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A bit of perspective...


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I'm pretty sure we've made some pretty horrific starts in the Championship before and managed to stop up/do ok. 

 

Didn't we win 1 in 13 under Sturrock (before he was sacked) and then finished 9th under Laws? 

 

Admittedly, the Championship is of a better quality than it was back then, but we are not doomed yet. 

 

Still - Xisco needs to get something on the board ASAP. 

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7 minutes ago, SiJ said:

I'm pretty sure we've made some pretty horrific starts in the Championship before and managed to stop up/do ok. 

 

Didn't we win 1 in 13 under Sturrock (before he was sacked) and then finished 9th under Laws? 

 

Admittedly, the Championship is of a better quality than it was back then, but we are not doomed yet. 

 

Still - Xisco needs to get something on the board ASAP. 

Get something against Cardiff and I think the mood will start to shift slightly. 

 

The longer we go without points on the board the shorter the fuse is going to be for the fans. A result against Cardiff and who knows what will happen.

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2 minutes ago, HootHoot said:

Get something against Cardiff and I think the mood will start to shift slightly. 

 

The longer we go without points on the board the shorter the fuse is going to be for the fans. A result against Cardiff and who knows what will happen.

Honestly, I would be happy with a point atm and a half decent display. 

 

Just something to build on. 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, George Whitebread said:

I’m as disappointed as anyone that we have no points on the board after our first three league games, but I think it’s worth looking at a few stats for context…

In the first two games of this season, without George Byers (nor Momo Diaby, for that matter), we managed just 13 shots and completed 490 passes against ex-Prem Southampton (with £30M JWP) and away at Hull. Not great. But in the immediate aftermath of George Byers picking up his injury in March, we also managed just 13 shots and completed 490 passes against much weaker opposition in Portsmouth and Bolton. Eerie that the numbers are exactly the same! 🤯

 

Yes, we only had an average of 24% possession Vs Southampton and Hull, while we had a whopping 37% in the games last March; but can you guess how much possession we had in the last game we had against higher level opposition (you know, when we were brilliant against Newcastle)? Yep... 24%! 😮

Why have I picked out those two games? Well, mainly because they took place before Chansiri’s infamous half-time pep talk at Oakwell. An interjection that, in the minds of Moore’s disciples, completely let him off the hook for the downturn that, in reality, had been building for weeks (and accelerated by Byers' injury, to be fair to DM).  

 

But were these the only two games that were that bad? Well, losing against Forest Green and Burton Albion were obvious low points, but how about Oxford (8 shots / 40% possession / 248 passes) or Bristol Rovers (9 shots / 34% possession / 287 passes)? How does the start of this season look against those games when we consider the gulf in quality between the respective oppositions?

 

Against Preston yesterday, the one game in which George Byers (and Momo Diaby) started, we had 53% possession, 8 shots and completed 400 passes. Our previous league games with comparable stats were against Port Vale, Fleetwood, Exeter, and 10-man Derby (albeit with more shots against the last two). For context, the stats may have been better against the likes of Accrington Stanley and Shrewsbury, but they were worse against Ipswich and Plymouth, which is obviously more relevant this season. Preston might not be promotion candidates, but they’re clearly significantly better than any of the four comparables there.

If we play anyone around the same level as Accrington Stanley this season, I’ll wheel out those stats. But until then, maybe we should cut the new guy a bit of slack…

 

At least Robert Johnson became an amazing guitar player. 

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2 minutes ago, SiJ said:

Honestly, I would be happy with a point atm and a half decent display. 

 

Just something to build on. 

 

 

I'd be happy with a point again Cardiff away from home. But like you said if need to see some positivity from us too to make me think it isn't just a freak result. 

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1 minute ago, HootHoot said:

I'd be happy with a point again Cardiff away from home. But like you said if need to see some positivity from us too to make me think it isn't just a freak result. 

Yep. 

 

I think when you are struggling like we are, you just want to see signs that there might be light at the end of the tunnel. 

 

For example, lose yesterday but create several good chance and be the better side. If that happens, you can at least think it may just turn. 

 

When you are losing and the performances are underwhelming and/or a bit pants, it's quite difficult to be too optimistic. 

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6 minutes ago, SiJ said:

Yep. 

 

I think when you are struggling like we are, you just want to see signs that there might be light at the end of the tunnel. 

 

For example, lose yesterday but create several good chance and be the better side. If that happens, you can at least think it may just turn. 

 

When you are losing and the performances are underwhelming and/or a bit pants, it's quite difficult to be too optimistic. 

We just need something to kick off our season. Would be nice for one of the new boys to get on the scoresheet too. 

 

Do a world of good for their confidence.

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Just a note for the op . The young lady who posted Darren Moore's version of events on twatter ,which is now taken as gospel apparently, also stated that Chansiri never went in the dressing room at Barnsley . So surely this must also now be an owlstalk fact ?.

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The international break first half of September  is opportune for us. Improving performances hopefully in the 3 games before then (inc Mansfield) and things could look a lot more settled after the break  New players more settled, fitter in some cases, a couple of weeks free to work things out in training and perhaps a couple of PL loanees incoming - things might well start to look a lot brighter. Critical 5 or 6 game period post break; after which we'll have a more reasonable idea of where we're  at.

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47 minutes ago, George Whitebread said:

But until then, maybe we should cut the new guy a bit of slack…

 

I've cut him some slack and always will. The problem Xisco has is he knows whats expected and he's starting to feel the heat. The next 5/6 fixtures aren't going to help him either.

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Just now, Kelfin Platz said:

I've cut him some slack and always will. The problem Xisco has is he knows whats expected and he's starting to feel the heat. The next 5/6 fixtures aren't going to help him either.

I too think we have to cut him some slack and give him time. We are too far gone to back out now. We just have to keep our fingers crossed. However that doesn't mean I have to ignore how unimpressive we have been. I fear the worst but we're committed now. 

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1 hour ago, George Whitebread said:

I’m as disappointed as anyone that we have no points on the board after our first three league games, but I think it’s worth looking at a few stats for context…

In the first two games of this season, without George Byers (nor Momo Diaby, for that matter), we managed just 13 shots and completed 490 passes against ex-Prem Southampton (with £30M JWP) and away at Hull. Not great. But in the immediate aftermath of George Byers picking up his injury in March, we also managed just 13 shots and completed 490 passes against much weaker opposition in Portsmouth and Bolton. Eerie that the numbers are exactly the same! 🤯

 

Yes, we only had an average of 24% possession Vs Southampton and Hull, while we had a whopping 37% in the games last March; but can you guess how much possession we had in the last game we had against higher level opposition (you know, when we were brilliant against Newcastle)? Yep... 24%! 😮

Why have I picked out those two games? Well, mainly because they took place before Chansiri’s infamous half-time pep talk at Oakwell. An interjection that, in the minds of Moore’s disciples, completely let him off the hook for the downturn that, in reality, had been building for weeks (and accelerated by Byers' injury, to be fair to DM).  

 

But were these the only two games that were that bad? Well, losing against Forest Green and Burton Albion were obvious low points, but how about Oxford (8 shots / 40% possession / 248 passes) or Bristol Rovers (9 shots / 34% possession / 287 passes)? How does the start of this season look against those games when we consider the gulf in quality between the respective oppositions?

 

Against Preston yesterday, the one game in which George Byers (and Momo Diaby) started, we had 53% possession, 8 shots and completed 400 passes. Our previous league games with comparable stats were against Port Vale, Fleetwood, Exeter, and 10-man Derby (albeit with more shots against the last two). For context, the stats may have been better against the likes of Accrington Stanley and Shrewsbury, but they were worse against Ipswich and Plymouth, which is obviously more relevant this season. Preston might not be promotion candidates, but they’re clearly significantly better than any of the four comparables there.

If we play anyone around the same level as Accrington Stanley this season, I’ll wheel out those stats. But until then, maybe we should cut the new guy a bit of slack…

 

 

The possession stat is a bit pointless. It is what you do with it. What we've done with it so far this season is very little. Here is our xG from each of the league games:

 

Southampton: 0.56

Hull: 0.52

Preston: 0.45

 

A total of 1.53 xG, no other team has less than 2. 

 

Against Preston we actually created less with 53% possession than we did in the previous two games with half as much possession. That's why I found the Preston game more concerning in many ways.

 

For last season, it is a bit weird to cherry pick certain games, e.g. mostly away games vs this season mostly at home, rather than look at the whole season (96 points, 100 goals scored, etc.). The overall picture last year shows a team that was creating chances and scoring goals. Admittedly that was at a lower level, but our peers from last season don't seem to have trouble creating chances (Ipswich and Plymouth are at around 1.6 xG per game so far. We scored as many goals as Plymouth last season).

 

And even in the games you have cherry picked, for example, the Newcastle game, against a much better team, the 24% possession led to an xG of 1.27. Some of the other games you've chosen (Portsmouth, Bristol Rovers) we took a lead in the first half and then shut up shop and let the other team have the ball. It is a long season and you need to conserve energy. This was exactly what Preston did to us on Saturday - they had more possession until they went ahead and then they let us have the ball in non-dangerous areas. By contrast, our game-management has been virtually non-existent this season.

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Possession is an interesting stat, but a neutral one. It's not better to have 53% than 24%. West Ham were clearly the better team yesterday against Chelsea, but with about 25% possession. Etc.

 

For me, the big question at the moment is whether our new signings are going to get up to speed. I feel less confident about that than I would like. If they don't then we are in a bit of a pickle.

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We only need to avoid relegation this season 

 

That’s all we need to do 

 

Then next season we can try and improve further

 

And the early bird season tickets should be on sale in the next few weeks for next season too to guarantee your seat at Hillsborough for it 

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23 minutes ago, thewookieisdown said:

Possession is an interesting stat, but a neutral one. It's not better to have 53% than 24%. West Ham were clearly the better team yesterday against Chelsea, but with about 25% possession. Etc.

 

For me, the big question at the moment is whether our new signings are going to get up to speed. I feel less confident about that than I would like. If they don't then we are in a bit of a pickle.

 

Did you think that Preston were good value for their victory then?

 

They had less of the ball than us, had fewer shots and had a lower XG.

 

Until Momo Diaby went off, I thought we were the marginally better side in a low block stand off. They just showed that one bit of quality that we couldn't muster. 

 

Ultimately, I think that's what Xisco is afraid of. He knows if you give this level of opposition an inch they'll take a mile.

 

We obviously need to stop giving them so much respect and start playing on the front foot, but it looks like we need to build confidence to achieve that.

 

And THAT is where the possession stats comes in for me. The Preston game wasn't the same as the first two. We're getting better...

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7 hours ago, sage owl said:

Just a note for the op . The young lady who posted Darren Moore's version of events on twatter ,which is now taken as gospel apparently, also stated that Chansiri never went in the dressing room at Barnsley . So surely this must also now be an owlstalk fact ?.

Rob Staton says he did

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The main problem is that this mystery “process” that the manager believes in doesn’t really make us any different to what we were before from what I can see, other than 

 

-passing it around our own half before going long

- benching some of our better players (at least the ones who might help us in the immediate term)

- putting a huge amount of pressure on Delgado Mussaba and probably Gassama to do the business on a regular basis. When two of them probably need the best part of a season to adapt.

- negating any attacking threat from full backs but saying he doesn’t want to play like Preston.

 

How that is going to equate to survival never mind anything else is not easy to see currently. Although the transfer window is still open. 
 

We have had some bad starts before but likewise we’ve had worse sides come up and pick up points whilst “learning” and made more of a fist of it than this. We did have a season when we lost the first six and stopped up but we weren’t newly promoted then. 
 

Being new and wanting to change things doesn’t give a manager carte Blanche to shrug off three defeats (and counting) in a row as if they don’t matter, in my opinion at least.  

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