Thank you Carlos Carvalhal

[Taximark]

On 01/01/2018 at 17:17, Bodhidharma said:

Biggest mistake by far was DC keeping him in summer.

 

 

 

 

Now looking like it .

Carlos might of took us to wembley in that first season but the hull game showed us what a bottle he was ...the season after totally bottled it - our best chance and this season his luck ran out ...any other experienced owner wouldve got shut after FF pen miss.

DC has to admit his part of the mess too.

[Big Ron's Sovereign]

33 minutes ago, Wakefield owl said:

 

Agree re investment in strikers although only one has been an absolute disaster.

 

I wasn't trying to criticise as such but I thought you saying exclude Hooper's goals was an attempt to exaggerate the problem.

Of course it doesn't need exaggerating as it's there for us all to see although Forestieri was injured for nearly all of 2017 and Fletcher has rarely been fully fit.

 

Which one ? 

[AwokenGiant]

34 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

 

Forestieri's absence has been enormous as we have no one else remotely as creative, and missing Lee's drive from midfield has also been a big factor. 

 

Where did you stand with CC in the end DJ? 

[DJMortimer]

Just now, AwokenGiant said:

 

Where did you stand with CC in the end DJ? 

 

After our spineless capitulation in the play-offs against Huddersfield, I was pretty ambivalent about him. But having finished 4th and come close to promotion it would have been a gutsy move to have removed him and not one I expected. It was clear early this season that things weren't working out and if I'd been chairman the decision would have been made several weeks before he eventually left as there was just no sign of a turnaround.

 

To be fair though, it would be interesting to know some of the details regarding recruitment and spending in particular, because Carvalhal may have received more than his fair share of the blame for that.

 

[AwokenGiant]

7 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

 

After our spineless capitulation in the play-offs against Huddersfield, I was pretty ambivalent about him. But having finished 4th and come close to promotion it would have been a gutsy move to have removed him and not one I expected. It was clear early this season that things weren't working out and if I'd been chairman the decision would have been made several weeks before he eventually left as there was just no sign of a turnaround.

 

To be fair though, it would be interesting to know some of the details regarding recruitment and spending in particular, because Carvalhal may have received more than his fair share of the blame for that.

 

 

Thanks - I think the recruitment side of things is significant, I’m not sure how much CC inputted in it and if he did, how many of the players brought in were his first choice. What is clear is that we haven’t signed anything like as a good a quality player as we did during the initial recruitment push. 

Edited January 4, 2018 by AwokenGiant

[Wakefield owl]

19 hours ago, TaxiMark said:

Now looking like it .

Carlos might of took us to wembley in that first season but the hull game showed us what a bottle he was ...the season after totally bottled it - our best chance and this season his luck ran out ...any other experienced owner wouldve got shut after FF pen miss.

DC has to admit his part of the mess too.

 

So a penalty miss should cost a manager his job?

[Earlsfieldowl]

Having moved clubs Carlos has also changed his diet..

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42565478

 

Not content with putting meat on the fire, he is asking for lobster at Swansea, only to be told he will get sardines.

 

The gift that keeps on giving...

 

 

Edited January 4, 2018 by Earlsfieldowl

[Taximark]

35 minutes ago, Wakefield owl said:

 

So a penalty miss should cost a manager his job?

See the bigger picture, its signalled the end of yet another failure. Apart from the late run and leeds collapsing it was a rather dull season to watch ...proven in the two games v hudd where had carlos have being more assertive we could have won promotion.

He should've gone straight after that pen.

 

 

[Wakefield owl]

59 minutes ago, TaxiMark said:

See the bigger picture, its signalled the end of yet another failure. Apart from the late run and leeds collapsing it was a rather dull season to watch ...proven in the two games v hudd where had carlos have being more assertive we could have won promotion.

He should've gone straight after that pen.

 

 

 

Yes but we could have won just as easily as Hudds did. I still believe we would have got promoted had it not been for the injuries we suffered, just as happened to Brighton the year before.

The bigger picture goes way beyond Carlos.

[Taximark]

17 minutes ago, Wakefield owl said:

 

Yes but we could have won just as easily as Hudds did. I still believe we would have got promoted had it not been for the injuries we suffered, just as happened to Brighton the year before.

The bigger picture goes way beyond Carlos.

But we lost .

We could have but reality mate we didnt.

 

[Big Ron's Sovereign]

2 minutes ago, TaxiMark said:

But we lost .

We could have but reality mate we didnt.

 

Would you have called for his head if we hadn’t? 

[Taximark]

9 minutes ago, Big Ron's Sovereign said:

Would you have called for his head if we hadn’t? 

Course not, because he would have achieved our goal, it illustrates its a fine line between success and failure.

No one can say we wasnt patient with carlos he was given a good crack even after losing to hudd he had a third crack and now we are sitting in 16th ....the alarm bells rang last season .

Edited January 4, 2018 by TaxiMark

[Ridgeback owl]

Stating the obvious but the buck stops well and truly at DC's door... Bosses in general having a good relationship with their employees is a good thing, having absolute blind faith and almost love for them is bad leadership IMO. 

Been said a thousand times already but DC is so far out of his depth it's frightening !!!

CC should have got his arse kicked after the Hull no show ( may have done I know), he certainly should have gone after the Huddersfield game. 

 

[DJMortimer]

7 minutes ago, Ridgeback owl said:

...he certainly should have gone after the Huddersfield game. 

 

A good deal of hindsight in some of these claims. And I say that as someone who was ambivalent about Carvalhal after the Huddersfield play-off defeat. What would the reaction have been to sacking someone who'd taken the club to 6th and 4th place finishes and with about 20 minutes of the play-off final left was only a goal away from the Premier League?

 

It's easy for supporters to play Fantasy Manager when their flippant and petulant whims have no real world consequences, but starting again at that point when it seemed we were improving (and many expected us to challenge strongly for the top two this season) would have been an enormous risk that could have backfired badly. Just ask Birmingham about how that kind of decision can work out. 

[Taximark]

7 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

 

A good deal of hindsight in some of these claims. And I say that as someone who was ambivalent about Carvalhal after the Huddersfield play-off defeat. What would the reaction have been to sacking someone who'd taken the club to 6th and 4th place finishes and with about 20 minutes of the play-off final left was only a goal away from the Premier League?

 

It's easy for supporters to play Fantasy Manager when their flippant and petulant whims have no real world consequences, but starting again at that point when it seemed we were improving (and many expected us to challenge strongly for the top two this season) would have been an enormous risk that could have backfired badly. Just ask Birmingham about how that kind of decision can work out. 

Birmingham sacked rowett after they had jus won and were sitting 6th in the league for zola...now that was madness at the time.

People were moaning about carlos most of last season until that late run thanks to leeds imploding and hudd resting a few weeks early .

We could have won hudd away in the first leg but we played a defensive stand off and the home game we threw it away bcz we looked like we were lacking fitness towards the end and hung on for pens .

Tbh we need this to rest now ...carlos is happy hes now in the pl, hes left us in a mess but most of us are happy hes gone and hopefully onwards and upwards with some new fresh ideas by the new man should he come in .

[Big Ron's Sovereign]

Many cite back and say Carlos should’ve gone after the Hull Play-off defeat.

 

So prior to Carlos coming in our highest finishing position since relegation from the Prem was 9th in 2006-07. The season before Carlos we finished 13th, before that it was 16th & 18th.

Carlos finishes 6th and gets us to our first ever Championship Play-off. We were beaten by a wonder strike against a team that had just dropped out of the Prem with parachute payments.

Not good enough say some so they want him sacked. Prior to Carlos coming in, from Jewell to Gray that is 10 managers in 15yrs.

How did our short term managers fare against our success?

 

Sack our most successful manager in @20 yrs because we missed out by 1 goal in a playoff final ??

 

 

[DJMortimer]

1 minute ago, Big Ron's Sovereign said:

Many cite back and say Carlos should’ve gone after the Hull Play-off defeat.

 

So prior to Carlos coming in our highest finishing position since relegation from the Prem was 9th in 2006-07. The season before Carlos we finished 13th, before that it was 16th & 18th.

Carlos finishes 6th and gets us to our first ever Championship Play-off. We were beaten by a wonder strike against a team that had just dropped out of the Prem with parachute payments.

Not good enough say some so they want him sacked. Prior to Carlos coming in, from Jewell to Gray that is 10 managers in 15yrs.

How did our short term managers fare against our success?

 

Sack our most successful manager in @20 yrs because we missed out by 1 goal in a playoff final ??

 

 

Let's be honest; we were completely overawed in that play-off final and never laid a glove on Hull. They had much more pedigree than us and all the opportunities to score in the game were at our end. Whilst we performed badly, it would have been complete lunacy to have sacked the manager at that point. Anyone saying that should have happened cannot be taken seriously and should get back to playing football manager games. We needed to learn the lessons and put the experience to use for the next challenge.

 

Although the cracks started to appear in the second season (and have widened steadily since), we actually made progress in terms of league position. Personally, I was livid with our pathetic surrender against Huddersfield and would not have been too bothered had Carvalhal been sacked then. But viewing the situation more calmly and objectively, that was never likely and would have been widely castigated as all too typical of modern short-termist idiocy.

 

 

[Taximark]

11 minutes ago, Big Ron's Sovereign said:

Many cite back and say Carlos should’ve gone after the Hull Play-off defeat.

 

So prior to Carlos coming in our highest finishing position since relegation from the Prem was 9th in 2006-07. The season before Carlos we finished 13th, before that it was 16th & 18th.

Carlos finishes 6th and gets us to our first ever Championship Play-off. We were beaten by a wonder strike against a team that had just dropped out of the Prem with parachute payments.

Not good enough say some so they want him sacked. Prior to Carlos coming in, from Jewell to Gray that is 10 managers in 15yrs.

How did our short term managers fare against our success?

 

Sack our most successful manager in @20 yrs because we missed out by 1 goal in a playoff final ??

 

 

Before carlos came we a no DC so no cash for decades ...so naturally carlos was allowed fortunes to spend as opposed to the previous lot under a shoe string budget.

For those past 20 years we were a yo yo club beteen league one and championship bottom half .

Thats why he was our most successful manager.

[Big Ron's Sovereign]

Just now, TaxiMark said:

Before carlos came we a no DC so no cash for decades ...so naturally carlos was allowed fortunes to spend as opposed to the previous lot under a shoe string budget.

For those past 20 years we were a yo yo club beteen league one and championship bottom half .

Thats why he was our most successful manager.

 

Wanting a manager sacked after where Carlos got us in the 1st season after what we’d endured the previous 20 smacks of Playstion football managing .

And as @DJMortimer said above, can’t be taken seriously 

[Taximark]

9 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

 

Let's be honest; we were completely overawed in that play-off final and never laid a glove on Hull. They had much more pedigree than us and all the opportunities to score in the game were at our end. Whilst we performed badly, it would have been complete lunacy to have sacked the manager at that point. Anyone saying that should have happened cannot be taken seriously and should get back to playing football manager games. We needed to learn the lessons and put the experience to use for the next challenge.

 

Although the cracks started to appear in the second season (and have widened steadily since), we actually made progress in terms of league position. Personally, I was livid with our pathetic surrender against Huddersfield and would not have been too bothered had Carvalhal been sacked then. But viewing the situation more calmly and objectively, that was never likely and would have been widely castigated as all too typical of modern short-termist idiocy.

 

 

Agree with most of it but i still would have got rid after hudd, that was a chance for the fans to part on good terms and a good chance for us to get a new bloke in with new fresh ideas and a clean slate .

Quite a few ( fans and media) at the time though were suggesting not and the key reason was because he knew the players well and they got on with him well and that they knew his system, also that carlos would clearly know what areas needed strengthening.

Looking back now those claims look naive.