Watford System?

[scram]

2 hours ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

I can well understand the need for a general approach. A club blueprint for want of a better word to ensure long term progress and stability. 

But how much input do managers have into the individual signings? 

It might seem a small thing in the bigger scheme and I understand that a manger or coaches job is to get the best out of the hand he's dealt.  

 

But as I said in my earlier post (though it was an extreme example to emphasises the point!) Does this not leave a risk of managers who play a certain way having their hands tied by the the squad assembled on their behalf? 

And could this impact upon the results if they pick the players that suit how they see things and ignore the players being brought in?

 

It's a genuine question as I don't know about the inner workings of modern football clubs. 

 

 

I font think it's an absolute - ie the manager can have no input into signings at any time ever

 

It's more the overriding philosophy of a system that means a manager is govern a squad of players and told to get the next tune out of them possible

 

I'm left to believe at Watford the manager can choose his own coaching staff but the bulk of the infrastructure of the club remains untouchable

 

I don't think there is any pressure or insistence to play this player or that formation.

 

They also have a"player trading" model where players are expected to be sold at certain value points.  They also have quite a few young players from the continent who are yet to set foot in the country - they will remain on loan unless/until the time is right for them to be added to the Watford squad - or be sold

 

It's very similar to the Udinese model - a club the family owners of Watford also own

 

Its probably why Watford go for continental coaches - because they are entirely used to this way of working

 

And so far its working for them fairly spectacularly

[Animis]

CC has said, as recent as Wednesday evening, that there's only two people who make decisions at the club - DC and him.

[EveryWednesday]

1 hour ago, Animis said:

CC has said, as recent as Wednesday evening, that there's only two people who make decisions at the club - DC and him.

So Carlos brought in Emmanuelson on big wages and never played him? Carlos brought in Rhodes and Winnall and keeps them benched, when he clearly thinks Nuhiu can do the job?

Carlos brought in all these players and puts out the same team in the playoffs (bar Fletch) that we used last year?

That's even worse imo. Shows he's wasted money whilst not strengthening the starting 11

[Blatter]

19 hours ago, EveryWednesday said:

This is a post about Wednesday's transfer system so please don't move it mods.

 

Watford chairman or CEO/president or whatever they call him has just been on 5 live explaining that they appoint a manager to work within the philosophy of the club not to shape their own. In this way the managers are not directly involved in contract or transfer negotiations, they can give recommendations but it's sorted upstairs. God was on the show too (Chris Waddle). He said it was the system at Marseille and he liked it as the manager had to concentrate on training, team selection and winning matches.

 

Now my question, are we running the same system at Hillsborough?

 

Because that would explain why we are making big money signings that the manager doesn't put in the team and why we don't get the best out of players like Rhodes and Abdi. Also might explain the appointment of a continental manager.

 

I know we had the advisory group when chansiri took over but then Roader (I think) left. But perhaps we still give Carlos minimal input into signings? 

 

I'm sure someone on here must know

Have posted along similar lines in the past.

It seems the only explanation for the way that some of the players signed this season have rarely been used.

It also indicates a divergance between the views of the current head coach and the overarching philosophy of the club  (owner).

 

This week's meeting between Carlos and Chansiri should give some clarity.

[Buxtongent]

Two points - the first- of the transfers made this season, the ones used by Carlos have to a large extent been those players that OT members have been asking for. There was an outcry on here for us to buy McGugan after a loan spell with us. Abdi looked to be a good signing after we asked for a fast winger.. We wanted a centre forward, Joao was brought in, followed by what I still see as a 'second-best' buy of Winnall (scoring goals in the Championship, apparently at will for Barnsley) followed by the purchase of Rhodes, as the man all Wednesdayites were crying out for.. The pre-season catch was not of the best, I agree, but if a player doesn't want to sign, no amount of money will persuade him to do do. Thus , OUR choices have not been exactly world-beaters. Good players adapt to the system.

Secondly- with regard to the team selection- go to Hillsborough any match day, and question any ten chaps/chapesses on what their team selection would be. I guarantee you will finish with a minimum of 5 different sides. Hence it must be the responsibility of One man to chose his side.Don't forget the classic definition of a camel - a horse designed by a committee.

Finally, a quick glance at last two years finishing League positions-

2015-16

Promoted :-Burnley, Middlesbrough*, Hull* - 5th Brighton  6th Sheff. Wed        *subsequently relegated next season.

216-2017

Promoted :- Brighton, Newcastle#, Reading/Huddesfield, -4th /5th Sheffield Wednesday  #newly relegated.

 

That, while disappointing to all Wednesday supporters, cannot by any stretch be called failure. 

[brian joicey]

21 hours ago, EveryWednesday said:

 

Carlos grew more cautious while the top brass still concentrated on bringing in attacking talent (Rhodes, Winnall, Macca, Abdi)?

That would explain a mismatch

which basically means things can't go on the way we have been doing them!! 

[JanikowskiSWFC]

22 hours ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

The issues that arise out of this are whether your signings are coming from the top drawer. And whether they fit the way you play.

 

For example and seeing as he's mention in the OP.

When Waddle went to Marseille....

IF the manager said "get me a winger" he'd have been delighted that they got Waddle as he was a World Class talent. 

"Get me a striker."  Papin joins.  Again world class. 

 

But the lower down you go the more teams rely on the team unit than having world class match winning talent who can win games off the cuff.

 

 

Imagine this style of operation at Wimbledon with Dave Bassett...

 

Bassett :

Get me a striker, we're one player away from promotion

 

Two days later....

 

 

Committee 

.We have signed Robert Fleck  for you

 

Bassett :

Fleck! Erm....I don't know if you've noticed how we play.....I need someone 6"4 

 

Committee :

But the lads an excellent reputation

 

Bassett :

Oh. He's a lovely little player, no doubt.

But I can't play him. He doesn't fit what the other ten players are doing!

 

Committee :

Dave, you'll have to.We'll look mugs with the fans if he doesn't play

 

Bassett:

We're a route one outfit, he's 4"9 tall!

 

Committee:

Well you'll have to try and play it on the floor to suit him then.

 

Bassett:

But the other 10 players cant play football! they're a rag tag mob of physical bullies

You can't change a system that suits ten to suit one

 

Commitee:

Well, we've signed him now.

 

Bassett:

fackin hell. I wish you'd let me sort it out. I know what we need to fit the system. 

How much is left in the kitty? I could still get Fashanu from Millwall for about £100k and he'll get us 100 goals in 250 games.

 

Commitee:

Erm, the kittys empty ,Dave.

 

Bassett:

How do you mean empty?!

 

Commitee

Fleck cost £1.2m

 

Bassett:

Shitabrick I could have got Fash AND had £1.8 left to get one or two others in for that.

Almost certainly guaranteeing promotion  and we coulda built some new bogs and bought a team coach.

Fackin hell  

Underrated post.