Do we start afresh now with P&S / FFP?

[Guest Grandad]

3 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

How did Brighton do it 'clean'? 

They made a loss of £36M the season they were promoted, £23M the year before and £7M the year before that. 3-season loss totaling £66M.

Because the HUGE loss was made in the season they won promotion and therefore not declared until they were in the Premier League.

 

The season they were promoted they reported the £23m loss in the february.

 

They actually made losses of £7.3m and £8.5m in the 2 seasons before that - so their rolling total loss in the season they were promoted was actually £38.8m.

 

which is exactly within the rules

 

They literally went for it at the right time

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Grandad said:

Because the HUGE loss was made in the season they won promotion and therefore not declared until they were in the Premier League.

 

The season they were promoted they reported the £23m loss in the february.

 

They actually made losses of £7.3m and £8.5m in the 2 seasons before that - so their rolling total loss in the season they were promoted was actually £38.8m.

 

which is exactly within the rules

 

They literally went for it at the right time

 

Yeah, they escaped at the right time and within the rules as you say, but their promotion was funded by a single season in which they lost £36M. Within the rules but hardly 'clean'. Had they not been promoted that season they would have faced a deduction so their spending was too high but unlike us they managed to disappear over the horizon. 

[Guest Grandad]

Just now, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Yeah, they escaped at the right time and within the rules as you say, but their promotion was funded by a single season in which they lost £36M. Within the rules but hardly 'clean'. Had they not been promoted that season they would have faced a deduction so their spending was too high but unlike us they managed to disappear over the horizon. 

 

and the season before when they lost £23m

 

They did it brilliantly - and everybody knew they would be massively in the crap had they not gone up

 

Same as Wolves

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Grandad said:

 

and the season before when they lost £23m

 

They did it brilliantly - and everybody knew they would be massively in the crap had they not gone up

 

Same as Wolves

 

Wouldn't be surprised if it was the same situation for Leeds in terms of the 3-year rolling figure this year. Their accounts for this past season will surely see them above £39M for the 3 years to 2020 but as they are not due in yet, it doesn't matter as they won't be around in the EFL when they are due. 

[Guest Grandad]

2 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Wouldn't be surprised if it was the same situation for Leeds in terms of the 3-year rolling figure this year. Their accounts for this past season will surely see them above £39M for the 3 years to 2020 but as they are not due in yet, it doesn't matter as they won't be around in the EFL when they are due. 

You actually motivated me to look at Wolves

Their accounts show them making a loss of £20m reported in the season they went up - with 2 seasons of profit before that £7.4m and £2.3m

So they were only reporting a net loss of £10.3 over 3 seasons in their promotion season. 

 

in the season they went up they lost a staggering £55m - meaning they would have been at net -£65m over 3 years - giving them a -12 to start the season after like us had they not been promoted. Another team who worked the system brilliantly

[pazowl55]

42 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

But that's what Maguire's post intimates?

EG: We have been punished for 3 years up to and including 2017-18. At which point he is saying the clock is reset. So you 1 would be 2018-19 - a £13M loss allowable before sanctions are taken that don't include a points penalty (such as soft embargo, guided business plan) as points penalties are only applied after year 3 if £39M is breached.

 

If the clock is reset as that suggests then our year 1 is 2018-19 and will potentially be a profit if it includes the stadium sale. But that's not how I though it worked.

 

41 minutes ago, Grandad said:

 

Nor me

So it could be right then and we could effectively have a bit of money to spend.

[Guest Grandad]

1 minute ago, pazowl55 said:

 

So it could be right then and we could effectively have a bit of money to spend.

 

I think I'll wait and see it confirmed from someone other than that twitter guy before I get too excited  

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Wouldn't be surprised if it was the same situation for Leeds in terms of the 3-year rolling figure this year. Their accounts for this past season will surely see them above £39M for the 3 years to 2020 but as they are not due in yet, it doesn't matter as they won't be around in the EFL when they are due. 

 

Saying that, Leeds did seem pretty confident they would be inside P&S rules. The sales of the likes of Jansson, Roofe, their young goalie and Jack Clarke would have helped, Selling players for a fee to fend of the P&S problems, who would have thought it eh.

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, pazowl55 said:

 

So it could be right then and we could effectively have a bit of money to spend.

 

23 minutes ago, Grandad said:

 

I think I'll wait and see it confirmed from someone other than that twitter guy before I get too excited  

 

It might well be right.

Birmingham got deducted 9 points for a breach as per the 3 seasons accounts to 2017-18. This included a £37M loss in 2017-18 alone. 

 

In January of this year they filed the 2018-19 accounts - a loss of £8M. If the rolling 3-years had not been reset, then they would have breached again based on losses of £14.5M in 2016-17, £37M in 2017-18 and £8M in 2018-19. The fact they have not received another deduction based on this suggests that they have had a new 3-year clock start?

[billyblack]

43 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Wouldn't be surprised if it was the same situation for Leeds in terms of the 3-year rolling figure this year. Their accounts for this past season will surely see them above £39M for the 3 years to 2020 but as they are not due in yet, it doesn't matter as they won't be around in the EFL when they are due. 

Do you know that? What were their losses last year? They sold 27 million in players in the 18/19 season. 6.5 million season before that. 15.8 million season before that.

 

What did we do?

[alanharper]

4 hours ago, Nero said:

Here's another chart of the last 18 teams to be promoted - it might be of interest.

Green are the teams that were being financially doped via parachute payments when they went up.

Red are the team that were not, but of them, only Leeds, United and Huddersfield and arguably BHA have done it 'clean'.

If Fulham go up it would be 12 under the influence, 2 overspent FFP and 4 Clean. 

It puts our wrongdoing in a bit of context.

 

1

 

 

I don't know about Leeds, but of the "clean" clubs pigs, Brighton and Huddersfield all went up whilst making large losses as well. Maybe not enough to break FFP over 3 years, but well over the "permitted" £13m loss per year. Pigs and Huddersfield both lost over £21m in their promotion seasons, and as someone stated above Brighton threw loads at it and came out smelling of roses. 

 

I expect Swansea and Stoke to do a Norwich and Villa next season, getting a promotion in the final year of their parachute payments to worm out of financial disaster. 

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, billyblack said:

Do you know that? What were their losses last year? They sold 27 million in players in the 18/19 season. 6.5 million season before that. 15.8 million season before that.

 

What did we do?

 

 I agree, as per the follow I made to my own initial post an hour ago.

 

56 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

Saying that, Leeds did seem pretty confident they would be inside P&S rules. The sales of the likes of Jansson, Roofe, their young goalie and Jack Clarke would have helped, Selling players for a fee to fend of the P&S problems, who would have thought it eh.

 

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

1 hour ago, Grandad said:

You actually motivated me to look at Wolves

Their accounts show them making a loss of £20m reported in the season they went up - with 2 seasons of profit before that £7.4m and £2.3m

So they were only reporting a net loss of £10.3 over 3 seasons in their promotion season. 

 

in the season they went up they lost a staggering £55m - meaning they would have been at net -£65m over 3 years - giving them a -12 to start the season after like us had they not been promoted. Another team who worked the system brilliantly

Said at the time this was the way to do it

Instead we got a very half arsed attempt 

Spendageddon light.

[pazowl55]

1 hour ago, Grandad said:

 

I think I'll wait and see it confirmed from someone other than that twitter guy before I get too excited  

He does know what he is talking about in terms of finances though. Its his field. He is not just some random guy in that respect. All the top media outlets in this country have him speaking about this stuff all the time. No reason to not believe what he says.

[Guest Grandad]

1 hour ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

 

It might well be right.

Birmingham got deducted 9 points for a breach as per the 3 seasons accounts to 2017-18. This included a £37M loss in 2017-18 alone. 

 

In January of this year they filed the 2018-19 accounts - a loss of £8M. If the rolling 3-years had not been reset, then they would have breached again based on losses of £14.5M in 2016-17, £37M in 2017-18 and £8M in 2018-19. The fact they have not received another deduction based on this suggests that they have had a new 3-year clock start?

 

Unless the £37m was reset to £13m

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Grandad said:

 

Unless the £37m was reset to £13m

 

That doesn't make any sense does it? Resetting an accounting years figures with the upper limit? Nobody has suggested that happens have they?

[Guest Grandad]

1 minute ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

That doesn't make any sense does it? Resetting an accounting years figures with the upper limit? Nobody has suggested that happens have they?

I thought thats what Maguires tweet meant tbh

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Grandad said:

I thought thats what Maguires tweet meant tbh

 

Birmingham's £37M loss was in 2017-18 accounts.

 

Maguire's tweet, as below, suggests they hit the £13M per season 3-year reset button from 2018-19. The fact they recorded a loss of £8M in 2018-19 but this didn't lead to another points deduction does suggest it could be right.

 

 

6 hours ago, pazowl55 said:

How does it work then?

 

And what does this mean?

 

[Nero]

2 hours ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

How did Brighton do it 'clean'? 

They made a loss of £36M the season they were promoted, £23M the year before and £7M the year before that. 3-season loss totaling £66M.

Well I did say arguably 

[wellbeaten-the-owl]

2 hours ago, Grandad said:

 

and the season before when they lost £23m

 

They did it brilliantly - and everybody knew they would be massively in the crap had they not gone up

 

Same as Wolves

Big difference with BHA was IF they had failed they had players who were worth fortunes and could of sold to claw back that.

 

We made pig's ear of wasting all the money on crocks and "last pay day" merchants with zero sell on value and our big money signing was a player who had gone stale at Boro and was ill suited to our style of play.