Guest Leeswfc3 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Policing over the years has evolved Cops no longer wade into nightclubs and jump into fights and stop em.. instead they'll let it die down, turn up, then use the CCTV and witness accounts to prosecute.. safer Safer for them....not the public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 Safer for them....not the public. They should be kept safe also Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darbo Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 They should be kept safe also At what cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 At what cost? Why should there be a trade off? Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darbo Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Why should there be a trade off? OK let me put it another way, at what point do the police allow an innocent person to be assaulted in order to protect their own safety, surely they have a duty to protect the public which may result in putting themselves in danger.It's like saying a soldier should never be shot at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 It's like saying a soldier should never be shot at. Soliders are suing the army now - as are families who lost their loved ones Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest totemowl Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 OK let me put it another way, at what point do the police allow an innocent person to be assaulted in order to protect their own safety, surely they have a duty to protect the public which may result in putting themselves in danger. It's like saying a soldier should never be shot at. Use your common sense. Soldiers do their best not to be shot at. If the police had waded into the lepp to try and arrest this thug, they'd have risked injuring innocent bystanders (well, some Leeds fans might have been), getting injured themselves, losing control of other areas, encouraging a riot and so on. They had very clear images of the thug and probably knew from past experience that they'd easily catch him over the followi g few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darbo Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Soliders are suing the army now - as are families who lost their loved ones But does that make it right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt_Hatstand Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Gathering good evidence that can be used to successfully prosecute morons who do this kind of stuff, stopping them doing it again, is absolutely vital IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owl in Nottingham Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Gathering good evidence that can be used to successfully prosecute morons who do this kind of stuff, stopping them doing it again, is absolutely vital IMHO Have to agree. yes policing has moved on. get the evidence and prosecute does make the innocent safer. Wading in rarely stops things quick enough. Better to get the thugs put away then we are all safer. Football is miles safer than it was in the 70s and 80s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darbo Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Use your common sense. Soldiers do their best not to be shot at. If the police had waded into the lepp to try and arrest this thug, they'd have risked injuring innocent bystanders (well, some Leeds fans might have been), getting injured themselves, losing control of other areas, encouraging a riot and so on. They had very clear images of the thug and probably knew from past experience that they'd easily catch him over the followi g few days. So you would be quite happy if this thug had gone on to injure someone else between the time of the attack and being arrested a couple of days later? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Royds Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Why should there be a trade off? Last year's riot (a real one's as opposed to Mr Mann MP version of constitutes a riot) escalated not only around the Tottenham, but around the country because the Police failed to enforce the law and stood back. Ironically, SYP was praised for not standing back and being proactive by arresting people trying to stir up trouble and monitoring social media web sites.For us law abiding citizens I would like the police to protect me and my family rather than film the event. I'm sure that young Leeds fan and his family would feel the same after an advertising hoarding hit him on the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jimmyc Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Had a few questions along the lines of why the police were only filming the North Stand during the Leeds United game This is unfair as the police were right in the middle of the West Stand upper issues filming the away fans I'm assuming the videographer's job is just that - to simply film the activities of any hoolies to use as evidence in court should anything happen As you can see bottom right the police were filming what was happening at things unfolded Am posting this pic only to answer the question of why the police were only filming the North Stand when it's evident that's not true and in fact the Leeds Fans were being filmed also So there was more than one bobby with a camera in the Leeds end? I didn't really see much trouble in the case of bottles and seats being thrown come from the upper middle part of the stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 Last year's riot (a real one's as opposed to Mr Mann MP version of constitutes a riot) escalated not only around the Tottenham, but around the country because the Police failed to enforce the law and stood back. Ironically, SYP was praised for not standing back and being proactive by arresting people trying to stir up trouble and monitoring social media web sites. For us law abiding citizens I would like the police to protect me and my family rather than film the event. I'm sure that young Leeds fan and his family would feel the same after an advertising hoarding hit him on the head. Whilst I agree with you everything happened in a split second - quite difficult to police that one The criticism should be that the Leeds fans were stood where they were stood and perhaps should have been moved back to their seats but again that poses problems of it's own Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest totemowl Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 So you would be quite happy if this thug had gone on to injure someone else between the time of the attack and being arrested a couple of days later? Didn't say that. But what would make you happy: 1. Waiting 2 days to arrest him, him having harmed no one in the intervening peiod. 2. Police wading into crowd, inciting some Leeds fans even more, losing control of others, injuring some who had done no wrong. 3. Police wading into crowd and getting injured, therefore not on duty in South Yorks but still being paid by your taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darbo Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Didn't say that. But what would make you happy: 1. Waiting 2 days to arrest him, him having harmed no one in the intervening peiod. 2. Police wading into crowd, inciting some Leeds fans even more, losing control of others, injuring some who had done no wrong. 3. Police wading into crowd and getting injured, therefore not on duty in South Yorks but still being paid by your taxes. 1. no one could possibly know at the time that he wouldn't harm anyone else, he attacked Kirkland and should have been dealt with immediately.2. I never suggested police 'wading' into the crowd, but I think the police should have entered the crowd calmly to find and arrest him. 3. I honestly do not for a second think that if the police had gone in to arrest him they would have been 'attacked' if it was done in the correct manner. The police don't have to fly in, batons flailing, battering everyone. On the flip side, if this thug had, after the match, attacked someone or worse killed someone, would you still think the police should have waited 2 days to arrest him? Back to what would make me happy.....feeling protected by the police and not having an inkling at the back of my mind that if I got attacked and a police officer was nearby that he would video the incident and make an arrest after I'd taken a beating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumboldowl Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Policing over the years has evolved DESOLVED Cops no longer wade into nightclubs and jump into fights and stop em.. instead they'll let it die down, turn up, then use the CCTV and witness accounts to prosecute.. safer FOR THE POLICE AMENDED IT FOR YOU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 Back to what would make me happy.....feeling protected by the police and not having an inkling at the back of my mind that if I got attacked and a police officer was nearby that he would video the incident and make an arrest after I'd taken a beating. I'm confused why people haven't spotted the change in policing over the years... Surely you've seen that if fights break out whether it be in pubs or clubs, or at football - that they don't wade in to sort it out anymore Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darbo Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I'm confused why people haven't spotted the change in policing over the years... Surely you've seen that if fights break out whether it be in pubs or clubs, or at football - that they don't wade in to sort it out anymore I guess the point is whether people think it's right or wrong if situations are policed in such a way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan48 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Stewards should have called for police to get to the front of lower tier as soon as bottles and seats started flying , not after Kirkland was assaulted. Seems we never learn - why would stewards delay calling for assistance ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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