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonesy87shef Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Also abbey, originally he should not be so tucked inside so far up the pitch. The midfield is wrong in the first place for doubling up on Dunn which allows Palmer to drift inside, then when the ball is played inside he's drawn to the ball rather than actually being positionally aware of what's going on behind him in the right back spot, he's drawn to the ball like an under 10's player here. Then when Dunn receives it he runs back in a straight line rather than trying to cut him off before he gets on the box, this now means its not an option to bring him down as he's in the area, it's also tough to make a challenge because of the risk of giving away a penalty. He should be going to him and holding him up and either making a tackle outside the box or blocking a cross. Remember this is just one example and it happens numerous times a game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AbbeyOwl Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Also abbey, originally he should not be so tucked inside so far up the pitch. The midfield is wrong in the first place for doubling up on Dunn which allows Palmer to drift inside, then when the ball is played inside he's drawn to the ball rather than actually being positionally aware of what's going on behind him in the right back spot, he's drawn to the ball like an under 10's player here. Then when Dunn receives it he runs back in a straight line rather than trying to cut him off before he gets on the box, this now means its not an option to bring him down as he's in the area, it's also tough to make a challenge because of the risk of giving away a penalty. He should be going to him and holding him up and either making a tackle outside the box or blocking a cross. Remember this is just one example and it happens numerous times a game As I say you can analyse any player in our team and they make numerous errors per game. He definitely was in the wrong position when midfield gave the ball away but I presume he expected 2 players to be able to deal with it and was making himself available for a pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonesy87shef Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 As I say you can analyse any player in our team and they make numerous errors per game. He definitely was in the wrong position when midfield gave the ball away but I presume he expected 2 players to be able to deal with it and was making himself available for a pass. Well that's the point isn't it. It's a Liam Palmer thread and he is making errors, he needs to learn and improve from them. As I've said before he's been damn lucky to seasons his errors haven't lead to more goals. There are key areas of the pitch that errors matter more and the back 5 are the most crucial imo as it can often cost you a goal. The mainl point about Palmer is he's making the SAME mistake over and over again. It's basics and fundamentals he is getting wrong game after game and its very concerning imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest _Ibbo_ Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) Also abbey, originally he should not be so tucked inside so far up the pitch. The midfield is wrong in the first place for doubling up on Dunn which allows Palmer to drift inside, then when the ball is played inside he's drawn to the ball. But about 20 minutes ago you were saying he SHOULD be attacking the ball. Now your complaining that he actually did go for the ball. The bloke can't win. Which is the point about playing a defensive role. Sometimes you go for the ball and get done. Other times you back off and try and prevent the cross. Players of all quality make mistakes. Felliani for Man U played some utterly awful passes last night. he is 22 and has a decade of football ahead of him Edited December 9, 2014 by _Ibbo_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonesy87shef Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 But about 20 minutes ago you were saying he SHOULD be attacking the ball. Now your complaining that he actually did go for the ball. The bloke can't win. Which is the point about playing a defensive role. Sometimes you go for the ball and get done. Other times you back off and try and prevent the cross. Players of all quality make mistakes. Felliani for Man U played some utterly awful passes last night. he is 22 and has a decade of football ahead of him Jesus do you actually understand defending. He should be attacking the ball in the right areas. Have you actually ever played football? He shouldn't be popping up in centre mid trying to win the all back leaving all the left wing exposed behind him. No you go to the ball and close the man down in the correct areas. Running into the middle of the pitch leaves you vulnerable to an easy over lap, just as if a winger doesn't track back it would allow the opposition full back to make an easy underlay where he comes inside. That's now the problem of the centre midfield and n and centre backs. Not the right backs responsibility. Ye he is young n I've said I think there's a player I'm there but he needs to grasp the basics n pretty damn fast or unfortunately will slowly drop down the leagues. Also he's 23 with getting close to 150 league appearances under his belt. Also your Fellini point, awful passes in the centre of the park or further up the pitch rarely result in conceding goals and putting the team under vast amounts of pressure. What Palmer is doing does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest _Ibbo_ Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) It's because he's making basic defensive errors game after game that you get drilled into you as a 12 year old not to do. You can't back off wingers and allow them to get crosses in or worse get into the box unchallenged. Also abbey, originally he should not be so tucked inside so far up the pitch. The midfield is wrong in the first place for doubling up on Dunn which allows Palmer to drift inside, then when the ball is played inside he's drawn to the ball rather than actually being positionally aware of what's going on behind him in the right back spot, Your slagging palmer off for simultaneously going for the ball and attacking it to try and stop them. Then in the same breth saying he shouldn't be doing that. As i've said before. If you play defence and go and try and make the tackle. People will complain that you should have backed off. If you back off and the guy gets a tackle in, then you get shouted at for backing off. I hope to see you in a CCC side at some point that after 20 matches has one of the best defensive records in the league. Some people seem to get their kick off just absolutely slating players. Edited December 9, 2014 by _Ibbo_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue n White Rampage Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I was just going to post the same thing. Absolutely criminal. He's been getting away with that kind of backing off and being out of position all season. The tackle has to be made outside the box and there is noway a full back should ever be lettin crosses and shots come in. It's their job to stop it. It has been down to Westwood, Lees and Loovens that his poor defending hasn't been punished more this season. Great ball in the first half, supposed you have to mention that. From 3:40 watch the defending http://youtu.be/_TwPuBoqCQE the rule of thumb is, if someones making a run go with them and stay with them (even if they pass the ball) helan should have gone with bentley or whoever that was. helan dropped off and then palmer who had turned his attention to the other lad had to play catch-which he did and left bentley with an awkward angle even if he did have a decent shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonesy87shef Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Your slagging palmer off for simultaneously going for the ball and attacking it to try and stop them. Then in the same breth saying he shouldn't be doing that. As i've said before. If you play defence and go and try and make the tackle. People will complain that you should have backed off. If you back off and the guy gets a tackle in, then you get shouted at for backing off. I hope to see you in a CCC side at some point that after 20 matches has one of the best defensive records in the league. Some people seem to get their kick off just absolutely slating players. I like how it's always slagging off when it's pointing out what he's doing wrong. Forgot you can't criticise a wednesday player on here and actually point in what they've done. You don't go following the ball in the middle of the pitch. It's about positional awareness, knowing when to go to the ball or back off a few yards and not letting them get crosses in and letting them walk into the box. What's so hard to understand? Like I've said you just obviously don't get defending. You don't have to dive in, just stand your ground and do you job. Anyone who's played in defence or as a goalkeeper at a decent level will tell you the same thing. You're just twising words and making things up and missing parts out of my posts. I've stated he should sometimes go for the ball and others drop back, but pretty much at all costs you don't let them walk into the area and you do your best to prevent crosses. You can disguise lots of things with stats. Just because he's currently playing right back at championship level for a club who can't afford better and the other right back has been injured on and off for the past two seasons. There's no better option. You can't gloss over what he's doing wrong just cos others are picking up after him. If he doesn't improve he won't be playing in the championship or better in 5 years unfortunately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modboy Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 isnt OT about differences of opinions? Thats why its a great place. Some people rate him, some think he needs to improve, no point people getting mardy about it. Personally i would like to see Buxton back if hes fully fit as think he offers more to the team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wednesday_Jack Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 You think Buxton is better than Palmer? A match fit Buxton is a better full back than palmer IMO. I rated palmer last season but I think he has become complacent and as taken his starting role for granted and I think he has been poor for several games...he seems to lack the effort and desire he showed last season. I just think healthy competition could get him performing again. Palmer and nuhiu were our worst players at Blackburn Saturday and I will put my neck on the line and say palmer edged it and was probably our worst!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonesy87shef Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 the rule of thumb is, if someones making a run go with them and stay with them (even if they pass the ball) helan should have gone with bentley or whoever that was. helan dropped off and then palmer who had turned his attention to the other lad had to play catch-which he did and left bentley with an awkward angle even if he did have a decent shot. that's definitely not rule of thumb, you pass players on and swap markers. If you just ran after the same player that's when space opens up and teams carve you open. The midfield definitely should have done better but as stated this is a Liam Palmer thread and he's guilty of being out of position and backing off and allowing crosses and runs into the box game after game. Also David Bentley retired mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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