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If were now a "company limited by guarentee", Rather than an actual ltd company. This poses its own questions.

 

In British and Irish company law, a private company limited by guarantee is an alternative type of corporation used primarily for non-profit organisations that require legal personality. A company limited by guarantee does not usually have a share capital or shareholders, but instead has members who act as guarantors. The guarantors give an undertaking to contribute a nominal amount (typically very small) in the event of the winding up of the company.[1] It is often believed that such a company cannot distribute its profits to its members but (depending on the provisions of the articles) this is not actually true.[2] Converting a limited company to a Community Interest Company (CIC) removes this doubt entirely, as CICs feature an asset lock which prevents the extraction of profits. However, a company limited by guarantee that distributes its profits to members (nor CICs) would not be eligible for charitable status.

 

but instead has "members who act as guarantors".

 

All members may be on the hook now to contribute cash if another change is needed. 

 

Its a right mess. 

 

I've no answers. 

 

Has anyone actually thought this though properly, as it been explained to members how a company ltd by guarantee works with the membership ? 

 

Mate - the amount that members are 'in it for' is £1. Thats it.

 

You really need to look into things in more detail than googling and quoting Wikipedia

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I fully expect the financial issue at Wednesdayite to be resolved - and I absolutely support the suggestion that the money should be held by SWFC Community and used this season on community projects.

 

Aside from that, the great shame for me of what's happened at Wednesdayite and where I expect it to lead (the end of the organisation as a meaningful entity) is the prospective loss of the Car Park and Coach services, which were not only absolutely brilliant services for Owls fans, but just as importantly generated income that could be used to bring benefit to the club, its fans and its community.

 

I would absolutely support the idea of a merger between the new Wednesdayite entity and the Supporters' Club so that the core services could continue (and I'd hope that Paul, Jeff, Andy O'Donnell who I believe manages the Lounge and those responsible for delivering those services would come on board, free of the responsibility of also being Directors of a meaningless entity).

 

Furthermore, the funds that Wednesdayite took for membership and car park permits etc would allow the new Supporters Club to really push on with offering other events and services to fans - I for one would be keen to kick off the pre-match fiesta plans I've been working on, and I'm sure there will be at least two or three Owls who would like the opportunity to relaunch SMILE tickets and get deserving Wednesday fans to matches. 

 

This could be a really brilliant way to salvage something great from the wreckage of what's gone on - and furthermore finally establish a Supporters Club that can never be accused of having ulterior motives or be tainted by the past. 

 

I really hope that the guys at Wednesdayite give this some serious thought and also that Wednesday fans who were always suspicious of Wednesdayite as an organisation will stand up and be counted and see the potential of them getting involved in a supporters group that would have a considerable membership, the support of the club in establishing itself and some serious seed money with which to operate.

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Mate - the amount that members are 'in it for' is £1. Thats it.

 

You really need to look into things in more detail than googling and quoting Wikipedia

 

I did edit it after posting ;-) 

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I fully expect the financial issue at Wednesdayite to be resolved - and I absolutely support the suggestion that the money should be held by SWFC Community and used this season on community projects.

 

Aside from that, the great shame for me of what's happened at Wednesdayite and where I expect it to lead (the end of the organisation as a meaningful entity) is the prospective loss of the Car Park and Coach services, which were not only absolutely brilliant services for Owls fans, but just as importantly generated income that could be used to bring benefit to the club, its fans and its community.

 

I would absolutely support the idea of a merger between the new Wednesdayite entity and the Supporters' Club so that the core services could continue (and I'd hope that Paul, Jeff, Andy O'Donnell who I believe manages the Lounge and those responsible for delivering those services would come on board, free of the responsibility of also being Directors of a meaningless entity).

 

Furthermore, the funds that Wednesdayite took for membership and car park permits etc would allow the new Supporters Club to really push on with offering other events and services to fans - I for one would be keen to kick off the pre-match fiesta plans I've been working on, and I'm sure there will be at least two or three Owls who would like the opportunity to relaunch SMILE tickets and get deserving Wednesday fans to matches. 

 

This could be a really brilliant way to salvage something great from the wreckage of what's gone on - and furthermore finally establish a Supporters Club that can never be accused of having ulterior motives or be tainted by the past. 

 

I really hope that the guys at Wednesdayite give this some serious thought and also that Wednesday fans who were always suspicious of Wednesdayite as an organisation will stand up and be counted and see the potential of them getting involved in a supporters group that would have a considerable membership, the support of the club in establishing itself and some serious seed money with which to operate.

 

I'd echo Eddie's comments - it would be a crying shame to see all the good non political things that Wednesdayite do collapse.

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A suggestion

 

Ive been thinking about this mess this morning as I've been driving to a meeting, and I'm back now, so will try and formulate this into a suggested way forward - an idea. 

 

Wednesdayite Limited were formed on 17th July. All monies received after that date for memberships and car park permits/donations, are retained by Wednesdayite Limited. All monies received before that date (and any liabilities incurred) are summarised and a final balance put together. Legal advice is followed in order to transfer that sum of money to the Sheffield Wednesday Community Programme - with guidelines that it is used for the benefit of the local community and reported back to the fans.

 

Wednesdayite and the new Supporters Club (both with the same legal entity, ie a not for profit Ltd Co by guarantee) are merged, and the name Wednesdayite is dropped. Any director of Wednesdayite who wants to continue to work for the benefit of the fans and the community is welcomed into the Supporters Club. I would make an exception for directors who have a political past, and therefore are tainted in the eyes of (some of) the fanbase. (I would include me in that :-) ) They should not be allowed to transfer and become directors of the Supporters Club.

 

I would also make an exception for directors that have proven they have not contributed much in terms of effort for Wednesdayite during their terms, and these people know who they are.

 

All the good stuff Wednesdayite do is rolled into the Supporters Club, the coaches to away games, the schools coaching (being extra careful to avoid duplicating the work done by Wednesdays Community Programme), the pre match bars, the events, the Smile tickets. I would also offer all Wednesdayite members the opportunity to transfer their membership to the Supporters Club, and offer a refund on their membership fee (as the Supporters Club membership is free).

 

I would reiterate the message that the Supporters Club is absolutely non-political. I would strongly suggest that the supporters Club emphasise they will entertain no political posturing by members (regardless of how high-profile they are).

 

The remaining directors of the Wednesdayite Ltd company decide what they intend to do with the organisation. 

 

Accept that mistakes were made in the past, learn from them, and move forward with willing volunteers involved in working with the club, fans and the community programme. Become a supporters club. Which is what Wednesdayite (IMHO) should have become when MM took over.

 

It also means that those political types can create a new Supporters Trust if they feel its something they wish to pursue, which also means they can apply once again for the IPS status and the Supporters Direct membership

 

Ive no idea whether the guys from Wednesdayite or the Supporters Club would be up for this - but I do think it would be a way to ensure that closure is achieved and that a way forward that should be acceptable to all but the most political of fans is progressed.

 

Maybe its time for you guys to talk to each other??

 

 

Nigel - you know I am because I sort of suggested this several months ago in posts on here and nothing has changed my mind.

 

I have never criticised the day to day work undertaken by Wednesdayite and this must continue irrespective of the legal structure it is wrapped in.

 

Equally the Supporters Club needs foot soldiers that have done it got the T shirt. I personally don't have the time or geographical location to drive this, what I do have is that organisational ability to keep matters on the straight and narrow with the boring bits.

 

It really is down to the powers that be at Wednesdayite towers to say "yes lets go for it"

 

 

I fully expect the financial issue at Wednesdayite to be resolved - and I absolutely support the suggestion that the money should be held by SWFC Community and used this season on community projects.

 

Aside from that, the great shame for me of what's happened at Wednesdayite and where I expect it to lead (the end of the organisation as a meaningful entity) is the prospective loss of the Car Park and Coach services, which were not only absolutely brilliant services for Owls fans, but just as importantly generated income that could be used to bring benefit to the club, its fans and its community.

 

I would absolutely support the idea of a merger between the new Wednesdayite entity and the Supporters' Club so that the core services could continue (and I'd hope that Paul, Jeff, Andy O'Donnell who I believe manages the Lounge and those responsible for delivering those services would come on board, free of the responsibility of also being Directors of a meaningless entity).

 

Furthermore, the funds that Wednesdayite took for membership and car park permits etc would allow the new Supporters Club to really push on with offering other events and services to fans - I for one would be keen to kick off the pre-match fiesta plans I've been working on, and I'm sure there will be at least two or three Owls who would like the opportunity to relaunch SMILE tickets and get deserving Wednesday fans to matches. 

 

This could be a really brilliant way to salvage something great from the wreckage of what's gone on - and furthermore finally establish a Supporters Club that can never be accused of having ulterior motives or be tainted by the past. 

 

I really hope that the guys at Wednesdayite give this some serious thought and also that Wednesday fans who were always suspicious of Wednesdayite as an organisation will stand up and be counted and see the potential of them getting involved in a supporters group that would have a considerable membership, the support of the club in establishing itself and some serious seed money with which to operate.

 

 

I'd echo Eddie's comments - it would be a crying shame to see all the good non political things that Wednesdayite do collapse.

 

 

 

 

Well, I guess that means the ball is in Wednesdayites court then.

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Wow. This has all blown my mind.

Looking at the recent timeline, according to posts in this thread:

 
2012
27 February 2012 - Sheffield Wednesday Supporters Society Limited fined for not submitting returns to the FCA
c. November 2012 - Organisation 'struck off' by FCA
2013
c. January 2013 - Directors made aware by member seeing FCA notice information in newspaper
c. January 2013 - Then-Chairman attempts to clarify situation with FCA and is told decision can't be reversed, plans are made to communicate to members, but that doesn't come to fruition for various reasons
----
Summer 2013 - 2013/14 Season memberships collected
2013/14 Season - funds continue to be collected via schemes including car-park, lounge, etc
----
2014
21 July 2014 - Wednesdayite Limited incorporated
12 August 2014 - General meeting notice issues alluding to (without going into explicit detail and thus online and proxy votes may not have been voting with full awareness?) the new Wednesdayite Limited entity
30 August 2014 - General meeting of newco takes place
 
 
This suggests to me that for up to 18 months funds were appropriated via membership and other means in the knowledge that the entity with which it was being collected for didn't technically exist? Questions:
 
1) Which entity were those funds collected go to?
2) Where is that money now (i.e. which bank account were they paid into and is that money accessible outwith the c.£30k that previously belonged to the Supporters Society)?
3) People who paid memberships for the 2013/14 Season were paying memberships for what entity? (Apparently one no longer existed, as such, and a new one had not yet been formulated).
4) In light of all this, were memberships for 2013/14 Season even valid?
 
I also think previous questions posed as to legitimacy of whether the lease of the car park, any associated insurance details and other legal agreements were valid are pertinent too.
 
Also, whilst making representations to the club about the loans on the stadium, etc - what entity was doing this?
 
 
 
 
(BTW, I echo earlier comments that certain people do a hell of a lot, on a voluntary basis, and should be commended for doing so. I have every respect for those people.)
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some very intelligent questions in tis thread ,and very workable ideas I can see put forward ,

I put the question the money raised via my prints because it was given for a purpose in helping the community, Now if this becomes Frozen I won't be very happy as to put it in another way the amount raised could have been greatfully used by myself and Diane as you know I struggle making ends meet , but I leant towards the bigger picture and contributed it all bar one set of prints (which was put forward by the buyers for a holliday for us both which was and is much appreciated) ,,

to the smilefund for people who need it perhaps more than I do ,therefore if said monies or what is left is sitting doing nothing I would rather it goes to the best use possible , ie the community program either run by swfc or the new supporters group ,I haven't taken this decision lightly I may add but the purpose of the funds raised has to be used in the right context and used for the right people to benefit ,

Hope that makes sense,

in a nutshell there was a hell of a lot of work from the original painting through to the finished product so rather than it sit there doing nothing or even being lost to us all it has to be sorted before it's to late ,

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Trev - as I have said the rest pales into insignificance. This has got to be resolved

 

It is important, but the rest absolutely doesn't pale into insignificance.

 

What has happened to the prints money is just one part of quite a lot of significant questions in light of the revelations in this thread.

 

It all needs resolving, or at the least, clarifying.

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I think it's only fair at this point to mention that the vast majority of people who serve on the board are not directors other than in name

They are well meaning volunteers who only have an interest in raising money to help other fans and the widercommunity

The more they are kicked over this the less likely they are to survive this, and that would be a huge loss to both fans and community

I'm sure that knowing the directors as I do they will do the right thing and after that a line should be drawn.

Let's not use this as just another stick to beat some really good people with

 

And yet, in the OP, you felt the need to "name and shame" the chairmen in situ during the years the accounts weren't filed.

 

Tbh, naming them was just a sh*tty way of letting everyone know it didn't happen on your watch.

 

Bit like the school snitch really.

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And yet, in the OP, you felt the need to "name and shame" the chairmen in situ during the years the accounts weren't filed.

 

Tbh, naming them was just a sh*tty way of letting everyone know it didn't happen on your watch.

 

Bit like the school snitch really.

 

You could see it like that - yes.

 

I did that because its only a few short weeks ago that this site was full of accusations about it happening on my watch, and how I was responsible, without a single person from Wednesdayite standing up and correcting 'blue goggles' innaccurate postings.

 

Karmas a *****.

Edited by Deleted member
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And yet, in the OP, you felt the need to "name and shame" the chairmen in situ during the years the accounts weren't filed.

 

 

You could see it like that - yes.

 

I did it because its only a few short weeks ago that this site was full of accusations about it happening on my watch, and how I was responsible, without a single person from Wednesdayite standing up and correcting 'blue goggles' innaccurate postings.

 

Karmas a *****.

 

Tbh, naming them was just a sh*tty way of letting everyone know it didn't happen on your watch.

 

Bit like the school snitch really.

Let's make sure that there is a proper enquiry first. Once the full facts are out, then doubtless (this is Owlstalk after all) there will sadly be plenty of bloodletting. In the meantime let's keep an open mind, no doubt there will be a few surprises yet.

 

Suspect no-one will come out this with any credit, but equally as has been pointed out, these people are volunteers who are giving freely of their time for the benefit of the organisations members. People make honest mistakes and I am sure this is the root of the problem here.

Edited by Utah Owl
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You could see it like that - yes.

 

I did that because its only a few short weeks ago that this site was full of accusations about it happening on my watch, and how I was responsible, without a single person from Wednesdayite standing up and correcting 'blue goggles' innaccurate postings.

 

Karmas a *****.

 

In all fairness, whilst not being directly your fault as such, it did - partly - happen 'on your watch', being a director, or chair, for some of the period that returns were not made, fines were issued and the society lost its IPS status.

 

I suspect it might have, in part, happened 'on my watch' as a director too, which I'm apoplectic about, to be honest. I wasn't aware, nor have I been made aware since, having had to read about the situation in this very thread today.

 

I'm also very disconcerted about the way it has all been handled (or not) in the 18 months since the board were made aware and the newco formed.

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Let's make sure that there is a proper enquiry first. Once the full facts are out, then doubtless (this is Owlstalk after all) there will sadly be plenty of bloodletting. In the meantime let's keep an open mind, no doubt there will be a few surprises yet.

 

Suspect no-one will come out this with any credit, but equally as has been pointed out, these people are volunteers who are giving freely of their time for the benefit of the organisations members. People make honest mistakes and I am sure this is the root of the problem here.

 

I genuinely don't think there will be an inquiry.

 

Who has got time to conduct one? There are literally 3 people working at full steam for Wednesdayite - and they haven't time.

 

And I personally don't feel there needs to be one either. It happened. These people are volunteers, and what would an inquiry achieve? Some finger pointing and bloodletting - and for what?

 

What would be the actual benefit?

 

Nothing would change

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People make honest mistakes and I am sure this is the root of the problem here.

 

Knowing everyone involved and the hard work put in by most, as volunteers, I can absolutely guarantee this is the root of the problem.

 

 

Still needs investigating fully and findings published though, in my opinion. Imagine if such a thing had happened at the club; there'd be uproar!

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You could see it like that - yes.

 

I did that because its only a few short weeks ago that this site was full of accusations about it happening on my watch, and how I was responsible, without a single person from Wednesdayite standing up and correcting 'blue goggles' innaccurate postings.

 

Karmas a *****.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

It' a pity people have derailed your thread by voicing genuine concerns regarding the money raised by Trev and suchlike.

 

Still, as long as your ego's been satisfied, that's the main thing eh? Precious.

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Thanks for clearing that up.

 

It' a pity people have derailed your thread by voicing genuine concerns regarding the money raised by Trev and suchlike.

 

Still, as long as your ego's been satisfied, that's the main thing eh? Precious.

 

Agenda much?

 

I have set out, factually, information that has allowed people to establish and express those concerns. I have corrected misinformation given regarding what happened 'on my watch. I have accepted that I share responsibility for what happened since I joined as a director in July 2010. I have outlined what I did to try and establish what had happened, and what I did to try and organise an appeal.

 

I have asked for any questions, and delivered answers. I have suggested solutions. I have explained that Wednesdayite are taking legal advice. 

 

If you don't like that - well - tough.

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Agenda much?

 

I have set out, factually, information that has allowed people to establish and express those concerns. I have corrected misinformation given regarding what happened 'on my watch. I have accepted that I share responsibility for what happened since I joined as a director in July 2010. I have outlined what I did to try and establish what had happened, and what I did to try and organise an appeal.

 

I have asked for any questions, and delivered answers. I have suggested solutions. I have explained that Wednesdayite are taking legal advice. 

 

If you don't like that - well - tough.

You're fantastic!!

 

Apologies for thinking you're very sneaky in your postings and a bit "snitchish".

 

Btw. What do you reckon my agenda is then?

 

 

I`m currently driving in the Bahamas and won't be checking my phone that often so I'll post more later.

 

Then I'll be on a coach going to watch Wednesday in Outer Mongolia (ie, I'm a truefan) so may not post that often.

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