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Just loans from now on in - Please


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Hopefully we can finalise our squad with loan players. I am happy with who we have signed but they are proven League 1 top end players. On the presumption we get promoted we don't want to be stuck with to many top end league 1 players. We would need to replace them with top end Championship playes, 

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That can be an issue however when you go up you get more money...  I think the important bit is that we are not paying them too much so if we do need to get rid of any players we can sell them on to the likes of Derby next year...   The problem with loans as we have seen is the reason teams send out players on loan is to develop them or get them match fit..  We saw with BPF that second half of the season he was so much better than the first, now I know part of that was the system and defence but he did cost us a few points with his inexperience at the start, that was the difference between playoffs and autos...  

 

Clearly Moore is wanting to get experienced league one players in so unless we get players like Harlee Dean etc then think we still need one or two more, we have really so far only got players on free transfers, we need to concentrate on getting promoted and not presume like its a done deal as its going to be another tight league this year..

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Problem is IF they’re decent they end up going back and you can lose that momentum. Look at the p1gs as an example. Morgan Gibbs White was scoring for fun. They ain’t a chance there now. 
 

 

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I'd always advocate for contracted players. Loan players have their place but are a pure financial drain, very short term. Often also have loan fees too in addition to wages.

 

What we appear to be doing is signing experienced players available for free and looking to invest in younger players, such as Wilks, Joseph for example. Loans should be used to plug gaps and flesh out the squad if budget tight or the right players aren't available on permanent deals. 

 

It's a more sustainable model to have some asset value on the books rather than just a wage liability.

 

 

 

 

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53 minutes ago, marshy said:

Problem is IF they’re decent they end up going back and you can lose that momentum. Look at the p1gs as an example. Morgan Gibbs White was scoring for fun. They ain’t a chance there now. 
 

 

 

But if you do go up you are stuck with players of the quality of division below. Loans clear out giving the resources and capacity  to build for the new division.

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We could maybe instead go for younger players 21-24 sort of age bracket that with hme time will be good enough in div 1 and hopefully progress to be solid championship players in the future.. 

Wilks for me is a good example, he may prove himself of being a solid champ winger/striker over the next few seasons and be a good back up if we get promoted, yet be fantastic (hopefully) getting us promoted this season. 

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Some decent loan players can really make a difference to a teams season , look at Clarke and Broadhead at Sunderland . We had success in the past but it’s something we’ve not really nailed the last few seasons!! 

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29 minutes ago, shezzas left peg said:

We could maybe instead go for younger players 21-24 sort of age bracket that with hme time will be good enough in div 1 and hopefully progress to be solid championship players in the future.. 

Wilks for me is a good example, he may prove himself of being a solid champ winger/striker over the next few seasons and be a good back up if we get promoted, yet be fantastic (hopefully) getting us promoted this season. 

Yes, this is my preferred strategy. One or two loanees maybe.

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Sorry, I disagree.

 

I view loan players as short term / no term planning, by using loan players you are developing players, giving them first team experience, then handing them back to the benefit of their parent club, frequently paying for the 'privelege', by way of wages / loan fees. I think the loan system contributes to bigger clubs maintaining their status quo.

 

This was highlighted in a really good post in another thread a few weeks ago (sorry, but can't find the poster or thread) discussing Brentford's approach to player development. To summarise, IIRC Brentford have had only 1 loan player in the last 5 years. Instead, they have invested (paid transfer fees) in youth (in the vast majority U23's), developed them and then sold at a profit as appropriate. All the while progressing both on and off the pitch.

 

But this requires longer term planning and putting infrastructure and scouting networks in place, before the real benefits could be seen in 3 / 4 years time. It would also contribute considerably to working towards the club becoming financially more stable.

 

In my view short termism ( be it managers appointments, loan players, immediate success, etc, etc) is what is causing such upheaval and turmoil in football. What we need is a longer term structured approach to club progression, rather than $h!t or bust spendaggedon every few years in an attempt to 'buy' promotion.

 

If we did have (say) £5m to spend on transfer fees, I'd far prefer us to buy 4 players for £1.25m all U23 and all well researched with good development potential, rather than 1 journeyman Pro for £5m to 'get us over the line'.

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9 hours ago, Rotherham Owl said:

Hopefully we can finalise our squad with loan players. I am happy with who we have signed but they are proven League 1 top end players. On the presumption we get promoted we don't want to be stuck with to many top end league 1 players. We would need to replace them with top end Championship playes, 

i dont think you can worry about how you'll fare  in the championship when your stuck in league 1 ........everything should geared to us getting out of this division .

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1 hour ago, torryowl said:

i dont think you can worry about how you'll fare  in the championship when your stuck in league 1 ........everything should geared to us getting out of this division .

 

Agreed, everything should be geared up to getting us out of this division, hence loans (and I am now adding 1 year contracts).

 

If we succeed then the loans and one year contracts will be released and we can bring in Championship quality players. If we don't get promoted then we can replace them for better players, ones who could get us promoted the following year.

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1 hour ago, torryowl said:

i dont think you can worry about how you'll fare  in the championship when your stuck in league 1 ........everything should geared to us getting out of this division .

 

This is where I stand. It's an avenue to bring in quality that might not be available on a free or affordable on a transfer, to help you out in the short-to-medium term. The immediate priority is getting out of this league and I don't think we can turn our nose up at loans from The Championship to help achieve it.

 

There are ways to go about it though. We wasted too much time and money on too many loans last year, but that was because we had to chuck a squad together at the last minute and see what stuck. This year is different because we can look to loans to fill gaps and supplement quality. It's using the market on our terms for what we want. I think we still need 3-4 players and would prefer 2 of them to be contracted, but I won't complain with another 1 or 2 smart additions if they end up being loans.

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38 minutes ago, slinger208b said:


I think that’s the point…

I read differently. 

 

The post was saying now favouring loans so that if we are promoted were not stuck with 'League 1 standard' players who we have to replace with better.

 

My point was, if we loan players, were going to have to replace them with better anyway? 

 

At least permanent players would allow consistency in the event of promotion (if that even happens)

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12 hours ago, Rotherham Owl said:

Hopefully we can finalise our squad with loan players. I am happy with who we have signed but they are proven League 1 top end players. On the presumption we get promoted we don't want to be stuck with to many top end league 1 players. We would need to replace them with top end Championship playes, 

I disagree get your own players in, loans should only be used as emergency signings or if you can get a loan with a option to sign permanent 

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4 hours ago, WhiteOwl91 said:

I read differently. 

 

The post was saying now favouring loans so that if we are promoted were not stuck with 'League 1 standard' players who we have to replace with better.

 

My point was, if we loan players, were going to have to replace them with better anyway? 

 

At least permanent players would allow consistency in the event of promotion (if that even happens)

 

I think the OP was saying "not stuck with 'League 1 standard' players so we can with replace with better" so not committing to 2/3 yr contracts and allowing more flexibility to sign players for a Championship challenge.

 

...

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16 hours ago, Rotherham Owl said:

Hopefully we can finalise our squad with loan players. I am happy with who we have signed but they are proven League 1 top end players. On the presumption we get promoted we don't want to be stuck with to many top end league 1 players. We would need to replace them with top end Championship playes, 

 

How about bringing couple of talented lads We could call our own to complement such an experienced side and that We could develop into players that would become backbone of Championship side next season? 

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