Its time for Jeffers...

[Glaser]

We have collected just 8 goals, 2 wins and 11 points from the last 13 games.

By way of contrast, Brian Laws managed a meagre 2 wins and 9 points from his final 13 matches and faced an increasing demand for his dismissal as a result.

Whilst I appreciate there are some mitigating circumstances for Irvine, I fail to see how this can be described as a 'really good job'.

I started a thread last week, whereby I extrapolated out Irvine's form since taking over, over the course of a full season.

We would now be sat in 10th place in this league, with a team of bottlers, furthermore, with players whom aren't of his choosing

If that is not 'good' then I don't know what is.

Yes, at present we are dire, again, I think this can be attributed to both Irvine, but also the "tools" he has assembled to do the job.

I ask, what I did last week, would you rather cut with a knife or a fork ?

I admit, Irvine is not blameless in all of this. He could have been A LOT MORE adventurous and got more points than we have now. I feel that with a bit more forward thinking and less negation in his approach and tactics, we would now be safe, as we would have got results against Derby, QPR, Bristol and Preston.

But, with the shambles of a squad we have at present, not many managers would get a lot more out of them.

[DJMortimer]

I started a thread last week, whereby I extrapolated out Irvine's form since taking over, over the course of a full season.

We would now be sat in 10th place in this league, with a team of bottlers, furthermore, with players whom aren't of his choosing

If that is not 'good' then I don't know what is.

That's a somewhat selective way of viewing the statistics though. With each passing game, that full season analysis is seeing us slip further and further down the table. Regardless, the smaller a data sample is, the less meaningful it becomes. There were spells under Laws when we would have been in the top few places, but given that the accepted wisdom is now that he was never more than a buffoon (who somehow had everyone fooled for three years), no doubt these will be invalidated by one excuse or another.

After the initial upturn that invariably accompanies the arrival of a new manager, our form has returned to much the same as it was when Laws was getting hammered.

EDIT : It's also occurred to me that I was panned for an analysis supporting Laws' record with us overall in his time here, yet despite this being done in numerous different ways and arriving at very similar conclusions each time, I was criticised by some as employing 'selective' reasoning. Hmm....

Edited April 12, 2010 by DJMortimer

[Glaser]

That's a somewhat selective way of viewing the statistics though. With each passing game, that full season analysis is seeing us slip further and further down the table. Regardless, the smaller a data sample is, the less meaningful it becomes. There were spells under Laws when we would have been in the top few places, but given that the accepted wisdom is now that he was never more than a buffoon (who somehow had everyone fooled for three years), no doubt these will be invalidated by one excuse or another.

After the initial upturn that invariably accompanies the arrival of a new manager, our form has returned to much the same as it was when Laws was getting hammered.

EDIT : It's also occurred to me that I was panned for an analysis supporting Laws' record with us overall in his time here, yet despite this being done in numerous different ways and arriving at very similar conclusions each time, I was criticised by some as employing 'selective' reasoning. Hmm....

How did he have us fooled for 3 years ?

Did we not avoid relegation by the skin of our teeth one year and look odds on certs for it this ?

[Guest Deleted member]

Didnt he also lead us to our best finish in the last 15 years?

[DJMortimer]

How did he have us fooled for 3 years ?

Did we not avoid relegation by the skin of our teeth one year and look odds on certs for it this ?

By the same token he nearly had us in the play-offs one year and has performed at par or better than his resources would suggest likely each season, until last October when I still believe something changed abruptly. The degree to which Laws can be blamed for that is open to debate as the causes are still mysterious, but the statistics are unequivocal - we performed at a very consistent mid-table level for a very long time until around the time of the Richard Wood contract row. After that the bottom fell out of our form, and apart from a brief revival when we changed manager, has not been resolved.

[oh_weds_we_love_you]

Didnt he also lead us to our best finish in the last 15 years?

This.

And I noticed no Brian Laws threads started this weekend - wonder why that was!

[Guest WaddleIsALegend]

I think Jeffers was such a waste fo money its unreal and has done nothing for the club at all..................... but although it pains me, I agree.

We look toothless and need to mix it up with 3 crucial games left.

[Glaser]

I think Jeffers was such a waste fo money its unreal and has done nothing for the club at all..................... but although it pains me, I agree.

We look toothless and need to mix it up with 3 crucial games left.

can you keep your Jeffers discussion to the correct thread please

Thanks

[Guest PAUL.]

Jeffers needed to start playing 6 games ago, the only problem being that the bloke wants the ball to his feet....................and there endeth the first lesson.

[DJMortimer]

can you keep your Jeffers discussion to the correct thread please

Thanks

Tch.

Bloody thread hijackers with their agendas!

[Guest Deleted member]

My personal belief with regards to this seasons debacle is nothing to do with either manager. I think any manager would struggle to motivate a team that has the following problem....

To start the season with over half of the entire first team squad out of contract was criminal. To then go past the Christmas period and only to have renegotiated with perhaps 3 players - still leaving over half the squad without a contract was the biggest message to those players that they were going to be out of work the following summer.

Why would they put the effort in? We don't care about them - they don't care about us. To then have a document leaked that sells the amount of players who are out of contract as a benefit to potential incoming investors is adding insult to injury.

THATS WHY WE'RE ON THE VERGE OF RELEGATION - NO OTHER REASON IMHO

[Max]

THATS WHY WE'RE ON THE VERGE OF RELEGATION - NO OTHER REASON IMHO

Of course not.

I'm glad we've worked out exactly what the one single factor to blame is now.

[Guest Deleted member]

All other prombles can be related back to the ultimate problem. The players don't give a f*** - why? Cos we dont want them

[ReadingOwl]

My personal belief with regards to this seasons debacle is nothing to do with either manager. I think any manager would struggle to motivate a team that has the following problem....

To start the season with over half of the entire first team squad out of contract was criminal. To then go past the Christmas period and only to have renegotiated with perhaps 3 players - still leaving over half the squad without a contract was the biggest message to those players that they were going to be out of work the following summer.

Why would they put the effort in? We don't care about them - they don't care about us. To then have a document leaked that sells the amount of players who are out of contract as a benefit to potential incoming investors is adding insult to injury.

THATS WHY WE'RE ON THE VERGE OF RELEGATION - NO OTHER REASON IMHO

Wrong in respectful opinion.

Loan players at other clubs try. Why? Because they want a contract somewhere come the end of the season. Out of contract players try why? Because they want another contract.

Why is Nolan trying, now if that is the case?

Edited April 12, 2010 by ReadingOwl

[Glaser]

Why would they put the effort in? We don't care about them - they don't care about us. To then have a document leaked that sells the amount of players who are out of contract as a benefit to potential incoming investors is adding insult to injury.

I really agree with what you say, but, on the counter balance to that, isn't it in the best interests of the player financially and career wise, to play now above his expected ability ? Hence, he could possibly then; a) earn a new deal elsewhere or, b) make people change their minds, in the process making a fiscal benefit, due to him now holding the bargaining chip ?

But, the notion of using the out of contract players as a selling point to potential investors was absolutely scandalous IMO

[oh_weds_we_love_you]

Why would they put the effort in?

To earn another contract in football - be it at Wednesday or elsewhere?

Do the players really believe they will have a future in football if they are released by us?!

[Guest Deleted member]

You could put 100% in and risk injury - or 90% in and have less chance of being injured.

I know what I'd do....

[Guest Deleted member]

To earn another contract in football - be it at Wednesday or elsewhere?

Do the players really believe they will have a future in football if they are released by us?!

I am willing to bet you £100 right now - that all the players released by us this summer gain another contract (unless they retire which is feasible for Gray)

[Guest NORTHWESTOWL]

I am willing to bet you £100 right now - that all the players released by us this summer gain another contract (unless they retire which is feasible for Gray)

Gray will probably get a commentary job with R5live.

But who FFS will give the other ' s contracts . MAYBE you can enlighten who s going to want these non battlers in The Championship ?

[Guest Deleted member]

Gray will probably get a commentary job with R5live.

But who FFS will give the other ' s contracts . MAYBE you can enlighten who s going to want these non battlers in The Championship ?

Who said anything about the Championship?