Our worrying run of form with Iorfa in a back 3...

[Emerson Thome]

Today was Iorfa's 82nd start for Wednesday. Overall he's been a solid player, in fact the Owlstalk ratings have him sitting just inside our Top 20 for the past 10 years (out of 102 players). But I've done a bit of digging to see how he performs in a back 3 and it doesn't look as good:

 

Dominic Iorfa by position:

Right Back (in a back 4) = 14 starts, Owlstalk Rating = 6.27

Centre Back (in a back 4) = 40 starts, Owlstalk Rating = 6.57

Centre Back (in a back 3) = 26 starts, Owlstalk Rating = 6.13

Defensive Midfielder (thanks Pulis) = 2 starts, Owlstalk Rating = 5.95

 

Not only that, our results are really bad when Iorfa plays in a back 3. In those 26 games, we have won just 6*, drawn 11 and lost 9.

*(And for one of those 6 wins - Wimbledon - Iorfa was brought off at 1-1 and we scored the winner when Johnson had replaced him in the back 3).

 

I then broke it down even further, to when Iorfa plays on the right of a back 3, compared in the centre of a back 3. While he does a solid job as the central defender of the 3, he scores even worse on the right:

 

Centre of back 3 = 12 starts, Owlstalk Rating = 6.31

Right of a back 3 = 14 starts, Owlstalk Rating = 5.97

 

While there were a couple of stand-out wins with Iorfa on the right of the back 3 under Garry Monk (where we generally didn't have much possession), there has been some really disappointing performances with Iorfa on the right in recent times. These are those 14 games with Iorfa at RCB:

 

3-3 draw at Birmingham (19/20 season - Iorfa subbed at half-time at 2-2)

3-0 win at QPR (19/20 season - Iorfa scored)

0-0 draw home to Huddersfield (19/20 season)

5-3 loss at Fulham (19/20 season - shambles)

1-2 loss home to Middlesboro (19/20 season)

0-0 draw at L2 Walsall (20/21 season - League Cup)

2-0 win at Cardiff (20/21 season)

0-0 draw home to Watford (20/21 season)

2-0 loss at Bristol City (20/21 season)

2-2 draw at relegated Wimbledon (21/22 season)

1-1 draw at Cambridge (21/22 season)

1-1 draw at home to Accrington (21/22 season)

2-1 win at home to relegated Wimbledon (21/22 season - Iorfa subbed at 1-1)

3-3 draw at home to Portsmouth (22/23 season)

 

With his experience of playing full-back, I'm not clear quite why he is so bad in that position, but it really doesn't seem to be working. We need to either fix this rapidly or stop playing him there.

[Ian]

How accurate do you think "owlstalk rating " would be seen by any serious stats folk?

[Emerson Thome]

17 minutes ago, Ian said:

How accurate do you think "owlstalk rating " would be seen by any serious stats folk?

 

They would like it.

[Neon Nick]

Think it was Bruce who brought Iorfa in...I don't think a run - of - form can be attached to any one Player, but am thinking that Iorfa has not contributed much to the Wednesday form, since he arrived a few years ago.  Be interesting to see the fate of Iorfa,  don't know if he's saleable.

[legendaryswan]

1 hour ago, Ian said:

How accurate do you think "owlstalk rating " would be seen by any serious stats folk?

Corbeanu , Il just park this here

[Morepork]

Thanks for taking the time to do this. I can't read too much into the OT rating for obvious reasons but the results speak for themselves and my eyes are still hurting from watching him today. If we continue down this path of Iorfa as a starter anywhere in defense let alone on the right we are in for more of the same.

 

In fairness, he always had a mistake in him with the ball at feet but more often than not his physicality could get him out of jail. Today he was lost, asleep and devoid of even the most basic defensive qualities and a disaster aerially.

Edited July 31, 2022 by Morepork

[CircleSeven]

Either a run of games gets him playing again or he’ll be a dropped. Dunkley was dreadful for a few matches last time out and then became a one man army, before getting injured again. 
Iorfa can do it and indeed must be doing the biz in training or DM wouldn’t be starting him. 
 

I don’t know if he’ll cut it or not. Sadly I suspect he’ll get injured again before we find out. 
 

We need at least one more CB anyway IMO and I expect to see one (maybe two) before the window shuts. I hope DM can get the best out of Dom but I wouldn’t be surprised to see his career here fizzle out like so many before him. 

[Pulixifer]

4 hours ago, Emerson Thome said:

Today was Iorfa's 82nd start for Wednesday. Overall he's been a solid player, in fact the Owlstalk ratings have him sitting just inside our Top 20 for the past 10 years (out of 102 players). But I've done a bit of digging to see how he performs in a back 3 and it doesn't look as good:

 

Dominic Iorfa by position:

Right Back (in a back 4) = 14 starts, Owlstalk Rating = 6.27

Centre Back (in a back 4) = 40 starts, Owlstalk Rating = 6.57

Centre Back (in a back 3) = 26 starts, Owlstalk Rating = 6.13

Defensive Midfielder (thanks Pulis) = 2 starts, Owlstalk Rating = 5.95

 

Not only that, our results are really bad when Iorfa plays in a back 3. In those 26 games, we have won just 6*, drawn 11 and lost 9.

*(And for one of those 6 wins - Wimbledon - Iorfa was brought off at 1-1 and we scored the winner when Johnson had replaced him in the back 3).

 

I then broke it down even further, to when Iorfa plays on the right of a back 3, compared in the centre of a back 3. While he does a solid job as the central defender of the 3, he scores even worse on the right:

 

Centre of back 3 = 12 starts, Owlstalk Rating = 6.31

Right of a back 3 = 14 starts, Owlstalk Rating = 5.97

 

While there were a couple of stand-out wins with Iorfa on the right of the back 3 under Garry Monk (where we generally didn't have much possession), there has been some really disappointing performances with Iorfa on the right in recent times. These are those 14 games with Iorfa at RCB:

 

3-3 draw at Birmingham (19/20 season - Iorfa subbed at half-time at 2-2)

3-0 win at QPR (19/20 season - Iorfa scored)

0-0 draw home to Huddersfield (19/20 season)

5-3 loss at Fulham (19/20 season - shambles)

1-2 loss home to Middlesboro (19/20 season)

0-0 draw at L2 Walsall (20/21 season - League Cup)

2-0 win at Cardiff (20/21 season)

0-0 draw home to Watford (20/21 season)

2-0 loss at Bristol City (20/21 season)

2-2 draw at relegated Wimbledon (21/22 season)

1-1 draw at Cambridge (21/22 season)

1-1 draw at home to Accrington (21/22 season)

2-1 win at home to relegated Wimbledon (21/22 season - Iorfa subbed at 1-1)

3-3 draw at home to Portsmouth (22/23 season)

 

With his experience of playing full-back, I'm not clear quite why he is so bad in that position, but it really doesn't seem to be working. We need to either fix this rapidly or stop playing him there.

 

Thanks for doing the digging. Yes unfortunately Dom's suffered a loss of form that injury generally brings. Most clubs just loan the player out to further the "rehabilitation". He likely has some yards to go to really get over what was a catastrophic injury. The more minutes he get's the better and it's a measure of the man the club is trying to give him those minutes in the first team. You'd hope that the physio team has given the indication that he is nearing the end of the recovery. I'd give it 2 or 3 more goes and if it doesn't work. Look to loan Dom out and get another body in to continue the journey.

[Manwë]

I think his problem is primarily that he's far better than anyone we've got.

 

It's a bit like a Lamborghini stuck in traffic at Dover. Doesn't matter the horsepower when you're moving at the same speed as the Vauxhall Nova 1.2 in front, to both get the snotty French passport control, to board the same rusty ferry.

 

When the road opens however, the Lamborghini will be at le Mans before the Nova has had chance to disembark.

 

Iorfa is our Lamborghini.  

[SiJ]

58 minutes ago, Manwë said:

I think his problem is primarily that he's far better than anyone we've got.

 

It's a bit like a Lamborghini stuck in traffic at Dover. Doesn't matter the horsepower when you're moving at the same speed as the Vauxhall Nova 1.2 in front, to both get the snotty French passport control, to board the same rusty ferry.

 

When the road opens however, the Lamborghini will be at le Mans before the Nova has had chance to disembark.

 

Iorfa is our Lamborghini.  

So the reason he can't defend and do the basics is because he's a Lambo

[Dylan93]

Said for years he’s not good enough. Relies heavily on his pace to get him out of trouble. Poor first touch and distribution, weak in the air surprisingly, and has the positional sense of a donkey. Should have been off loaded last season IMO

[S72 Owl]

Good post apart from using Owlstalk ratings kind of spoils it all for you. 
 

Think his biggest problem is his concentration levels. Never seems to sense the danger, he just always counts on his pace to get him out of trouble. 
 

 

[0114]

His inability to defend crosses is a massive issue and it’s not one that necessarily popped up yesterday. 
 

Plymouth away last season. Their 2nd goal came from a free kick into the box. Iorfa is marking the goalscorer and loses him to score at the back post. 
 

Shrewsbury at home last season. Ball pulled back across goal and Iorfa isn’t even close to the lad. 
 

Oxford at home last season. Their last minute winner, cross into the box and guess whose man scored because he can’t get tight to him? 
 

Lincoln at home last season. Their late equaliser from a corner, I’ll give you one guess who loses his man. 

 

Edited July 31, 2022 by 0114

[Tony Pulis]

He was our player of the season in 2019/20 in the Championship. If he can get back to his prime, Iorfa is an excellent centre-back.

 

He needs game time to get back to his prime and possibly maybe a bit of time out of the starting lineup if he doesn't improve fast enough.

[owlcity81]

For me there is a player there but currently we don't seem to be able to get the best out of him.

I think we need a new defensive coach taking on and work with him and the rest to get that auto mode going .

Ie the ball goes wide this is what I should do.

 The ball is being hit over the top this is what I should do. And so on.

One last comment the harlee Dean thing not sure on that he was injured have the time. I'd take storey and even pay to have him

[Jim]

2 or 3 years ago he looked as good as any player we had. Now he’s a shadow of that player and both injuries and a change in our style of play have played a part in this.

 

Early days I know but if I was Moore I’d seriously think about moving forward without him as a first choice and I suspect he will move on sooner rather than later.

[victorturner]

9 hours ago, Emerson Thome said:

Today was Iorfa's 82nd start for Wednesday. Overall he's been a solid player, in fact the Owlstalk ratings have him sitting just inside our Top 20 for the past 10 years (out of 102 players). But I've done a bit of digging to see how he performs in a back 3 and it doesn't look as good:

 

Dominic Iorfa by position:

Right Back (in a back 4) = 14 starts, Owlstalk Rating = 6.27

Centre Back (in a back 4) = 40 starts, Owlstalk Rating = 6.57

Centre Back (in a back 3) = 26 starts, Owlstalk Rating = 6.13

Defensive Midfielder (thanks Pulis) = 2 starts, Owlstalk Rating = 5.95

 

Not only that, our results are really bad when Iorfa plays in a back 3. In those 26 games, we have won just 6*, drawn 11 and lost 9.

*(And for one of those 6 wins - Wimbledon - Iorfa was brought off at 1-1 and we scored the winner when Johnson had replaced him in the back 3).

 

I then broke it down even further, to when Iorfa plays on the right of a back 3, compared in the centre of a back 3. While he does a solid job as the central defender of the 3, he scores even worse on the right:

 

Centre of back 3 = 12 starts, Owlstalk Rating = 6.31

Right of a back 3 = 14 starts, Owlstalk Rating = 5.97

 

While there were a couple of stand-out wins with Iorfa on the right of the back 3 under Garry Monk (where we generally didn't have much possession), there has been some really disappointing performances with Iorfa on the right in recent times. These are those 14 games with Iorfa at RCB:

 

3-3 draw at Birmingham (19/20 season - Iorfa subbed at half-time at 2-2)

3-0 win at QPR (19/20 season - Iorfa scored)

0-0 draw home to Huddersfield (19/20 season)

5-3 loss at Fulham (19/20 season - shambles)

1-2 loss home to Middlesboro (19/20 season)

0-0 draw at L2 Walsall (20/21 season - League Cup)

2-0 win at Cardiff (20/21 season)

0-0 draw home to Watford (20/21 season)

2-0 loss at Bristol City (20/21 season)

2-2 draw at relegated Wimbledon (21/22 season)

1-1 draw at Cambridge (21/22 season)

1-1 draw at home to Accrington (21/22 season)

2-1 win at home to relegated Wimbledon (21/22 season - Iorfa subbed at 1-1)

3-3 draw at home to Portsmouth (22/23 season)

 

With his experience of playing full-back, I'm not clear quite why he is so bad in that position, but it really doesn't seem to be working. We need to either fix this rapidly or stop playing him there.

Very interesting research. I believe Bruce signed him as a right back. I believe Borner was signed around the same time as centre back. Our current manager likes him as one of three centre backs and from the start has wanted to play three at the back  most of the time,  not because we had the players for it, but because he likes it. He acquired two extra temporary centre backs halfway through last season because of injuries (one injured player was Iorfa) and they seemed to make it work.

The manager also liked playing out from the back from his first arrival although we do not hear so much about it now, and against Sunderland he appeared to go for long ball, but if we revert, Iorfa is not suited to that either.

[heard that pardon]

2 hours ago, SiJ said:

So the reason he can't defend and do the basics is because he's a Lambo

Even a Reliant Robin can do the basics mate.

 

[Bouncing Owl]

Excellent analysis and completely agree that Dom is better and more comfortable as a centre half in a back 4. But I do wonder even if we went to a back 4 now, whether we would see the Old Dom? 

[S20 OWL]

1 hour ago, Jim said:

2 or 3 years ago he looked as good as any player we had. Now he’s a shadow of that player and both injuries and a change in our style of play have played a part in this.

 

Early days I know but if I was Moore I’d seriously think about moving forward without him as a first choice and I suspect he will move on sooner rather than later.

I agree, perhaps loaning him out to get regular game time as a previous post suggested may help get him back where he was.