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Are we being harsh on Stockdale?


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Third goal wasn’t his fault. First he’s in the right part of the goal to start with but dives after it’s already past him and second it’s pretty much an OG,  perhaps unfortunate not it was an absolute mess collectively across the back line and he’s supposed to be the one calming everyone down with his experience and steady approach. Not flapping about 

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18 minutes ago, Costello 77 said:

I haven't seen the full 90 yet but that "leap" for the first had more than a touch of Sunday league about it..

He's almost comically overweight for an athlete.

Any keeper can make an error so i wouldnt castigate him too much but his lack of agility whether  due to age or weight dont bode well.

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2 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

I don't pay attention to interviews personally. They're just reporter asking question and manager/player just batting off the question with as neutral an answer as they can get away with.

The frustration for me is how we start seasons. We seem to use the first couple of months to just test out different starting lineups, tactics etc and to finally settle on one around Christmas time

 

lol

 

So so frustrating


Regarding tactics during games your point is very difficult to argue (even for me amazingly) and I have to say it's difficult to disagree with what you're saying on that score.


Although - again - in the second half of last season he did seem to make changes that won us games

 

 

 

My big concern is a repeat of last season where we win games, lose games draw games, and gradually the points we throw away gradually start to mount ( as yesterday).

 

Also any momentum is lost. Everyone went into yesterday full of it. Proper Wednesday kit. Proper away kit. New shiny pitch. 27000 crowd all buzzing. Brilliant start. Then abject chaos where we eventually rescue a point, which our manager seems to think is a great result. 
 

The initial buzz is muted, questions are asked, it looks like more of the same from last year and we are immediately two points off the pace.

 

Derby, who were a total unknown quantity this year, got a couple of our ‘castoffs’ and go into THEIR next game on fire. Their crowd will be up for it, they’ll sell extra tickets etc whereas we’ll be a bit cautious and the initial confidence will be a bit dented (especially with the manner of the performance).

 

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19 minutes ago, kirksandallowl said:


 

3. ........, not sure Stockdale should be coming for that ball. 

I know modern coaching  encourages keepers to stay on their line and try and save any attempts on goal especially from set pieces when the opposition will have men designated to stop the keeper getting to the ball.

 

But in open play with just 1 attacker going for the ball how close in would the ball need to be for you to think a keeper should be coming for it?

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Just now, bigthinrob said:

My big concern is a repeat of last season where we win games, lose games draw games, and gradually the points we throw away gradually start to mount ( as yesterday).

 

Also any momentum is lost. Everyone went into yesterday full of it. Proper Wednesday kit. Proper away kit. New shiny pitch. 27000 crowd all buzzing. Brilliant start. Then abject chaos where we eventually rescue a point, which our manager seems to think is a great result. 
 

The initial buzz is muted, questions are asked, it looks like more of the same from last year and we are immediately two points off the pace.

 

Derby, who were a total unknown quantity this year, got a couple of our ‘castoffs’ and go into THEIR next game on fire. Their crowd will be up for it, they’ll sell extra tickets etc whereas we’ll be a bit cautious and the initial confidence will be a bit dented (especially with the manner of the performance).

 



I hear you.

The next game is unexpectedly massive in terms of getting the Wednesday fans back on side already this season which is bizarre to have to say


Have you heard the full Rob Staton interview about these points?

 


Owlstalk Shop

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Ian said:

I know modern coaching  encourages keepers to stay on their line and try and save any attempts on goal especially from set pieces when the opposition will have men designated to stop the keeper getting to the ball.

 

But in open play with just 1 attacker going for the ball how close in would the ball need to be for you to think a keeper should be coming for it?


Dunno not a keeper or keeper coach, but you’ve kind of proved my point.  Did Stockdale do anything different to any number of modern day keepers? That’s why I’m thinking we’re are maybe being a bit harsh. 

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Guest Jack the Hat
2 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

 

 

 


Isn't it fascinating how two people can see the exact same thing but come up with two absolute opposite opinions!


That's football I guess and long may it continue!

 

It is and I’m a great advocate for people having different opinions without this partisan attitude of getting angry when someone disagrees with you. For me the first goal he shouldn’t have been allowed to get a cross in but when he did it’s a great little dink and a quality header into the top corner. I’d have been well happy if we’d have finished with that quality. Maybe the keeper should have got to it but I’m a striker not a keeper so kudos to the striker for me.

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2 hours ago, mcmigo said:

He is a good goalie and I wouldn’t get too carried away with his body shape.  He has been a unit for a good few years and still been an excellent keeper.  
 

as I said on the other thread, he had a monster centre back in front of him at Wycombe who cleared absolutely everything chucked into the box .  Most teams worked out that there wasn’t much point crossing lots against Wycombe , and the way to beat them was to instead cut inside.  Yesterday would have been a shock with our woeful centre half defending.  He will now no doubt adjust and improve. 

 

Wish I could recommend this more than once. He's been that same shape for 10+ years and played in the Premier League with that body shape.

 

We can criticise him for his distribution or his agility, but there must be at least 10 comments on this thread saying he is fat or needs to lose weight. He has a stocky build and that isn't going to change. And I can see this is going to become very boring, very quickly.

 

The idea that the coaches and physio team don't monitor the diet and weight of the players is nonsense.

 

Similar to other players Lampard, Rooney, Henderson, Crouch, Palmer (last not by Wednesday fans but definitely by England fans) who were criticised for basically having unusual body shapes rather than what they did on the pitch. It is so boring.

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33 minutes ago, markg said:

What he said in the interview might not have any resemblance to what he actually thought and relayed back to the team.

Yeah I fully appreciate that, but I’m not even fully convinced he can have a pop at the players when he ought to be aware the lack of organisation lies at his own door.

 

It’s happened too many times with different players for them ALL to be cr*p.   
 

Poor organisational coaching, regardless of the player. 

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Just now, bigthinrob said:

Yeah I fully appreciate that, but I’m not even fully convinced he can have a pop at the players when he ought to be aware the lack of organisation lies at his own door. 



I think I read a couple of players last season saying he could be an absolute tyrant when he needed to be.

Not sure - one of them may have been Bannan - can't remember

 


Owlstalk Shop

 

 

 

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For set pieces, yes, you can blame Moore and the coaches. But the 2nd and 3rd goals for me were Iorfa not marking the player he was supposed to mark. The team shape is fine. I can't see what Moore or Smith can coach to improve that situation (other than not pick Iorfa).

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2 minutes ago, Emerson Thome said:

For set pieces, yes, you can blame Moore and the coaches. But the 2nd and 3rd goals for me were Iorfa not marking the player he was supposed to mark. The team shape is fine. I can't see what Moore or Smith can coach to improve that situation (other than not pick Iorfa).




Do you think if Iorfa hadn't played yesterday that we'd have had a very different result?

 

(I think I do)

 


Owlstalk Shop

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Emerson Thome said:

You can take a camel to water but you can't force it to drink.

Yep. But if a competent coach makes sure the camel’s thirsty. Said camel will glug accordingly.

 

Problem is, our man would have taken it to the local Wetherspoons first.

 

Not to mention the prolific ‘winger camel’ being played out of position.

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4 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:




Do you think if Iorfa hadn't played yesterday that we'd have had a very different result?

 

(I think I do)

 

Yes, sadly I do. I don't want to labour the point (and I've already posted too many times about this, so will shut up after this one). But I think Palmer or Ihiekwe (if he was on the right) would contest both those headers for the 2nd and 3rd goals. They are also better on the ball.

 

I'm not sure Dawson saves the 1st or 2nd (maybe, but hard to say), but Palmer and Iheikwe definitely wouldn't just stand there and watch the 2nd or 3rd goals happen. I think Iorfa knows it too - look how long he lies on the floor after we let the second one in. Maybe mentally this affected him for the third?

 

It wasn't like there was any clever movement, the strikers just peeled off a couple of yards and we weren't overloaded with attackers in the box.

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7 minutes ago, Emerson Thome said:

For set pieces, yes, you can blame Moore and the coaches. But the 2nd and 3rd goals for me were Iorfa not marking the player he was supposed to mark. The team shape is fine. I can't see what Moore or Smith can coach to improve that situation (other than not pick Iorfa).

Sorry mate, it’s happened too many times over too many games over multiple seasons with DIFFERENT PERSONNEL.

 

The sloppy goals cost us dearly last year and we’ve had plenty of time to address it. 
 

As for the team shape being fine. IS IT? Or are wingbacks causing us problems when teams counter attack?

 

Clearly something is wrong, problems are being repeated, so something is wrong,  over & above individual sh*t performances.

 

It looks like players (especially defenders) don’t seem to know what they are supposed to do or where they are supposed to be.

 

That is an ingrained coaching issue.
 

 

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As a keeper i will defend him to the hilt wherever possible. I’ve looked at the goals objectively.
 

The problem is that Stockdale has joined the club seemingly a stone or two overweight. That immediately creates a negative perception. 
 

He’s very slow to react for the first goal. Distinct lack of mobility getting across.
 

Second goal he should have tipped over the bar. 
 

Third goal nothing he could do with it. 
 

He couldn’t have come for any of the crosses.

 

Mistakes happen now and again. My concern is him being slow to react for the first. Slow reactions are a lot more concerning than the odd mistake that all keepers will make.

 

He won’t be match fit yet, I hope he sharpens up over the next 2-3 weeks and finds the form he had last season and I’m confident he will do. 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, bigthinrob said:

Sorry mate, it’s happened too many times over too many games over multiple seasons with DIFFERENT PERSONNEL.

 

The sloppy goals cost us dearly last year and we’ve had plenty of time to address it. 
 

As for the team shape being fine. IS IT? Or are wingbacks causing us problems when teams counter attack?

 

Clearly something is wrong, problems are being repeated, so something is wrong,  over & above individual sh*t performances.

 

It looks like players (especially defenders) don’t seem to know what they are supposed to do or where they are supposed to be.

 

That is an ingrained coaching issue.

 

Has it though?

 

We've conceded 23 goals in our last 23 games. (And scored 46).

 

This is from the point our wingback system really started to bed in, by February, a month after the covid outbreak.

 

I'm sure we could tighten up a little bit by focusing on defence, maybe get that down from 1.0 goals conceded per game to maybe 0.9 (Rotherham were best last year at 0.71, Wigan & MK Dons tied for second at 0.96). But at the expense of scoring more goals.

 

But teams are always going to concede some goals. I honestly think it would be easier to swap out Iorfa than to change the whole system and start again.

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2 hours ago, Asio otus said:

Yawn. 

 

My fixture list definitely says only first game. New defence. Judgement  already past that the players are not good enough.

 

WTF.

Judging the Manager not the players, common theme is DM and his inability to sort the defence, whichever players he picks.

Wake me up when you can see this...or are you busy Happy Clapping DM' tactical masterclasses.

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