2 Big Problems

[Guest Darkus Owlus]

You can't help but feel Irvine's substitutions weren't going to change this game - the problem wasn't players not their good days etc, (maybe Coke an exception) but a lack of creativity to break down a determined side.

The second problem is, when you look at the game today, their fans shouting for handball constantly, they screamed and appealed for everything - you could see how important it was to their fans for a number of reasons. As for the Brentford players, they weren't particulary outstanding, just resolute and determined to win this game.

Teams, whether top or bottom of the league, are going to be absolute fired up to beat us, especially when you look at the names in our side. To quote a Hartlepool fan the other week, "It's ridiculous you've got those players in this league".

We need someone more creative in the midfield, and we need to fire ourselves up even more so to match the others sides increased determination against us. Today we played quite well but we were outfought by a nitty-gritty shift from Brentford, that was a smiliar display to what you see when higher division teams meet a lower one in the cup away from home.

The players out there were good but they are all quite similar in attributes. O'Connor and Potter, what's the difference? Teale and Sedgewick? What's the difference? Good players yes, but not one of these 4 mentioned players has raw creativity - it's too blanced hence why I think the changes wouldn't work and they didn't. You could see that happening a good half hour before the match was 'over'.

In another scenario we might have been able to find that missing midfield creativity in Jermaine Johnson. That's the player that would have made the difference from the bench today, not like for like changes or bringing on more of the same.

I realise Irvine only has so many options, but if we really truely want to be going for automatic we're missing a showmen. Coke can't and won't do it everday and shouldn't have to shoulder all this himself.

[Guest aj_owl]

I lost interest at the point where you said we played quite well.

We didn't. We played poo . Wake up.

[Guest Darkus Owlus]

I lost interest at the point where you said we played quite well.

We didn't. We played poo . Wake up.

Nope we had okay general play apart from being unable to open them up.

If we scored 2 with our backsides you wouldn't be mentioning the performance in a critical way.

If you clear your head (I know I'm pissed off too), the play wasn't too bad it just had no penetration and no creativity.

Jones was an option to use in that instance.

[Daz]

I'm sorry - we were awful and on another day that could easily have been a 3-0 defeat and we couldn't have had many complaints.

It's pretty obvious that teams in this league battle like mad and do close down space - yet despite their inferior team (man for man and in league position) we let them boss the game in all its critical elements.

Funny how Brentford managed to create so much against us and had a lot of penetration.

We fell into the trap of thinking it would be all too easy and didn't wake up to how the game was being played to match them.

Edited September 5, 2010 by Daz

[Guest aj_owl]

Nope we had okay general play apart from being unable to open them up.

If we scored 2 with our backsides you wouldn't be mentioning the performance in a critical way.

If you clear your head (I know I'm pissed off too), the play

wasn't too bad it just had no penetration and no creativity.

Jones was an option to use in that instance.

How can you have a good performance without penetration and creativity. Not to mention it should have been 3. It was terrible whether I am angry or not.

The performance was brainless. Ridiculous pumping into the area when anyone with eyes could see it was coming back out.

No amount of gloss can paint over the fact we were second to every ball, forward passing was horrendous and we gave minimal effort. A performance take straight from last seasons handbook.

[Guest Darkus Owlus]

I'm sorry - we were awful and on another day that could easily have been a 3-0 defeat and we couldn't have had many complaints.

It's pretty obvious that teams in this league battle like mad and do close down space - yet despite their inferior team (man for man and in league position) we let them boss the game in all its critical elements.

Funny how Brentford managed to create so much against us, were creative at times and had a lot of penetration.

We fell into the trap of thinking it would be all too easy and didn't wake up to how the game was being played to match them.

I'd like to know how Daz we haven't played like that all season, it wasn't shocking it just wasn't penetrating.

Look at the games we've played this season and what's different:

Dagenham - wee wee poor side in which we only won 2-0 and the second half from Wednesday was quite unconvincing football.

Bury - They deserved atleast a draw.

Colchester - Not a great performance but a battled point. No signs of "automatic promotion football".

Brighton - They should have got a point, we were again unconvincing but luckily made it through.

Sflaphorpe - Well beaten but a nice fightback. Again, no decent display.

Hartlepool - They gifted us those goals through being one of the worst sides in the league, and even with that on our sides we didn't play well we just took what was given. Their defence gave us those goals for the most part.

So what different? Show me a game where we've played like automatic or even playoff candidates....It doesn't exist, we just complain when we don't get the win.

[Bluesteel]

I think we have creative players, but their heads dropped and they got desperate.

Plus there was a lack of pace which slowed our attacks down, we never got in behind them and players like Teale really need to get at the full back. When theyre waiting for a cross, why not dart into the box make them foul you or at least mix it up a bit?

It certainly was a bad day in the office for one or two with wild sliced shots/clearances and poor passing.

Brentford had some quick and energetic players who were physically strong to boot. I dont think weve had to deal with too many players like that yet but they got their tails up and we struggled with them. Usually Id say it took a good goal to beat us,(which to be fair it was) but second half they couldve had two soft ones.

[Guest Darkus Owlus]

I'd like to know how Daz we haven't played like that all season, it wasn't shocking it just wasn't penetrating.

Look at the games we've played this season and what's different:

Dagenham - wee wee poor side in which we only won 2-0 and the second half from Wednesday was quite unconvincing football.

Bury - They deserved atleast a draw.

Colchester - Not a great performance but a battled point. No signs of "automatic promotion football".

Brighton - They should have got a point, we were again unconvincing but luckily made it through.

Sflaphorpe - Well beaten but a nice fightback. Again, no decent display.

Hartlepool - They gifted us those goals through being one of the worst sides in the league, and even with that on our sides we didn't play well we just took what was given. Their defence gave us those goals for the most part.

So what different? Show me a game where we've played like automatic or even playoff candidates....It doesn't exist, we just complain when we don't get the win.

-4, I guess people though we were good in all of those games then?

Nothing was different only a flipping good Brentford rearguard.

I guess no one saw them boxed in there own half towards the end or the 60% possession?

Lots of ball, nothing done with it. You can easily play ok football and create nothing. That's exactly what we did, we pressured, we passed in patches and we got nothing.

That's due to not being able to break them down. Nothing was different in anoy other games so far this season apart from their defence was quite simply awesome.

Edited September 5, 2010 by Darkus Owlus

[Guest Distraught!]

Just another game in London!

As long as I can remember, Wednesday rarely do well in that hole!

It usually brings out the worst in us. I fear the worst every time we play a league game there going right back to the drab days of Plough Lane and The Den.

[Bluesteel]

-4, I guess people though we were good in all of those games then?

Nothing was different only a flipping good Brentford rearguard.

I guess no one saw them boxed in there own half towards the end or the 60% possession?

Lots of ball, nothing done with it. You can easily play ok football and create nothing. That's exactly what we did, we pressured, we passed in patches and we got nothing.

That's due to not being able to break them down. Nothing was different in anoy other games so far this season apart from their defence was quite simply awesome.

We operated a similar way today as we did against Hartlepool, youre correct. We built from the back and attempted to hit them with quick passing...for the first 20 mins. It just didnt click, the passes werent finding each other whereas vs Pools it was 1,2,3 passes and in on goal, we were too fast for them. If we do that every week we'll murder teams but I have been concerned that we may not and we certainly didnt today.

We lost confidence and it decended into the ball being booted up in the air every 20 seconds which is exactly what they wanted. Credit to them for getting in our faces but a top team keeps a calm head and keeps plugging away on the deck if thats the only way were going to score. We cant play targetman football without a targetman.

[Bluesteel]

Just another game in London!

As long as I can remember, Wednesday rarely do well in that hole!

It usually brings out the worst in us. I fear the worst every time we play a league game there going right back to the drab days of Plough Lane and The Den.

London and Sky combo today which makes it even worse

[TheGodfather]

-4, I guess people though we were good in all of those games then?

Nothing was different only a flipping good Brentford rearguard.

I guess no one saw them boxed in there own half towards the end or the 60% possession?

Lots of ball, nothing done with it. You can easily play ok football and create nothing. That's exactly what we did, we pressured, we passed in patches and we got nothing.

That's due to not being able to break them down. Nothing was different in anoy other games so far this season apart from their defence was quite simply awesome.

Think it's a bit simplistic to start throwing stats like that around mate. We could have passed it between our back four and the keeper all game and walked away with 80% possession, but we'd be tearing them to shreds for it afterwards.

Brentford were good at the back, but we made it far too easy for them to be. I don't actually remember us getting their back four turning towards their own goal once all game. That's not down to good defending, that's down to guff usage of the ball when we had it, both through the middle and out wide.

We might have come away with 60% possession, but we rarely managed to maintain any kind of pressure on them because we gave it away far too easily, whether it be a misplaced pass, playing in Buxton anywhere past our half way line, or yet another hoofed ball up to Tudgay.

Personally, I thought we were awful today.

[Davidioso]

Just another game in London!

As long as I can remember, Wednesday rarely do well in that hole!

It usually brings out the worst in us. I fear the worst every time we play a league game there going right back to the drab days of Plough Lane and The Den.

people blaming the geographical location, the size of the pitch, hangover from wednesday night, sky tv, the list goes on

truth is we were second best today, they wanted the win more

[Guest Darkus Owlus]

Think it's a bit simplistic to start throwing stats like that around mate. We could have passed it between our back four and the keeper all game and walked away with 80% possession, but we'd be tearing them to shreds for it afterwards.

Brentford were good at the back, but we made it far too easy for them to be. I don't actually remember us getting their back four turning towards their own goal once all game. That's not down to good defending, that's down to guff usage of the ball when we had it, both through the middle and out wide.

We might have come away with 60% possession, but we rarely managed to maintain any kind of pressure on them because we gave it away far too easily, whether it be a misplaced pass, playing in Buxton anywhere past our half way line, or yet another hoofed ball up to Tudgay.

Personally, I thought we were awful today.

I go back to my early point about creating nothing.

We created nothing because they didn't allow us to.

Outfought, stubborn defence. None of the teams we've played so far have defended so well.

Edited September 5, 2010 by Darkus Owlus

[Guest ak15]

-4, I guess people though we were good in all of those games then?

Nothing was different only a flipping good Brentford rearguard.

I guess no one saw them boxed in there own half towards the end or the 60% possession?

We've just been outclassed and outbattled by an average League One outfit in front of the entire nation. But we had 60% possession so woop-de-doo

Today's been a write-off. There were few positives for us:

1) Weaver looks very capable at this level and his distribution was better than Grant's has ever been

2) At least Coke didn't get sent off

3) Er...

Next weeks performance HAS to be an improvement.

[TheGodfather]

I go back to my early point about creating nothing.

We created nothing because they didn't allow us to.

Outfought, stubborn defence. None of the teams we've played so far have defended so well.

Sorry but i'm not buying that one i'm afraid.

As I said, they defended well, but we made it easy for them to IMO. Giving the ball away and hoofing hopeful balls up to Tudgay won't get you anywhere, even in this division. We used the ball very poorly in the middle and out wide, and rarely troubled their back four in reality. The fact we couldn't find a ball to feet all game, or deliver anything like a half decent ball into the middle was nothing to do with how well Brentford defended.

They dealt with what we threw at them very well, but the reality is we actually threw very little of any serious quality.

[Guest becauseofboxingday]

The players out there were good but they are all quite similar in attributes. O'Connor and Potter, what's the difference?

Are you being serious?

Could there be two more different midfielders?

I couldn't understand the subs though.

[Guest S6 Kop Owl]

flipping Hell, its one bad result! Lets get over it!

Its not like we lost 5-0,

COME ON WEDNESDAY!!!!

[owlthorpe]

I go back to my early point about creating nothing.

We created nothing because they didn't allow us to.

Outfought, stubborn defence. None of the teams we've played so far have defended so well.

We created nothing because we are too predictable up front only playing balls into feet with the strikers backs to goal, there is no pace up there at all. With some pace we would have the option of playing on the shoulder of the last defender and slotting the ball through into space for our strikers to run onto.

Also today we went back to defending too deep just like last season making us less compact in the middle of the park and making it harder for our midfielders to support the attack.

No need to panic though, lets see how the table looks after 10 games or so , we would have taken this start so far.