marshy Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 I do think Moore will have to do something special next season or it could be curtains. The question is when. The difficulty is the fact we need practically a new defence addition to midfield and up top. It isn’t going to be easy 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morganowl Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 On 28/05/2022 at 12:27, ChapSmurf said: Prior to the new influx of new players, and having had 15 senior pros leave, yes. A bottom half finish was more than possible. Wage bills have nothing to do with the quality of a player, merely a reflection of their demands. I think Moore, along with senior players like Bannan, deserve credit for helping get the new players across the line at the start of last season. Going forward, Moore does deserve to go again. We were up against it last season with regards to recruitment, as we couldn't sign anyone for a fee. The coming season will be different. We'll have to see where we are after 10 games, and hopefully we will be up there challenging, as I hope and expect. we are in league 1 m8 coming off c+vid clubs were financially in a mess ,name clubs in league 1 what spashed the cash last season? income is much much lower in league 1 you cant be bidding 1 million for players . chansiri gave d moore huge backing much more than most of us thought . if he didnt then our sorry u23 players would have been half the team and yes then top 12 would have been extremely unlikely . most supporters inc me are happy enough for d moore to have another crack at it but id doubt any more will be spent unless say we get 1.2 million for windass and that was reinvested . expect all the players who have left inc loans to allow us to bring in a few decent replacements . its wages in this league where we can have an advantage over 90% of clubs in this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areNOTwhatTHEYseem Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 1 hour ago, Kevin Pressmans Pen said: We didn’t win promotion though with the highest budget in the league. I don’t really get the rush to make excuses for it. In terms of squad turnover it’s already been shown that it’s not unusual to bring in half a new squad at this level. We brought in a similar number of players to most of the other sides. Even Rotherham brought in 9 (I think from memory when I last looked it up) but they didn’t write off the first half of the season. We’re going to have the same thing next season as we need about 8 new players and will have a mostly new defence. We had injuries yes but we also had a much bigger squad than our rivals so could cope with it. We chose to play 3 centre halves when we didn’t have 3 available, we could have sensibly switched to a back 4 and didn’t do. We chose to play players out of position when we had young players we could have brought in in the right position like Brennan. These things cost us points. He gets another go next season but the idea that he’s building something and has done a good job so far is laughable. It's not 'making excuses'; it's looking at the wider context rather than seeing everything as black and white. Our squad retention from last season was fairly low: 42.2% of the previous season's league minutes were completed by players still at our club last season. Since you brought them up as a comparison, Rotherham's was 67.2%. If you look at teams who changed their squads more than us last summer, none did particularly well... We clearly need to recruit in certain positions this summer, but we now have a core of players who are accustomed to our tactics and style of play, so we should be better placed to build on that than we were when largely starting from scratch last season. You clearly disagree, but I don't see what's so laughable about seeing our form since November as a sign that Moore is building something here. Our club was an absolute basket case last season, and we crash-landed in League One with a bump. Last summer, things were looking bleak. We had a mass exodus of experienced players, recouping a grand total of bugger-all in the process, were still under transfer restrictions, and the players who remained seemed thoroughly demoralised. Remember that Bannan interview where he said, "A lot of people are leaving behind the scenes. It’s not a great place to be at the minute", for example? There was a lot broken at this club, and that's before we even mention things like our dreadful record of failing to come from behind, or how Hillsborough had yet again become a place where we struggled to perform. If you'd offered me a top six finish at that point, I'd have snatched your hand off. It wasn't a perfect season; it was never going to be. Moore had so much to try to fix. But we've found an identity; we've reversed some unwanted records; and we've played some damn good football in the process. 4th position, 85 points, and topping the form table since the start of November gives me hope for next season. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandypants Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 I despair when I see some of the over expectation posted on here. Surely, people understand that having the highest budget in the league (and I don’t believe we have proof it was) doesn’t guarantee promotion? Surely, people understand that having long term injuries to key players in every position (bar goalkeeper and wingbacks)?affects a team’s ability to succeed? I’m not saying we can’t criticise people but, come on, let’s look at the bigger picture. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areNOTwhatTHEYseem Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 11 minutes ago, shandypants said: I despair when I see some of the over expectation posted on here. Surely, people understand that having the highest budget in the league (and I don’t believe we have proof it was) doesn’t guarantee promotion? Surely, people understand that having long term injuries to key players in every position (bar goalkeeper and wingbacks)?affects a team’s ability to succeed? I’m not saying we can’t criticise people but, come on, let’s look at the bigger picture. Yeah, but we didn’t win promotion though with the highest budget in the league. Ad infinitum... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 13 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said: It's not 'making excuses'; it's looking at the wider context rather than seeing everything as black and white. Our squad retention from last season was fairly low: 42.2% of the previous season's league minutes were completed by players still at our club last season. Since you brought them up as a comparison, Rotherham's was 67.2%. If you look at teams who changed their squads more than us last summer, none did particularly well... We clearly need to recruit in certain positions this summer, but we now have a core of players who are accustomed to our tactics and style of play, so we should be better placed to build on that than we were when largely starting from scratch last season. You clearly disagree, but I don't see what's so laughable about seeing our form since November as a sign that Moore is building something here. Our club was an absolute basket case last season, and we crash-landed in League One with a bump. Last summer, things were looking bleak. We had a mass exodus of experienced players, recouping a grand total of bugger-all in the process, were still under transfer restrictions, and the players who remained seemed thoroughly demoralised. Remember that Bannan interview where he said, "A lot of people are leaving behind the scenes. It’s not a great place to be at the minute", for example? There was a lot broken at this club, and that's before we even mention things like our dreadful record of failing to come from behind, or how Hillsborough had yet again become a place where we struggled to perform. If you'd offered me a top six finish at that point, I'd have snatched your hand off. It wasn't a perfect season; it was never going to be. Moore had so much to try to fix. But we've found an identity; we've reversed some unwanted records; and we've played some damn good football in the process. 4th position, 85 points, and topping the form table since the start of November gives me hope for next season. There’s lies, damn lies and statistics though. The % thingy sounds impressive until you think about it and break it down. 1 player out of 11 is about 9%, so all that means is that on average Rotherham had about 2.5-3 less new players in their starting line up than we did compared to the year before. That’s not a massive difference. And they’re the outlier I assume as that’s why you picked them.. Wigan and Sunderland would be lower and more like 1 less new player which isn’t even much of a difference at all. Then implicitly we’re also making the assumption it’s a benefit to have a settled side and fewer new players. If anything it can be the opposite if you’ve a poor team. Particularly after relegation you want new players. Another example - if Man Utd change most of their team for next season they’ll probably do better than carrying on with the toxic one they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areNOTwhatTHEYseem Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 1 minute ago, Kevin Pressmans Pen said: There’s lies, damn lies and statistics though. The % thingy sounds impressive until you think about it and break it down. 1 player out of 11 is about 9%, so all that means is that on average Rotherham had about 2.5-3 less new players in their starting line up than we did compared to the year before. That’s not a massive difference. And they’re the outlier I assume as that’s why you picked them.. Wigan and Sunderland would be lower and more like 1 less new player which isn’t even much of a difference at all. Then implicitly we’re also making the assumption it’s a benefit to have a settled side and fewer new players. If anything it can be the opposite if you’ve a poor team. Particularly after relegation you want new players. Another example - if Man Utd change most of their team for next season they’ll probably do better than carrying on with the toxic one they have. I didn't pick them - you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandypants Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 12 minutes ago, Kevin Pressmans Pen said: There’s lies, damn lies and statistics though. The % thingy sounds impressive until you think about it and break it down. 1 player out of 11 is about 9%, so all that means is that on average Rotherham had about 2.5-3 less new players in their starting line up than we did compared to the year before. That’s not a massive difference. And they’re the outlier I assume as that’s why you picked them.. Wigan and Sunderland would be lower and more like 1 less new player which isn’t even much of a difference at all. Then implicitly we’re also making the assumption it’s a benefit to have a settled side and fewer new players. If anything it can be the opposite if you’ve a poor team. Particularly after relegation you want new players. Another example - if Man Utd change most of their team for next season they’ll probably do better than carrying on with the toxic one they have. Man Utd and us Is a poor comparison. Man Utd can attract stellar players with less effort than the vast majority of the Prem; plus, by hook or by crook, they always find the money to buy these stellar players. We were relegated to League One last year with a shocking squad that needed major surgery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 40 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said: I didn't pick them - you did. Well when I looked at squad turnover Rotherham had the least of the top 8, ours wasn’t significantly different to most of the rest. So was assuming your %s would show that 34 minutes ago, shandypants said: Man Utd and us Is a poor comparison. Man Utd can attract stellar players with less effort than the vast majority of the Prem; plus, by hook or by crook, they always find the money to buy these stellar players. We were relegated to League One last year with a shocking squad that needed major surgery. We’re the Man Utd of league 1 when it comes to attracting players, it’s all relative to the level you’re at Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4evaowl Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 Real pressure on DM (any Wednesday manager really) from day one. After not progressing through the play offs, demands increase for us to be in the top two right from the off. With the changes he needs to make with players leaving it's nowhere near a given. I think we'll be playoffs again next year and will have to endure the lottery of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sefton owl Posted May 29, 2022 Author Share Posted May 29, 2022 1 hour ago, Kevin Pressmans Pen said: Well when I looked at squad turnover Rotherham had the least of the top 8, ours wasn’t significantly different to most of the rest. So was assuming your %s would show that We’re the Man Utd of league 1 when it comes to attracting players, it’s all relative to the level you’re at So who are the man city and Liverpool of league one then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GermanBird Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 Guess the progress is easy to see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 9 minutes ago, GermanBird said: Guess the progress is easy to see Some people see that and want to say Darren Moore isn’t good enough Amazing 1 Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megsonstheman Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 Top 2 by end of October, if not get rid 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Musttryharder Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 On 28/05/2022 at 09:41, @owlstalk said: Again For the record Darren Moore, Manager of Sheffield Wednesday FC has made mistakes, tactical errors, bizarre substitutions and weird starting lineups from time to time Let me just state that again for those who will (undoubtedly) try and suggest it's never discussed or admitted or stated... Darren Moore, Manager of Sheffield Wednesday FC has made mistakes, tactical errors, bizarre substitutions and weird starting lineups from time to time Thing is though he's also got us to the playoff semi finals, had us playing attractive, exciting, attacking football, scoring more goals than we have any right to, had goals coming in from 20 different players, and achieved record attendance figures away from home (which wouldn't happen if we were playing dire football or not in with a chance of promotion) It's just that some like to dwell on the mistakes instead of themselves admitting that all managers make errors and mistakes, and refusing to look at the bigger picture and instead get influenced by those who seemingly want to hate him no matter what he does. I call those people naive at best. You do like to dramatised issues topics whatever you want to call it. Hate is an extremely big call to make. What exactly is the bigger picture. To me, the bigger picture is we have fairly large coaching/management team and when you remove one from that set up it goes ******** up that's how I read your bigger picture. Mine isn't so big. My little picture is that we are still in division 3. But don't let sentiments get in the way of our progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshy Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 1 hour ago, megsonstheman said: Top 2 by end of October, if not get rid Not saying you’re wrong but, given that we practically need a new defence as we really have Brennan and Iorfa,would that be right? Or, do we have to give time to settle in.? I personally don’t know.One thing I don’t want to see is players being shoehorned into positions, especially if we have players who can play that position. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveClark Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 (edited) Compare this to how someone like say, Ron Atkinson would speak. How maybe, Howard Wilkinson would speak. You have to admit, that some manager are worlds apart in terms of how they communicate. Edited May 29, 2022 by DaveClark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 2 hours ago, Musttryharder said: You do like to dramatised issues topics whatever you want to call it. Hate is an extremely big call to make. What exactly is the bigger picture. To me, the bigger picture is we have fairly large coaching/management team and when you remove one from that set up it goes ******** up that's how I read your bigger picture. Mine isn't so big. My little picture is that we are still in division 3. But don't let sentiments get in the way of our progress. Thats a really long paragraph to not actually have a point?! Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devonstrix Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 On 28/05/2022 at 08:27, Daniele Giovanni said: I am a fan and always will be. As you might know I campaigned to get the legend Ryan Lowe at the club, he could have made an impact but we'll never know, I still believe that DM is not the right man for the job. You didn’t campaign to get the 'legend' Ryan Lowe at the club Daniele. You just banged on about it. Campaigning would have involved standing outside the main entrance with a banner or summat. Or maybe twattering DC. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devonstrix Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 On 28/05/2022 at 05:19, quinnssweetshop said: Nice bloke, weird tactics and team changes. Totally agree with @vulva The longer we stay in this league, the less likely to attract any players willing to help us out of it. I’ve always found vulva totally agreeable and still do. Even at my age. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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