markowl Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Can someone explain to ibbo the difference between a limited company and the wednesdayite structure And spoil the fun? Nah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BirdonaMaguire Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Ibbo, got owned in various threads so now demonstrates his lack of knowledge in another, don't say owt though he may cry like a girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markowl Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 I expect a few posts to be removed soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BirdonaMaguire Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 'Your' in a legal minefield there mark.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Undercover_Owl Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Will there be bans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BirdonaMaguire Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 There should be mass resignations from the directors, a big eff off apology to the members for the ineptitude and any legal fees needed to recover the money to be met by any directors who served during the debacle of the non submissions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alleycat Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 So anyway, about Trev's money?? Any chance of any CURRENT director clarifying things? Amazing how when it came to having verbals on here with Blue Goggles you couldn't keep some of em off and now........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest _Ibbo_ Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 (edited) Despite my ramblings, the most important thing is the resolution of what happens with the supporters societies £30k. It's a LOT of cash to be left in limbo. Also I do hope that the legal advice isn't costing to much either. This needs to be open, and clearly communicated. Edited September 4, 2014 by _Ibbo_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Owl Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 There will be a full enquiry on this, anything less is totally unacceptable and an even bigger failure of leadership than everything that has gone before. It will be interesting to see exactly what comes out as a result. In the meantime let's try to avoid any nastiness shall we (dons tin hat)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 I don't consider there is any nastiness so far, just some decent questions being raised and no finger pointing other than referring to failure of responsibilities as a collective group of directors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Deleted member Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) I think it's only fair at this point to mention that the vast majority of people who serve on the board are not directors other than in name They are well meaning volunteers who only have an interest in raising money to help other fans and the widercommunity The more they are kicked over this the less likely they are to survive this, and that would be a huge loss to both fans and community I'm sure that knowing the directors as I do they will do the right thing and after that a line should be drawn. Let's not use this as just another stick to beat some really good people with Edited September 5, 2014 by Deleted member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevdi9 Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BirdonaMaguire Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 I think it's only fair at this point to mention that the vast majority of people who serve on the board are not directors other than in name They are well meaning volunteers who only have an interest in raising money to help other fans and the widercommunity The more they are kicked over this the less likely they are to survive this, and that would be a huge loss to both fans and community I'm sure that knowing the directors as I do they will do the right thing and after that a line should be drawn. Let's not use this as just another stick to beat some really good people with They should resign en masse, then be elected, via a true democratic to the new company only if they can prove their past actions were a benefit rather than a hindrance to the members, personally I think having a director 3k miles away who offers should go anyway, unless it drip feeds his ego and he needs it to survive. As you say they are some good people but their actions or lack if them could see some serious community money lost and costly recovery fees on the horizon. But hey they still have a car park....right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 I think it's only fair at this point to mention that the vast majority of people who serve on the board are not directors other than in name They are well meaning volunteers who only have an interest in raising money to help other fans and the widercommunity The more they are kicked over this the less likely they are to survive this, and that would be a huge loss to both fans and community I'm sure that knowing the directors as I do they will do the right thing and after that a line should be drawn. Let's not use this as just another stick to beat some really good people with So who were the legally appointed directors of Sheffield Wednesday Supporters Society Limited ? One of my personal bugbears when folk are given the title "director" but its not the real thing in terms of responsibility its just for ego None of this is beating with a stick but asking those that were responsible to put their hands up, explain why it was allowed to happen but absolutely what their plan is to account for the money that is frozen. If anyone deserves answers it is Trev, I need answers re wtid but tbh i will sort that somehow if need be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Deleted member Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 I think it's very unfair to suggest it's down to ego In my experience people who wanted to help were co opted as directors so that they could get involved. It was a regular drum I used to beat insisting we could get help from volunteers without then being directors. As it turned out it was hard to get help either way. There are various type of member Members who join to help the community Members who join to have a voice that will be heard by the club Members who join for the various discounts the group offer Members who join so they can park in the car park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Deleted member Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 wednesdayite collectively are. They are now operating as a limited company rather than a supporters group. completely differing rules apply now obviously. There might be formal rules for example that prohibits ltd companies taking on assets of socities etc. The £30K raised for community causes might well not be recoverable...... One thought that has just popped into my head..... ltd companies are covered by minimum wage laws. unlike socs or charities for example If wednesdayite ltd needs "volunteers" for example they might have to pay them the minimum wage. You can't donate money to a limitied company. Will Wednesday ltd have a P/L account etc. etv. Instead of a ltd company Wednesdayite could have set its self up as a charity. which might have made life a LOT easier for everyone... If the directors had been open about this and asked for advise on how to proceed. You are aware I left Wednesdayite a year ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Deleted member Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) A suggestion Ive been thinking about this mess this morning as I've been driving to a meeting, and I'm back now, so will try and formulate this into a suggested way forward - an idea. Wednesdayite Limited were formed on 17th July. All monies received after that date for memberships and car park permits/donations, are retained by Wednesdayite Limited. All monies received before that date (and any liabilities incurred) are summarised and a final balance put together. Legal advice is followed in order to transfer that sum of money to the Sheffield Wednesday Community Programme - with guidelines that it is used for the benefit of the local community and reported back to the fans. Wednesdayite and the new Supporters Club (both with the same legal entity, ie a not for profit Ltd Co by guarantee) are merged, and the name Wednesdayite is dropped. Any director of Wednesdayite who wants to continue to work for the benefit of the fans and the community is welcomed into the Supporters Club. I would make an exception for directors who have a political past, and therefore are tainted in the eyes of (some of) the fanbase. (I would include me in that :-) ) They should not be allowed to transfer and become directors of the Supporters Club. I would also make an exception for directors that have proven they have not contributed much in terms of effort for Wednesdayite during their terms, and these people know who they are. All the good stuff Wednesdayite do is rolled into the Supporters Club, the coaches to away games, the schools coaching (being extra careful to avoid duplicating the work done by Wednesdays Community Programme), the pre match bars, the events, the Smile tickets. I would also offer all Wednesdayite members the opportunity to transfer their membership to the Supporters Club, and offer a refund on their membership fee (as the Supporters Club membership is free). I would reiterate the message that the Supporters Club is absolutely non-political. I would strongly suggest that the supporters Club emphasise they will entertain no political posturing by members (regardless of how high-profile they are). The remaining directors of the Wednesdayite Ltd company decide what they intend to do with the organisation. Accept that mistakes were made in the past, learn from them, and move forward with willing volunteers involved in working with the club, fans and the community programme. Become a supporters club. Which is what Wednesdayite (IMHO) should have become when MM took over. It also means that those political types can create a new Supporters Trust if they feel its something they wish to pursue, which also means they can apply once again for the IPS status and the Supporters Direct membership Ive no idea whether the guys from Wednesdayite or the Supporters Club would be up for this - but I do think it would be a way to ensure that closure is achieved and that a way forward that should be acceptable to all but the most political of fans is progressed. Maybe its time for you guys to talk to each other?? Edited September 5, 2014 by Deleted member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 My point is give them a title but don't use the word "director". These volunteers could be construed to be shadow directors as a result and dragged into responsibilities above and beyond what they thought was arising Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 A suggestion Ive been thinking about this mess this morning as I've been driving to a meeting, and I'm back now, so will try and formulate this into a suggested way forward - an idea. Wednesdayite Limited were formed on 17th July. All monies received after that date for memberships and car park permits/donations, are retained by Wednesdayite Limited. All monies received before that date (and any liabilities incurred) are summarised and a final balance put together. Legal advice is followed in order to transfer that sum of money to the Sheffield Wednesday Community Programme - with guidelines that it is used for the benefit of the local community and reported back to the fans. Wednesdayite and the new Supporters Club (both with the same legal entity, ie a not for profit Ltd Co by guarantee) are merged, and the name Wednesdayite is dropped. Any director of Wednesdayite who wants to continue to work for the benefit of the fans and the community is welcomed into the Supporters Club. I would make an exception for directors who have a political past, and therefore are tainted in the eyes of (some of) the fanbase. (I would include me in that :-) ) They should not be allowed to transfer and become directors of the Supporters Club. I would also make an exception for directors that have proven they have not contributed much in terms of effort for Wednesdayite during their terms, and these people know who they are. All the good stuff Wednesdayite do is rolled into the Supporters Club, the coaches to away games, the schools coaching (being extra careful to avoid duplicating the work done by Wednesdays Community Programme), the pre match bars, the events, the Smile tickets. I would also offer all Wednesdayite members the opportunity to transfer their membership to the Supporters Club, and offer a refund on their membership fee (as the Supporters Club membership is free). I would reiterate the message that the Supporters Club is absolutely non-political. I would strongly suggest that the supporters Club emphasise they will entertain no political posturing by members (regardless of how high-profile they are). The remaining directors of the Wednesdayite Ltd company decide what they intend to do with the organisation. Accept that mistakes were made in the past, learn from them, and move forward with willing volunteers involved in working with the club, fans and the community programme. Become a supporters club. Which is what Wednesdayite (IMHO) should have become when MM took over. Ive no idea whether the guys from Wednesdayite or the Supporters Club would be up for this - but I do think it would be a way to ensure that closure is achieved and that a way forward that should be acceptable to all but the most political of fans is progressed. Maybe its time for you guys to talk to each other?? Nigel - you know I am because I sort of suggested this several months ago in posts on here and nothing has changed my mind. I have never criticised the day to day work undertaken by Wednesdayite and this must continue irrespective of the legal structure it is wrapped in. Equally the Supporters Club needs foot soldiers that have done it got the T shirt. I personally don't have the time or geographical location to drive this, what I do have is that organisational ability to keep matters on the straight and narrow with the boring bits. It really is down to the powers that be at Wednesdayite towers to say "yes lets go for it" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest _Ibbo_ Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) Its a right mess TBH. And i'm going to leave it at that. Edited September 5, 2014 by _Ibbo_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now