When in trouble keep it simple. Round pegs and all that....

[Errol Flashman]

There’s one saying in football that we’ve all heard a thousand times and more.  “When things aren’t going well you need to keep things simple and put round pegs in round holes”

 

I know that we have injuries at present. I know that like the rest of Sheffield The Wednesday have been suffering with a bug in the camp. But last night really took us to new levels of square pegs in round holes.

 

Helan on the wing (I’m not discussing his merits as a player or not here.- there’s other threads-  But for me if he’s anything it’s a reserve left back not a supporting winger.)

 

We’d a midfield player at right back.  A right back starting on the flank and then ending up behind the centre forward.

It was a very negative line up full stops for a home game. A lone striker supposedly supported by full backs and two holding players who are known for anything but their passing and attacking guile.

 

We’ve all said it was a pants display, and rightly so, but is it any wonder really when we’re playing a half decent side that’s just come down from the Premier League and we have a side with players who have hardly had a look-in this season starting, and starting out of position.

 

I’m not going to dig into Gray, there’s enough threads on that already. But I will say despite the game being cut short and the condition it was a bit more positive in the second half , I just don’t know why we didn’t start in that system.

 

For the next match , I would hope with people returning that we can get players in areas of the pitch where they are comfortable and can do what best suits their abilities -:

 

A midfield that can get a foot in, use the ball positively and nick the odd goal between them. Energetic full backs. Someone to support Wickham up top and someone to go and find the spaces, someone to thread balls through, move the play and prompt and cajole from space.

 

For what’s it’s worth. Of the current squad, on current form and getting the best players in the areas best suited to them I’d go with this till further notice....players where we know they can be comfortable...

 

 

 

                                   Martinez

              Johnson            Llera            Loovens

Lee                       Palmer        Coke                   Mattock

                                       McCabe

                      J.Johnson                Wickham 

 

 

 

NB- I know some will take exception with Llera but for all his faults I don’t think for a minute there would have been a free header on the first passage of play for their goal last night.  And with Loovens using his experience to sweep and allow someone to attack the first ball knowing there's an insurance policy behind him it’s a gamble I would take.

 

Also think that this system would allow us to combat the sides that play with the now fashionable clogged up midfield of 4-5-1/4-3-3 .

Edited December 19, 2013 by DEH9

[Ronnie Starling]

Yes when you are defending in poor conditions dont try and play football in and around your penalty area put the ball into the channels behind the opponents full backs and let them worry about it.

[fife_owl]

Your suggested team / formation does fit the players available better.

I don't think we'll see it any time soon though. Three centre halves seems to be a no-no.

[vulva]

Starting out with 1 up front like we did last night gives a negative message to the opposition. We gave them far too much respect.

[ramone]

In principal I really like the idea - In reality....

 

• JJ is a winger - square peg, round hole
• McCabe hasn't played for a while, theres obviously a reason for this
• The midfield is so lightweight its untrue
• Playing 3 at the back take A LOT of work on the training pitch. Not a system any of the players are likely to have played in before. Its not just a case of going out there and playing, it needs time
• Not sure Mattock is fit enough to do that job
• Would leave us very isolated on the flanks with teams playing 4-4-2 - basically you end up playing 5 at the back - we are poor enough at supporting the strikers as it is 

[jayzman]

Yes when you are defending in poor conditions dont try and play football in and around your penalty area put the ball into the channels behind the opponents full backs and let them worry about it.

 

Is that the English Channel

[Errol Flashman]

 

 

 

• JJ is a winger - square peg, round hole
• McCabe hasn't played for a while, theres obviously a reason for this
• The midfield is so lightweight its untrue
• Playing 3 at the back take A LOT of work on the training pitch. Not a system any of the players are likely to have played in before. Its not just a case of going out there and playing, it needs time
• Not sure Mattock is fit enough to do that job
• Would leave us very isolated on the flanks with teams playing 4-4-2 - basically you end up playing 5 at the back - we are poor enough at supporting the strikers as it is 

 

Good post mate. Enjoy it when we can all have proper debates on here !

 

Obviously there are a few changes that could be made.  There’s a couple of positions in there for example where there’s a couple of options.

For example if he was fit I’d have Gardner in the back three.

 

 

 

• JJ is a winger - square peg, round hole

Decent pull about JJ being a winger. Which I know he’s classed as in the programme, the website etc.

But, and it’s just my personal view I don’t think he is one – he reminds me of a very, very poor version of Walcott :st2:  – (wait hear me out guys  !!)

He uses devastating pace to beat a man, and then the delivery …well. You’ve about as much chance of picking the lottery numbers as predicting where one of JJ’s crosses is going to end up so the forwards have no chance.

I’d just use him up top as a forward getting after things. Hopefully getting on some of the thru balls and maybe hitting the target one on five attempts !

 

 

 

• McCabe hasn't played for a while, theres obviously a reason for this

McCabe yeah, know what you mean, and possibly not match ready to boot. I just see him as someone with a bit of craft in there and think without the defensive shackles and having to motor up and down it would suit him. There is an argument you could sit Semedo in and push Coke into that role, he did have a goals knack when we first signed him. Could even start Nuihu and put JJ in a deep role. (you'll not get the passing spark but he'd be a bugger to pick up when he got a head o steam up.)

 

 

 

• The midfield is so lightweight its untrue

It’s quite light weight. But matched up I think that Coke isn’t afraid to put himself about (he gave Sidwell a good bashing in the LC last year and he rates himself a tough guy. (sidwell)  and though we haven’t seen Palmer given a chance in his preferred role he’s won headers and tackles at full back enough to persuade me he can put it about and look after himself and he has had games in there for Tranmere.

 

• Playing 3 at the back take A LOT of work on the training pitch. Not a system any of the players are likely to have played in before. Its not just a case of going out there and playing, it needs time

I remain hopefull they aren’t too busy to be spending time on the training pitch practising 3 at the back !!

A couple of them have experience of it already. Roger J. played in a back three at Wycomb under John Gorman and Celtic have regularly played a back three over the years so I’d hope them two could do it. Not sure about Gardener and Llera though. 

 

 

 

• Not sure Mattock is fit enough to do that job

I have no defence of this really other than saying that Reda and Helan are the other options. Agree re Mattocks fitness. Though perhaps with a proper run of games and match sharpness perhaps . What you reckon…. ?

 

 

• Would leave us very isolated on the flanks with teams playing 4-4-2 - basically you end up playing 5 at the back - we are poor enough at supporting the strikers as it is

 

As a rule I’d agree 100%. I Personally I have never really ‘liked’ this system for that simple reason. However, If we worked on it and if the centre halves push were to push out wide  when we have possession we can go 2v2, with Centre hal and wing back and with two up front prepared to give an 'outball'  into the Gully sometimes makes it 3v2 in our favour. If they (the fowards) also close down the full backs when we lose the ball there are ways to make it 2v2 with wing back and forward doubling up.  As Wigan showed us last night by Crainey and the other fella not being bothered in the slightest about being out numbered and Shotton when attacking and McLean when defending making the numbers even..

[Errol Flashman]

Starting out with 1 up front like we did last night gives a negative message to the opposition. We gave them far too much respect.

Exactly my thoughts. Every time we come up against a team who play 5 in the middle we try to match them. Which is fair enough, but we always sacrifice a striker to do it.

I just think if we’re going to play 5 across to match them up we should sacrifice a defender instead. We struggle to score with two up never mind one.

And though some would panic with three at the back, we don’t look like keeping clean sheets with 4 back there so may as well keep some attacking impetus up top.

[The Night-Owl]

A interesting idea. Part of the problem of DJ's reign and of his own making, was that he never seemed to give the whole squad a fair chance or play players based on form and he'd leave some under-performing out of form players in the starting eleven time and time again. I think Stuart Gray is also guilty of this. I hope if or when a new guy comes in that he'll give the whole squad a clean slate, including players that are out on loan, etc and give the whole squad a fair chance to impress and earn the shirt, whilst playing players in their most suitable positions and based on form. I have no idea what our strongest formation is due to the unbalanced mess of a squad Dave Jones created after promotion however I'd like to see a fresh approach and something different, plus I'd like our team to pressurise the opposition more to win the ball back, play it about effectively and set up in a more attacking manner at home in the future.   

[fatzooma]

I do like the large font.

[Errol Flashman]

I do like the large font.

No choice wi my eyesight !

[POWP]

                                   Martinez

              Johnson            Llera            Loovens

Lee                       Palmer        Coke                   Mattock

                                       McCabe

                      J.Johnson                Wickham 

 

As others have mentioned, the fact that it would take time to get a back three to become workable and that we'd be extremely exposed on the flanks surely just rules this out. It's the sort of thing we could try in pre season and get right before it matters, but right now we're in a relegation fight and I don't feel we can risk experiments like this.

 

 

Personally I'd look to something more like this (which isn't a million miles away from where we are formation wise, but maybe more tactically).

 

 

                                      Martinez

                         Johnson          Loovens

Lee                                                                Mattock

                                     semedo

                         Coke                   McCabe

         Maghoma                                              JJ

                                    Wickham

 

 

 

So in defence is would shift to this which gives us the solid midfield area with cover for centre backs, keeping them more in position with semedo advancing etc.

 

 

 

                                    Martinez

Lee                  Johnson          Loovens          Mattock

                                     semedo

  Maghoma          Coke               McCabe           JJ

  

                                    Wickham

 

 

Whilst attacking Mags and JJ would move more central at times to offer support to Wickham, allowing Lee and Mattock to push up to offer more consistent crosses when required whilst semedo stays back to offer more defensive cover against a counter attacks.

 

                                    Martinez

 

                 Johnson                         Loovens

                                     semedo

 

Lee                                                                           Mattock

                         Coke                   McCabe

         Maghoma           Wickham                   JJ

 

 

If JJ and mags were to find a bit of scoring form I feel this could really pay off.

The centre mid still looks a little weak, but what options do we realistically have here? At least semedo's cover could fill in gaps of coke and McCabes play I suppose? When fit I'd see buxton moving back in and lee moving more central... maybe that would help?

 

 

But ideally I'd love to see us playing 442. I still think mags could perform the creative central mid role at some point, but we just don't have the squad to play this successfully week in week out unfortunately.

 

Still don't understand how we've ended up with so many holes in our squad?