Guest JonTheOwl66 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 JTO **** me...Err..John Terry...are you for real ******* div Exactly. That's one case in one game out of thousands across the world. Obviously there will be more unreported cases, but in the public eye - that's ONE case. What percentage is that? 0.000000001%? If you want to be really specific then you can chuck Suarez in there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRightSide Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 No they shouldn't. Because that's making it even more powerful. It's just increasing the influence of it even more by slapping bans on racists. To be fair - how often do you hear of footballers being racist now? Well I can think of 2 very high profile and recent examples, but I'm referring to fans too Following your methodology - we should just have the state of nature, right? No problems then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handball_!! Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Racism - ignore it and it'll just go away. Unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JonTheOwl66 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Well I can think of 2 very high profile and recent examples, but I'm referring to fans too Following your methodology - we should just have the state of nature, right? No problems then Not at all. It's similar to footballers coming out as gay. It's a massive taboo and people are gifting power to it unnecessarily. If there was no big media focus around it, there wouldn't be any problems. Campaigns like Kick It Out aren't doing anything except draw unnecessary attention to the matter at hand IMO. People KNOW racism isn't acceptable now - and it's so rare in football that it really isn't worth all the fuss. As a matter of interest, what is your general take on abuse in football? Should say, a footballer calling a referee a 'useless c*nt' be heavily punished too? If not - surely that's a bit hypocritical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarboro-owl Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 racism is alive and well, and existing in all creeds and cultures around the globe, petty squabbles and politically correct policing only serves to drive the more serious culprits underground Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRightSide Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Exactly. That's one case in one game out of thousands across the world. Obviously there will be more unreported cases, but in the public eye - that's ONE case. What percentage is that? 0.000000001%? If you want to be really specific then you can chuck Suarez in there too. I can think of plenty of examples from inside the football world This very thread is about such a situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukestheman82 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Racism - ignore it and it'll just go away. Unbelievable. A fire..Feed it and it will grow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JonTheOwl66 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Racism - ignore it and it'll just go away. Unbelievable. Correct. As I've already said - racism is just a bunch of words in reality. It gets its power from the public outcry that surrounds it at any mention of it. Do you think, for example, if racism was simply ignored that football players wouldn't attempt to upset other players by being racist towards them? Do you think Suarez would have been racist to Evra? Or that Italian player be racist towards Balotelli? If there wasn't such a big taboo about it. Believe me - I will never EVER condone racism - but I see it as something that just needs to be ignored. It's impossible to completely eradicate it. And if it wasn't such a big deal - people would soon grow bored of it. Just my take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRightSide Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) Correct. As I've already said - racism is just a bunch of words in reality. It gets its power from the public outcry that surrounds it at any mention of it. Do you think, for example, if racism was simply ignored that football players wouldn't attempt to upset other players by being racist towards them? Do you think Suarez would have been racist to Evra? Or that Italian player be racist towards Balotelli? If there wasn't such a big taboo about it. Believe me - I will never EVER condone racism - but I see it as something that just needs to be ignored. It's impossible to completely eradicate it. And if it wasn't such a big deal - people would soon grow bored of it. Just my take. So answer me this.Why have any deterrents? Why not exist in the State of Nature? Happy to wait until you read Leviathan before forming an answer Edited February 25, 2014 by McRightSide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JonTheOwl66 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I can think of plenty of examples from inside the football world This very thread is about such a situation Tell me what you define as 'plenty' Then tell me how many football games have taken place across the ENTIRE world during the time of these racist incidents. If you can then tell me racism is a widespread problem in football then I will be amazed. I believe it's now just a select group of people who engage in it now. And they continue to engage in it because they get a kick out of the reaction it generates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRightSide Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Tell me what you define as 'plenty' Then tell me how many football games have taken place across the ENTIRE world during the time of these racist incidents. If you can then tell me racism is a widespread problem in football then I will be amazed. I believe it's now just a select group of people who engage in it now. And they continue to engage in it because they get a kick out of the reaction it generates. Reading through this thread, it seems there have been plenty of instances at Hillsborough recently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JonTheOwl66 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 So answer me this. Why have any deterrents? Why not exist in the State of Nature? That's a pretty clear rhetorical question. Racism is not the same as murder is it? Crime needs to be deterred because it is a physical action. Racism is simply a verbal action, and therefore there is very little that can be done to pilfer it except ignore it IMO. It's just ludicrous to suggest punishing people severely for racism. The courts and prisons are rammed as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRightSide Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Not at all. It's similar to footballers coming out as ***. It's a MASSIVE taboo and people are gifting power to it unnecessarily. If there was no big media focus around it, there wouldn't be any problems. Campaigns like Kick It Out aren't doing anything except draw unnecessary attention to the matter at hand IMO. People KNOW racism isn't acceptable now - and it's so rare in football that it really isn't worth all the fuss. As a matter of interest, what is your general take on abuse in football? Should say, a footballer calling a referee a 'useless c*nt' be heavily punished too? If not - surely that's a bit hypocritical? Disagree. If you drive acceptance through change you can create a shift in beliefs Why do you think people - you know, world leaders, peace makers, philanthropists - bring stuff into the public domain? According to your logic, Martin Luther King should have kept schtum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JonTheOwl66 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Reading through this thread, it seems there have been plenty of instances at Hillsborough recently As ive already said, define plenty. I have only heard two accounts of racism in all my time of going to Hillsborough. One of them resulted in the guy being smacked in the face, and I personally reported the other for calling JJ a 'monkey' Obscene? Yes. Widespread? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRightSide Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 That's a pretty clear rhetorical question. Racism is not the same as murder is it? Crime needs to be deterred because it is a physical action. Racism is simply a verbal action, and therefore there is very little that can be done to pilfer it except ignore it IMO. It's just ludicrous to suggest punishing people severely for racism. The courts and prisons are rammed as it is. Racism is a crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRightSide Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 As ive already said, define plenty. I have only heard two accounts of racism in all my time of going to Hillsborough. One of them resulted in the guy being smacked in the face, and I personally reported the other for calling JJ a 'monkey' Obscene? Yes. Widespread? No. If you believed what you are saying, you shouldn't have reported it. End of thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Racial discrimination is not simply a verbal action. Just ignoring it will not make it go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JonTheOwl66 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Disagree. If you drive acceptance through change you can create a shift in beliefs Why do you think people - you know, world leaders, peace makers, philanthropists - bring stuff into the public domain? According to your logic, Martin Luther King should have kept schtum No - that's not right at all. My logic suggests that racism has developed into such a miniscule irritant that it no longer needs a massive public reaction at one incident of racism. Are you trying to suggest that I'm all for slavery? And for ethnic minorities to be segregated away from White people? You know thats not the case - severe action needed to be taken prior to the 21st century. Largely now, racism isn't a massive problem in economically developed countries. Slavery is non-existant really in Europe. We are arguing over a few choice words - it's hardly 1920s America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JonTheOwl66 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 If you believed what you are saying, you shouldn't have reported it. End of thread. I reported him because he had been winding me with his crap for the past five years and wanted him kicked out. The racism tipped me over the edge. Racial discrimination is not simply a verbal action. Just ignoring it will not make it go away. What is it then? I don't see any footballers being chained up and sold as slaves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarboro-owl Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Reading through this thread, it seems there have been plenty of instances at Hillsborough recently shouting abuse from the stands, (words) culprit gets a banning order and a fine a white guy gets employed over a more experienced black guy, boss gets nothing seems words are more serious than deeds is that how we fight the racists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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