Dave Jones sacked?

[sheffield_dave]

I don't want Jones to be sacked, as there is a part of my brain that still remembers last season and in the incredible job he's done here prior to about a month ago.

But those who say give Jones time, what is your cut off point exactly? How many games do we have to lose before that opinion changes? When was the last time a manager survived 10 straight defeats either here or at any other club?

I like Jones and hope we can pick up a win tonight to get us back on track. This is one of those situations where just one win could be the difference at the minute. We need a clean sheet and a win even if it's a scrappy 1-0 smash and grab where we get dominated for 89 minutes but score from an own goal off somebody's arse in the 90th.

[mattitheowl]

Not for one minute am I suggesting we should sack Jones but I have a question. How much time do you give him? If we are sat here this time next week on the back of an 8 game losing streak is that enough time? Or do we go for 10-12 losses in a row before we start to look around.

At the moment every point dropped is a point closer to relegation which would be a disaster. What happens if we only manage 2-3 points in October? I'm all for giving time but you need to see improvement and this season all I have seen is the opposite. Started well and just getting worse. You can kid yourself that 1-0 at Wolves wasn't too bad but that is all you will be doing. We were awful and a total contrast to the team that hammered Brum. I wouldn't mind so much if we were looking good in terms of football and passion but there is just nothing there to suggest an improvement week on week.

[Guest Lawrie Maddens Hump]

The problem with the last 10 games(9 when you don,t count the derby)was the lack of a winger after we failed to secure the services of Marshall. As we were a big physical side who thrived on crosses and good set pieces this was the massive difference. If GM had got Antonio when he first went for him, just as the Marshall deal fell through, then the results would have been greatly different as shown in the derby game and future games when Antonio finally arrived.

Granted but you could easily form an argument for our current run based on injuries, etc.

What I'm trying to get across is that people are focusing in on the last five games and forgetting about what Jones did prior to that. All these people who think that Jones took over Megsons team and stole his glory are way off the mark. Things weren't right with the team prior to Megsons departure- we cannot deny that. I will even go as far as to stick my neck out and say we wouldn't have won automatic if he'd have stayed.

Getting back to the here and now, we are a team in transition, in a better league, with a better squad and in my opinion a better manager. I'm not sure what the cut off point is for Jones, only MM can answer this.

But, seriously there is no need to panic, or be blinded by sentiment. Jones and his team will come good, it's just a matter of time

Edited October 2, 2012 by Lawrie Maddens Hump

[DJMortimer]

I don't think I will ever bring myself to say that the manager should have x number of games. It's crude, considers no mitigation or context and could result in the wrong outcome being arrived at on little more than the accumulation of what we might call a run of bad luck.

[Guest Distraught!]

I don't think I will ever bring myself to say that the manager should have x number of games. It's crude, considers no mitigation or context and could result in the wrong outcome being arrived at on little more than the accumulation of what we might call a run of bad luck.

So how many games would you give him then?

[Chris E]

i'm only going on what i've seen and results...

the results speak for themselves, the only points gained were when we had more of last season's TEAM in there...

the performances are poor,in fact they look like a bunch of players that haven't met before, or even speak the same language...

picking semedo as captain???, bloke who gets his head down and ploughs on with his own game was a warning of dj's judgement...

i am aware we came up with a poor team, it needed altering...

but the nucleus of last season's side with some added quality was (for me) what was needed...

but to rip it apart after it started by taking (was it 7 from 9) points...

to leave us with this shambles...

IT HAS TO BE SORTED QUICKLY...

if dj does not sort it soon, someone WILL be brought in to do it for him...

But if Milan does go down that road, then the new man will still have a new squad of players that he has to gel together. I'd suggest that would be even harder with a new manager.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Chris E

[Guest Lawrie Maddens Hump]

i know how much i've seen in the last 5...

And prior to this!?

Let's hope you don't make a few mistakes in your life because, likewise, people might start forgetting what you was like before.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Lawrie Maddens Hump

[Guest Lawrie Maddens Hump]

So how many games would you give him then?

I'd say x amount!

[sheffield_dave]

I don't think I will ever bring myself to say that the manager should have x number of games. It's crude, considers no mitigation or context and could result in the wrong outcome being arrived at on little more than the accumulation of what we might call a run of bad luck.

Completley agree.

But it's all hypothetical as nobody here is making the decision anyway. I agree with those who suggest Jones deserves time but I'm curious exactly what they mean by that.

By the way, in terms of providing context to a situation, I'm not sure doing so actually helps Jones in this instance. I think there is a strong case to suggest that Jones' signings, team selections, tactics, system and speed in which he has appeared to cast aside members of a winning team would all contribute to any discussion about his position, and not in his favour either, as well as the simple numbers game regarding the current losing streak.

Edited October 2, 2012 by sheffield_dave

[Guest Lawrie Maddens Hump]

Completley agree.

But it's all hypothetical as nobody here is making the decision anyway. I agree with those who suggest Jones deserves time but I'm curious exactly what they mean by that.

By the way, in terms of providing context to a situation, I'm not sure doing so actually helps Jones in this instance. I think there is a strong case to suggest that Jones' signings, team selections, tactics, system and speed in which he has appeared to cast aside members of a winning team would all contribute to any discussion about his position, and not in his favour either, as well as the simple numbers game regarding the current losing streak.

In answer to your last paragraph, you could argue that it supports those who would suggest that it's contributed to our current dip in form.

Then there are those who would argue that it needed to be done because some of last years players aren't good enough.

Both are reasonable assumptions.

But only time will tell whether Jones is right or not to do what he's done.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Lawrie Maddens Hump

[Almat]

Here is my take. My instinct is always to stay with the chosen manager. My instinct is that changing managers, with a track record, never works.

We can all point to managerial changes, that with hindsight worked, Southampton, Norwich & us, with Megson. Conversely, you can find changes that have made things worse.

The only manager in recent times that I knew had to go, was Irvine. Definately.

With Dave Jones, I honestly don't know.

But, his recruitment, squad selection, tactics, fitness, motivation, interventions during the games, have been shambolic - reminiscent of Irvine TBH.

I really hope he knows what he is doing - because I haven't a clue, personally.

Should Milan stick or twist? I haven't a clue.

But, blind faith just isn't enough.

Surely if you truly believe the second highlighted line you should be sure he should go? Effectively you are saying he has failed at every aspect a manager needs to do well at?

Edited October 2, 2012 by Almat

[Guest Darkus Owlus]

He won't be sacked after this game, we haven't had a 'secret' hotel meeting to line up the next boss yet.

[Dagmeister]

In answer to your last paragraph, you could argue that it supports those who would suggest that it's contributed to our current dip in form.

Then there are those who would argue that it needed to be done because some of last years players aren't good enough.

There are those too who would argue that we were doing reasonably OK for the first few games and started to falter as more changes were made suggesting that the phasing was too rapid.

[tomhollywood]

I understand what people are saying about how much time would you give him but it's not a simple as that.

The negatvitiy/doubt/questioning him started after the 3rd defeat and all that happens is the pressure builds and builds. It spreads like wildfire on message boards, then on the terraces, then makes it's way on to the pitch because some neanderthal is abusing our players 5 minutes into the game so it's a vicious circle.

That coupled with what LMH alluded to with the "I want it all, I want it now" culture just makes things awkward.

Awkward sums up how I feel at the minute. It is awkward being a Wednesday fan.

[Guest Lawrie Maddens Hump]

Surely if you truly believe the second highlighted line you should be sure he should go? Effectively you are saying he has failed at every aspect a manager needs to do well at?

Totally agree.

Not sure how people have come to these conclusions in the space of 5 f*cking games!. It's comical.

[Dagmeister]

Totally agree.

Not sure how people have come to these conclusions in the space of 5 f*cking games!. It's comical.

Not sure that we have reached the point of conclusions but its 6 games and we are looking a shambles at the moment.

[Bob]

I would bet good money that MM does not want to have to sack DJ. He will want him to turn us around and,at the very least, get to mid table.

DJ must know that if we were in the bottom three in say, three weeks, his days are numbered. That's what happens in this business.

[Guest Lawrie Maddens Hump]

There are those too who would argue that we were doing reasonably OK for the first few games and started to falter as more changes were made suggesting that the phasing was too rapid.

On the same token we could argue that at the begining we were playing with confidence and no fear, but since our defeat against Palace we are now realising the stark reality of Championship football (this could be true not only for the players but also us, the fans).

Edited October 2, 2012 by Lawrie Maddens Hump

[Guest Lawrie Maddens Hump]

Not sure that we have reached the point of conclusions but its 6 games and we are looking a shambles at the moment.

Wasn't directing the comment at everyone, Dagmeister, just some.

I do agree that it hasn't been good over the last 6 games. But, I don't think we've been battered at the same time.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Lawrie Maddens Hump

[mattitheowl]

And prior to this!?

Let's hope you don't make a few mistakes in your life because, likewise, people might start forgetting what you was like before.

But you can say the same about Megson. You can't have it both ways mate. Up until the last few games under Megson we showed fight and passion. It vanished and so did he.

Jones' team has played good football with confidence, now that has vanished.

As the old saying goes - You are only as good as your last result.