Guest Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 As ive said, for every list of players that have played at top European clubs PRIOR to establishing their place in the Argentina set up there are lists of capped players who NEVER played in Europe. That's a fact. Its also a fact that the 2006 squad (in which Messi made his debut) featured a fair few players based in South America (Tevez etc) and others at lesser European clubs who were already firmly established in the Argentina squad before going to Europe. This is the squad he made his debut in, sonalong with Tevez, Mascharano etc he clearly would still have been capped had he remained in Argentina (where he was capped at schoolboy level anyway). And as proven by the current squad lots of the current generation don't play in Europe yet get capped, so he would have still been picked today. As for those who did become European legends in recent decades, lets look at that. Most Capped Top 10 (minus Messi): Zanetti - Made international debut in 1994, didn't move to Europe till 1995. Mascherano - International debut 2003, moved to Europe 2006. Ayala - First capped 1994, moved to Europe 1995. Simeone - International debut 1988, moved to Europe 1990 (and that was lowly Pisa). Ruggeri - First cap 1983, moved to Europe 1988. Maradona - International debut 1977, moved to Europe 1982. Ortega - First cap 1993, moved to Europe 1997. Romero - A rare player that bucks the trend. Moved to Europe 2007 with lowly AZ, international debut came in 2009. Di Maria - Moved to Europe 2007, international debut 2008. You can have this one. Top 10 Scorers (minus Messi): Batistuta - First cap 1991, move to Europe after being scouted at the 1991 Copa America. Crespo - International debut 1995, move to Europe 1996. Maradona - See above. Aguero - On the face of it one for you here. First cap September 2006, move to Europe May 2006. Ironically he missed out on the 2006 World Cup squad despite his move for 20odd million to Athletico. Kicker eh? The move didn't help him but yet Tevez etc in South America made the squad. Hmm... Higuain - Totally yours this one. First cap 2009, moved to Europe in 2007. Artime - Never played in Europe. Passarella - First cap 1974, moved to Europe 1982. Luque - Never played in Europe. Sanfillipe - Never played in Europe. What else can we look at? World Cup winning captains? OK: Passarella - First Cap 1974, moved to Europe 1982. Maradona - Debut 1977, moved to Europe 1982. What about top scorers at one World Cup finals? OK: Stabile - Debut 1930, move to Europe 1931. Most goals in all World Cup finals?: Batistuta - See above. Most goals in one Confederation Cup? Funny this one: Figueroa - Moved to Birmingham in 2003, played one game coming off the bench, flopped badly, went back to South America. First capped in 2004. Most goals in a South American Championship: Maschio - Debut 1956. Moved to Europe 1957. Switched to Italy later. Most goals in all South American Championships: Mendez - Debut 1945, never played in Europe. Most Olympic goals: Tarasconi -Debut 1922, never played in Europe. Most goals at U20 World Cups etc: Saviola - International debut 2000, moved to Europe 2001. Can I stop yet? All these players belong on any list of "best" Argentinian players, clearly. And clearly they mostly all earned a move to Europe AFTER being capped internationally whist based in South America. And that's regardless of generation. You need to stop embarrassing yourself with this... Most wish you would. All you have done is agree with my post that while it is possible to gain international caps when based in Argentina, to become established it's better to move abroad - thanks for backing this up! Keep name calling and swearing, angrymad clearly suits you. No wonder your nephew gets frustrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 Most wish you would. All you have done is agree with my post that while it is possible to gain international caps when based in Argentina, to become established it's better to move abroad - thanks for backing this up! Keep name calling and swearing, angrymad clearly suits you. No wonder your nephew gets frustrated. The point you made was that Messi needed to move to Europe or he wouldn't have been picked for his nation. That's all the point was. There was never a stipulation over how many caps that included. There was never any discussion of "becoming established" either. And for that matter it was never agreed on how many caps it takes to "become established" either. For me an established international is one with a full cap. Simple as that. The simple point was Messi needed to move to Europe or he wouldn't have been picked. Which I've proven wrong time and time again. Anyone reading back will see that. And see that all you do is switch up your argument to try to "win" the argument. Boring Sidney. Boring. Now get the thread back on topic and stop bleating on about Messi yeah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 He left Newells at such a young age, how many players how you heard of that have become even decent players at international level by spending the whole of their careers in the Argentinian league. And just to nail you to the cross, this was your initial post. Which I proved: A) Lots of Argentinian legends of the past never played in Europe. B) Almost ALL Argentina's most capped players and highest goal scorers at international level were capped first whilst playing in South America then moved to Europe off the back of their international status. In fact, to move to Europe they need a European passport (dual nationality) or work permit. They need international caps normally to earn a work permit. C) You don't become a non "decent international" do you? Is that possible? To earn a call up at their level you tend to need to be playing well. Right move on now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 I can see us targeting South America at some point in the future for players. Didn't Joe Palmer play a big part in signing Brazilian players at Shakhtar Donetsk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 I can see us targeting South America at some point in the future for players. Didn't Joe Palmer play a big part in signing Brazilian players at Shakhtar Donetsk? Yeah loads of South Americans ended up in Russia and Ukraine for a while. Always struck me as odd, given the profound racism over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darklord Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 Argentina has a better claim to this thread than the Falklands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 And just to nail you to the cross, this was your initial post. Which I proved: A) Lots of Argentinian legends of the past never played in Europe. B) Almost ALL Argentina's most capped players and highest goal scorers at international level were capped first whilst playing in South America then moved to Europe off the back of their international status. In fact, to move to Europe they need a European passport (dual nationality) or work permit. They need international caps normally to earn a work permit. C) You don't become a non "decent international" do you? Is that possible? To earn a call up at their level you tend to need to be playing well. Right move on now. A - Of the past is the point - not in the modern era. B - We've been over this, I didn't say they can't get capped, I said not many established internationals in the squad - a point which I have proved as the few Argentian based players in every World Cup squad this century have had the least caps in the squad. C - By decent international I mean long term. I take it you think Sam Rickets and many others were worthy of international recognition D - I hope today's result has cheered you up a bit, no need to get so angrymad when someone disagrees with you. I had a great time watching Warnock & Blackwell looking smug as the successfully saw their team dive foul and feign their way through 80% of the game and then have the temerity to go apoplectic at all around them as we chose to take our time in the final few minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 A - Of the past is the point - not in the modern era. B - We've been over this, I didn't say they can't get capped, I said not many established internationals in the squad - a point which I have proved as the few Argentian based players in every World Cup squad this century have had the least caps in the squad. C - By decent international I mean long term. I take it you think Sam Rickets and many others were worthy of international recognition D - I hope today's result has cheered you up a bit, no need to get so angrymad when someone disagrees with you. I had a great time watching Warnock & Blackwell looking smug as the successfully saw their team dive foul and feign their way through 80% of the game and then have the temerity to go apoplectic at all around them as we chose to take our time in the final few minutes. Let it go you spaz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 Let it go you spaz. Wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daizan10 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 On 10/04/2017 at 18:33, Big Ron's Sovereign said: 1st topic. Can we ban The Wednesday Week? Why? I like the Wednesday Week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 This thread will be getting moved to the non-Wednesday section... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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