Big Sam at Leeds

[markg]

I think he'll keep them up.

 

People will say that it's a backward step, like they always say that avoiding relegation with a manager over 50 is a backwards step. Really happy that Hodgson and Warnock are doing so well. 

 

Maybe the old tried and trusted wouldn't keep getting jobs if newer, younger managers knew what they were doing

[Ellis Rimmer]

Lots of English managers like Allardyce and Dyche get laughed at but they are too managers. English clubs don’t like to appoint managers like them because their faces don’t fit. If they were Italian they both would have been at top sides 

[SiJ]

3 minutes ago, Ellis Rimmer said:

Lots of English managers like Allardyce and Dyche get laughed at but they are too managers. English clubs don’t like to appoint managers like them because their faces don’t fit. If they were Italian they both would have been at top sides 

Would they bo11ocks. 

[SiJ]

That's not to dismiss them as managers. 

 

Both Big Sam, Sean Dyche are clearly good managers, but they are nowhere near the level of the truly elite managers. 

[Ellis Rimmer]

2 minutes ago, SiJ said:

Would they bo11ocks. 

Why wouldn’t they? Equivalent managers in serie a do

[SiJ]

Just now, Ellis Rimmer said:

Why wouldn’t they? Equivalent managers in serie a do

They really don't. 

 

Managing top clubs is a world away from managing Bolton and Blackburn, I'm sorry. 

 

The one "big" job Sam had (when he was relatively hot property) was Newcastle and he bombed there. 

[Ellis Rimmer]

2 minutes ago, SiJ said:

They really don't. 

 

Managing top clubs is a world away from managing Bolton and Blackburn, I'm sorry. 

 

The one "big" job Sam had (when he was relatively hot property) was Newcastle and he bombed there. 

Well if you go look at the CVs of Italian managers you will see they get promoted from the equivalent of Bolton and Blackburn. We scoff at it for some reason (to our detriment)

[SiJ]

Just now, Ellis Rimmer said:

Well if you go look at the CVs of Italian managers you will see they get promoted from the equivalent of Bolton and Blackburn. We scoff at it for some reason (to our detriment)

Yes, I'm sure the likes of City, Liverpool and so forth are kicking themselves for not appointing Big Sam and Sean Dyche. 

 

Not saying an English manager can't manage a top job, but Big Sam and Sean Dyche aren't at that level. 

 

Eddie Howe might be given the work he's doing at Newcastle. 

 

Graham Potter was just given a huge opportunity at Chelsea and bombed. 

 

Rog Hodgson at Liverpool anyone? 

 

Brendan Rodgers did ok, I suppose. 

[markg]

2 minutes ago, Ellis Rimmer said:

Well if you go look at the CVs of Italian managers you will see they get promoted from the equivalent of Bolton and Blackburn. We scoff at it for some reason (to our detriment)

I see what you are saying, but is that down to the fact that Italian managers, or Italian clubs further down Serie A at least tend to look for similar types of managers, and those types of managers aren't of a similar style to Big Sam.

 

Howe and Potter got a chance. Maybe the managers in Serie A that you mention are more like those two

[Ellis Rimmer]

2 minutes ago, SiJ said:

Yes, I'm sure the likes of City, Liverpool and so forth are kicking themselves for not appointing Big Sam and Sean Dyche. 

 

Not saying an English manager can't manage a top job, but Big Sam and Sean Dyche aren't at that level. 

 

Eddie Howe might be given the work he's doing at Newcastle. 

 

Graham Potter was just given a huge opportunity at Chelsea and bombed. 

 

Rog Hodgson at Liverpool anyone? 

 

Brendan Rodgers did ok, I suppose. 

It's the narrative that is created around these guys. It's not even at Man Utd level, European qualifier level teams don't tend to give them the chance, Burnley to Man Utd is too much of a leap, but Burnley to Spurs shouldn't be 

 

If you look at all these top Italian managers you'll see a decent job at Sampordoria or Cagliari etc will get you a move up, and that's why there are so many top managers. In England there tends to be a dead end at mid table clubs. 

[Ellis Rimmer]

2 minutes ago, markg said:

I see what you are saying, but is that down to the fact that Italian managers, or Italian clubs further down Serie A at least tend to look for similar types of managers, and those types of managers aren't of a similar style to Big Sam.

 

Howe and Potter got a chance. Maybe the managers in Serie A that you mention are more like those two

I don't think they're anything special, they just get the chances? Allegri, Conte, Pioli, Spalletii, they just all get the opportunity. Look at their CVs.

 

Granted Potter didn't do anything to help but again, in Italy he would probably get more chances if he did a good job at a mid table team. He won't ever get a chance at a top club in England. 

[markg]

Just now, Ellis Rimmer said:

I don't think they're anything special, they just get the chances? Allegri, Conte, Pioli, Spalletii, they just all get the opportunity. Look at their CVs.

 

Granted Potter didn't do anything to help but again, in Italy he would probably get more chances if he did a good job at a mid table team. He won't ever get a chance at a top club in England. 

Was a bit gutted for Potter as I rate him a lot. I think he'd have done well still at a different club near the level of Chelsea who weren't a complete basket case.

[ronnie]

4 minutes ago, Ellis Rimmer said:

I don't think they're anything special, they just get the chances? Allegri, Conte, Pioli, Spalletii, they just all get the opportunity. Look at their CVs.

 

Granted Potter didn't do anything to help but again, in Italy he would probably get more chances if he did a good job at a mid table team. He won't ever get a chance at a top club in England. 

He just did though, and failed. 

[owls maniac]

32 minutes ago, markg said:

I think he'll keep them up.

 

People will say that it's a backward step, like they always say that avoiding relegation with a manager over 50 is a backwards step. Really happy that Hodgson and Warnock are doing so well. 

 

Maybe the old tried and trusted wouldn't keep getting jobs if newer, younger managers knew what they were doing

Not convinced. He flopped at WBA and he had half a season there. Think he’s a busted flush now. 

[markg]

Just now, owls maniac said:

Not convinced. He flopped at WBA and he had half a season there. Think he’s a busted flush now. 

actually, I forgot about the WBA stint He made no impact there at all really, you're right

[Ellis Rimmer]

4 minutes ago, markg said:

Was a bit gutted for Potter as I rate him a lot. I think he'd have done well still at a different club near the level of Chelsea who weren't a complete basket case.

I think he will come good too. I think if you sign loads of players, of a relatively similar standard, the talent selection becomes very hard. He's already showing he wasn't so bad compared to Lampard. Lampard is a prime example of your face fitting. 

[SiJ]

Thing is, Big Sam did get his opportunity based off the work he did at Bolton. 

 

At the time, Newcastle was a big job (it's an even bigger job now after the takeover, but you get the point) and Sam bombed there, the fans hated him etc. 

 

He then went onto do good work at Blackburn, West Ham, Sunderland, Palace etc., before a so-so spell at Everton and then relegation with West Brom. 

 

At his best, he was a top half/mid-table PL manager which is nothing to be sniffed at. He did some great work, particularly at Bolton. 

[markg]

Just now, Ellis Rimmer said:

I think he will come good too. I think if you sign loads of players, of a relatively similar standard, the talent selection becomes very hard. He's already showing he wasn't so bad compared to Lampard. Lampard is a prime example of your face fitting. 

Exactly. I don't think anyone could succeed at Chelsea in the current state. They have history of downing tools even for established top managers when they fancy it. 

[SiJ]

2 minutes ago, owls maniac said:

Not convinced. He flopped at WBA and he had half a season there. Think he’s a busted flush now. 

Might have been his first relegation. Pretty sure he retired after that. 

 

Sounds like it was very much Leeds who contacted him. 

 

It's a proper desperate move. 

[SiJ]

1 minute ago, markg said:

Exactly. I don't think anyone could succeed at Chelsea in the current state. They have history of downing tools even for established top managers when they fancy it. 

No denying there are some mitigating circumstances as to why Potter flopped at Chelsea, but I don't think he helped himself. 

 

Just gave off the vibe of a guy who wasn't suited to managing a big club, with big expectations, but then the rot has been setting in with Chelsea for a long time. People forget how poor they were towards the backend of Tuchel's time.