Guest CageFightingOwl Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Exactly! I'm very happy with Gray, done an unbelievable job with a squad that is constantly changing! I just don't know how Mandaric and the press quantify this 'improved' season overall. But hey ho! I think you missed the interview where Milan said he was personally disappointed with the last 2 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JonTheOwl66 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 In 2011/12 Sheffield Utd finished 3rd in League One on 90 pts and did not get promoted. The season after 2012/13 Doncaster Rovers finished 1st with 86 points and did get promoted. So did Doncaster have a poor season compared to Sheffield United the season before?? . Irrelevant. That's like comparing us with Barnsley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SallyCinnamon Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 We have improved. We are playing better football and are less reliant on loan players. To me that's more important than point tally, bodes better for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siowls Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 In 2011/12 Sheffield Utd finished 3rd in League One on 90 pts and did not get promoted. The season after 2012/13 Doncaster Rovers finished 1st with 86 points and did get promoted. So did Doncaster have a poor season compared to Sheffield United the season before?? . Team A get automatically promoted on 100 points. In the same season, Team B also get automatically promoted on 90 points. Which is the better team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CageFightingOwl Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 The stupidity of the penultimate line in this post is ludicrous. Absolutely laugh out loud. YES I MEAN, LETS COMPARE OUR PERFORMANCES TO TWO YEARS AGO WHEN WE WERE IN LEAGUE 1 OR EVEN BETTER, LETS GO BACK TO WHEN WE WERE A PREMIER LEAGUE TEAM. MY, HAVENT WE PROGRESSED! You have a bizarre thought process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JonTheOwl66 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 We have improved. We are playing better football and are less reliant on loan players. To me that's more important than point tally, bodes better for the future. Less reliant on loans? Really? So you don't count Hutch, Wickham, Fryatt, Best as being less reliant on loans? Wickham was absolutely the sole reason for our good results between the turn of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JonTheOwl66 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 You have a bizarre thought process. Perhaps. I guess we may as well never compare past performance again to see if we've improved. It's obviously completely irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CageFightingOwl Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Team A get automatically promoted on 100 points. In the same season, Team B also get automatically promoted on 90 points. Which is the better team? Over the course of that season then team A because they have more points than team B. Thats not what we are talking about is it? You and JTO are saying we have had a worse season because we have less points. You are comparing two seasons to each other. You cant do that because another 23 teams have a say in where you finish too. League Position tells you if you have improved or not, simples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThisCityIsOurs88 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 So, say we win our next 2 games and finish on 59 points - that's an improvement right? This argument is invalid until the season is finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wilyfox Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Six different teams as well. That's twelve games against opposition we didn't face last season. No two seasons are the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CageFightingOwl Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Perhaps. I guess we may as well never compare past performance again to see if we've improved. It's obviously completely irrelevant. I dont think we have made great strides at all this season and we have been very lucky. However, looking at point totals isn't the way to judge a season. Anyone with any sense will see that each season it will be different depending on the performances of all the 24 teams involved. Thats why it doesnt work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siowls Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 Over the course of that season then team A because they have more points than team B. Thats not what we are talking about is it? You and JTO are saying we have had a worse season because we have less points. You are comparing two seasons to each other. You cant do that because another 23 teams have a say in where you finish too. League Position tells you if you have improved or not, simples. Exactly, the other 23 teams have a say in where you will finish, meaning you can't use league as a comparable measurement for year on year performance.Take business an example. You can use market share as a way of measuring your performance. However, year on year, your company may be gaining market share but losing revenue... How would you quantify/justify performance in this instance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CageFightingOwl Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Perhaps. I guess we may as well never compare past performance again to see if we've improved. It's obviously completely irrelevant. Performance?? League Position or point total is the debate is it not? What is the correct way of looking at it? Points are different every season for the important stuff like promotions and relegations etc. But We know that 1st and 2nd place go up, 3, 4, 5 and 6 are in the playoffs and 22nd, 23rd and 24th are relegated. So which one is most accurate when judging performance over a season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CageFightingOwl Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Exactly, the other 23 teams have a say in where you will finish, meaning you can't use league as a comparable measurement for year on year performance. Take business an example. You can use market share as a way of measuring your performance. However, year on year, your company may be gaining market share but losing revenue... How would you quantify/justify performance in this instance? Why use a business example?? I question your knowledge of football if you have to use a business example. So whoever finishes 4th next season in the Premier League will qualify for the Champions League. What if the points they get are less than the team that finish 4th this season? Does it matter?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JonTheOwl66 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Points. Because they generally remain the one constant in a season. You can usually bracket each of the key positions in the table to different points totals. Top 2 - 85+ Top 6 - 65-75 Bottom three - 35-50ish Obviously that's quite a wide range of points totals. But the point remains the same. I made this point last time - but why do managers and pundits bang on about 'points totals' for avoiding relegation? The response I got last time was 'it's a load of nonsense' and basically accusing Premier League managers of talking rubbish. How do you explain that phenomenon? I'm tired of this argument. In some respects we have progressed. In others we absolutely haven't. The most important thing now is NEXT season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThisCityIsOurs88 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 My post seems to have been missed. How can we judge this season already when we have 2 games left and could potentially finish on 59 points, making us 1 point better off than last season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JonTheOwl66 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 My post seems to have been missed. How can we judge this season already when we have 2 games left and could potentially finish on 59 points, making us 1 point better off than last season? We just flipping can alright? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siowls Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) Why use a business example?? I question your knowledge of football if you have to use a business example. So whoever finishes 4th next season in the Premier League will qualify for the Champions League. What if the points they get are less than the team that finish 4th this season? Does it matter?? It's the same concept - which you don't seem to understand. However, as easy as it is, I won't begin a slanging match.The ONLY way to reliably compare your performance year on year is to compare points total. League position is dictated by a combination of your performance and performances of OTHER teams. Edited April 21, 2014 by siowls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThisCityIsOurs88 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) We just flipping can alright? Sound mate Edited April 21, 2014 by ThisCityIsOurs88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CageFightingOwl Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Last seasons championship blew the phenomenon out of the water. Like i have said last season was a freak season. Yet thats what you are comparing this season to. Its true that managers will set a target and in each division there is a magic number of points that often leads to safety, the sooner they get there the better. However, like last season showed it is not reliable. but If you finish 6th then you know you will qualify for the play offs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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