Interview with DM - surprisingly early

[Guest]

1 minute ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

I'm not engaging with you anymore during your hate festival parade.
Take your distasteful comments to someone else if you want to provoke any more attention

You don’t engage seriously anyway

 

Just look to provoke 

[quinnssweetshop]

let's see how he gets on with what is handed to him. Again, who knows ?  he may well have to try and gel a team from players he may not have any choice in buying.
 

UTO

[Sefton owl]

4 hours ago, onlyonedavidhirst said:

For the majority of the last 2-3 years theres been little to look forward to with Wednesday, Chansiri had taken so much of the heart of the club away. I'm not convinced by DM tactically but I'm really looking forward to next season and I particularly enjoyed the second half of last season. Moreover, he has brought some unity and heart back into the club. 

We could be a club on the rise again, we seem to be building some spirit. I don't think you can find a nicer guy than DM and he clearly has connections as well as a good reputation, so I'd like to give him as much time and opportunity as possible. 

There was some sort of stat that in the last 25 years we've only finished top 10 around 6 times so I hope we can reverse that stat. I'd love to see us win the title, it's not happened in the last 50 + years, we've never gone up as Champions even when we had Hirst, Nilsson, Shezza in the team. 

I don't agree with a couple of comments above, even if we were in the division 3 more years (I really hope we aren't) we will still attract players just like Sunderland did last season. The size of the fan base gives us that one advantage, weve just been poor at making it count.

TomtheOwl95 answers some of the other points I disagree with and in respect of the "nowt like rewarding failure" comment, it's worth remembering we all got behind Atkinson when he took us down with a squad that was far far better than where it finished and we got behind Jack despite a very indifferent start as a Wednesday manager. Over a year after their managerial appointment at Wednesday they were both doing worse than Moore.

My biggest reservation is the amount of preseason changes needed, plus the possible reset on formation (will he try 4-2-3-1 again) could lead to another slow start and I really hope he has the wherewithal to not let that happen otherwise fans may quickly be on his back. We do need to restart building the squad with younger players who will be the backbone for a few years

 

I think lots of changes are inevitable, especially when you look at how many loanees we’ve had. 

[@owlstalk]

18 minutes ago, Kevin Pressmans Pen said:

You don’t engage seriously anyway

 

Just look to provoke 

No - I look to defend people in hospital fighting for their lives against people who push the nurses out of the way and sneer and stand pointing at the bloke on his potential death bed and scream at him "Why aren't 'you doing better at your job right now??"

If that provokes you GOOD - OWN IT and take your classy views to someone else to discuss cos I find your views distasteful around this issue

[PTLiam]

1 hour ago, Screen Door Slams said:

 

Quite a few not sure about him...................don`t think anyone "hates" him.

If I was the chairman i'd back him and give him 15 games to be clear in the Top 2, otherwise, i'd make a change. 

 

Hopefully a home game first game of the season to get us on our way. 

 

I think last summer was uncertain.

 

This one is expectant. 

 

 

[quinnssweetshop]

1 minute ago, PTLiam said:

 

 

I think last summer was uncertain.

 

This one is expectant. 

 

 

Good point

[Carl Shutt is God]

2 hours ago, Kevin Pressmans Pen said:

I just don’t think that’s how it works.. when you have the right manager in you just know and the success is usually immediate. Wilder went in at Utd, Season 1 automatic promotion LG1, season 2 top half finish CH, season 3 automatic promotion CH, season 4 top half PL finish. 
 

Bielsa at Leeds - Season 1 nearly got autos then lost in play offs CH, season 2 automatic promotion CH, Season 3 mid table finish PL.

 

Cooper at Forest maybe promotion season 1 on Sunday. Neil at Sunderland comes in and wins promotion immediately from LG1.

 

Managers who are the right fit click straight away. Moore has taken us down then failed to get us promoted. We don’t need to build a sandcastle we need to win football matches and progress up the pyramid.

 

I think you are completely wrong with this. Ron Atkinson took us down......

 

The thing is that nowadays people are so impatient that they demand instant success and most managers don't get any time to prove they can rebuild. Sometimes managers get a bit of luck (along with skill) and you get a Wilder or Bielsa but this is not the norm. To me this is what most clubs are looking for but it is so rare the majority of teams spend their time sacking managers every season and a half because there is no instant success.

 

In todays game Alex Ferguson would not have had the career he had because he would have been sacked prior to getting it right at Man U.

[ChapSmurf]

5 hours ago, morganowl said:

could have been looking at a bottom half finish? when our wage bill last season was 10x that of morecambe accrington cheltenham fleetwood and 2-3 others . he was heavily backed in fact it surprised me and others how well he was backed . top 6 last season was an absolute minimum this season top 2 . 

the reality is though we could still be in this league for years if the right recruitment and tactics aint used properly.  d moore deserves to have another go but if we aint top 6 and pushing top 2 by october we need a change if the right man is out there , a neil i touted as a new manager at xmas look what happened with him. 

 

Prior to the new influx of new players, and having had 15 senior pros leave, yes. A bottom half finish was more than possible. Wage bills have nothing to do with the quality of a player, merely a reflection of their demands. I think Moore, along with senior players like Bannan, deserve credit for helping get the new players across the line at the start of last season.

 

Going forward, Moore does deserve to go again. We were up against it last season with regards to recruitment, as we couldn't sign anyone for a fee. The coming season will be different. We'll have to see where we are after 10 games, and hopefully we will be up there challenging, as I hope and expect.

[Teddy Nickelarse]

1 hour ago, quinnssweetshop said:

Good point

Seconded.

[Mountain Owl]

12 hours ago, TomtheOwl95 said:

No he didn't, he said there were too many positives to chuck it all away now. At no point did he say it was a "triumph".

 

Paul Warne had the advantage of no transfer embargo, a mostly fully fit squad and continuity of the last few years. He's been a manager for longer, they should have gone up and they did. We had to build a whole new team, that takes time.

 

He made the changes after the 6-0 for fitness reasons, which is sensible when you have the awful record of injuries that we do over the last few years, again those kind of things take time to fix and part of that might even be above Darren Moore.

 

Changing the manager would be counter productive, he's build well with all those circumstances, he deserves the chance to carry that on. If you look at the form since January and average it out over a full season which I expect us to do then we should achieve promotion.

Excellent post.

Continuity will be the key to promotion. Fans seem to conveniently forget we are the target for all other clubs in this league to beat and because of that it makes the task somewhat harder. Sunderland have proved how hard it is and likewise ourselves the many times we have been in this league.

If the squad put as much work into the task as DM is willing to do that should counter balance the above negative factor.

 

[TomtheOwl95]

13 minutes ago, Mountain Owl said:

Excellent post.

Continuity will be the key to promotion. Fans seem to conveniently forget we are the target for all other clubs in this league to beat and because of that it makes the task somewhat harder. Sunderland have proved how hard it is and likewise ourselves the many times we have been in this league.

If the squad put as much work into the task as DM is willing to do that should counter balance the above negative factor.

 

And to add to that, a lot of the issues people seem to have with Moore are things that were happening before January.

 

We were a very different team in the first few months of the season and even quite different at the end compared to how we were at the beginning of that unbeaten run we went on.

[shandypants]

I really like Moore, not only as a manager but also how he appears to be as a person. He seems to be very genuine and not full of himself or full of 5h1t. 
 

I honestly think he’ll go on and have a great managerial career; I just hope that is with us. 

[Kendo Nagasaki]

15 hours ago, TomtheOwl95 said:

No he didn't, he said there were too many positives to chuck it all away now. At no point did he say it was a "triumph".

 

Paul Warne had the advantage of no transfer embargo, a mostly fully fit squad and continuity of the last few years. He's been a manager for longer, they should have gone up and they did. We had to build a whole new team, that takes time.

 

He made the changes after the 6-0 for fitness reasons, which is sensible when you have the awful record of injuries that we do over the last few years, again those kind of things take time to fix and part of that might even be above Darren Moore.

 

Changing the manager would be counter productive, he's build well with all those circumstances, he deserves the chance to carry that on. If you look at the form since January and average it out over a full season which I expect us to do then we should achieve promotion.

Good post Tom 

[Luke]

Good talk but that's all it is talk 

 

Results gets you promoted not fancy interviews 

[TomtheOwl95]

1 hour ago, Luke said:

Good talk but that's all it is talk 

 

Results gets you promoted not fancy interviews 

But communication with the fans is something Sheffield Wednesday have got badly wrong over the last few years.

 

Nobody is saying it gets you up but building a good culture around the place is massively important.

[Five Archers]

9 hours ago, PTLiam said:

If I was the chairman i'd back him and give him 15 games to be clear in the Top 2, otherwise, i'd make a change. 

 

Hopefully a home game first game of the season to get us on our way. 

 

I think last summer was uncertain.

 

This one is expectant. 

 

 

So mr chairman Liam, we’re 15 games in but sit in 3rd place, 3 points behind the top 2. 
Who you bringing in to replace Moore? 

[Guest]

22 hours ago, Carl Shutt is God said:

 

I think you are completely wrong with this. Ron Atkinson took us down......

 

The thing is that nowadays people are so impatient that they demand instant success and most managers don't get any time to prove they can rebuild. Sometimes managers get a bit of luck (along with skill) and you get a Wilder or Bielsa but this is not the norm. To me this is what most clubs are looking for but it is so rare the majority of teams spend their time sacking managers every season and a half because there is no instant success.

 

In todays game Alex Ferguson would not have had the career he had because he would have been sacked prior to getting it right at Man U.

Guardiola, Klopp and Tuchel also hit the ground running. What teams did or didn’t do 30-35 years ago is irrelevant really as that’s not how the modern game works. 
 

If we go back 100 years, which is just as relevant as 30 years, managers generally stayed for decades and never got sacked. 
 

Clearly thinking has evolved. You only have to look at how many teams used to win major honours 100 years ago to see that even as a big club winning was difficult as everyone had a chance and most teams were fairly similar in quality. 
 

By the 80s it had become a bit more concentrated but still a fair amount of variability in who could win. That was why a team like us were able to finish 3rd. It’s also why the managers were cut a bit more slack, teams in the second tier could win the league cup.

 

In the modern game it’s become much more concentrated. Results are heavily correlated with expenditure. Teams with the biggest budgets expect to win. Managers also provide more of an edge than they ever used to.. better tactics and preparation. So the gap between the good ones and bad ones is much more obvious.
 

The reality is you have to keep replacing your manager until you find one that fits and delivers what’s expected based on expenditure. Moore hasn’t done that.. he’ll get another crack but he’s on thin ice. By your method of just giving someone time.. how do you differentiate between a manager who you give time to who then improves at some point and delivers, and one who is just a no hoper and a waste of time? You can’t differentiate I don’t think so the safest bet is to look for a manager that hits the ground running. I’ve given at least half a dozen examples of such managers at various levels so they do exist.

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

2 minutes ago, Kevin Pressmans Pen said:

By your method of just giving someone time.. how do you differentiate between a manager who you give time to who then improves at some point and delivers, and one who is just a no hoper and a waste of time? You can’t differentiate I don’t think so the safest bet is to look for a manager that hits the ground running. I’ve given at least half a dozen examples of such managers at various levels so they do exist.

 

Giving a manager time for the sake of it would be pointless, yes.

 

But it's not too difficult to spot a manager who's showing signs of progress vs, as you put it, 'a no hoper and a waste of time'.

 

If you factor in the high squad turnover and the ridiculous injury list for much of last season, the first few months were underwhelming, but perhaps understandable. 

 

We were then the form team in the division from November onwards. If Moore can simply continue the form we've shown for the past seven months, then we'll hit the ground running without the need to gamble on a new manager.

[shandypants]

4 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

Giving a manager time for the sake of it would be pointless, yes.

 

But it's not too difficult to spot a manager who's showing signs of progress vs, as you put it, 'a no hoper and a waste of time'.

 

If you factor in the high squad turnover and the ridiculous injury list for much of last season, the first few months were underwhelming, but perhaps understandable. 

 

We were then the form team in the division from November onwards. If Moore can simply continue the form we've shown for the past seven months, then we'll hit the ground running without the need to gamble on a new manager.

Spot on. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

Giving a manager time for the sake of it would be pointless, yes.

 

But it's not too difficult to spot a manager who's showing signs of progress vs, as you put it, 'a no hoper and a waste of time'.

 

If you factor in the high squad turnover and the ridiculous injury list for much of last season, the first few months were underwhelming, but perhaps understandable. 

 

We were then the form team in the division from November onwards. If Moore can simply continue the form we've shown for the past seven months, then we'll hit the ground running without the need to gamble on a new manager.

We didn’t win promotion though with the highest budget in the league. 
 

I don’t really get the rush to make excuses for it. In terms of squad turnover it’s already been shown that it’s not unusual to bring in half a new squad at this level. We brought in a similar number of players to most of the other sides. Even Rotherham brought in 9 (I think from memory when I last looked it up) but they didn’t write off the first half of the season. We’re going to have the same thing next season as we need about 8 new players and will have a mostly new defence.

 

We had injuries yes but we also had a much bigger squad than our rivals so could cope with it. We chose to play 3 centre halves when we didn’t have 3 available, we could have sensibly switched to a back 4 and didn’t do. We chose to play players out of position when we had young players we could have brought in in the right position like Brennan. These things cost us points.

 

He gets another go next season but the idea that he’s building something and has done a good job so far is laughable.