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Second Guessing Darren Moore


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8 minutes ago, GermanBird said:

 

Are you sure that the formation was the problem at the beginning of the season?

 

I personally believe that our main problem was that the team just had not gelled yet and when they started to know each other, we had one injury after the other.

 

I believe that the squad would have been able to play in other formations - maybe a 4231 - towards the end of the season (with Gregory)

We needed a runner to move CBs around, so the wingers and fullbacks can move into space.

 

See Kamberi's goal v Rotherham.

Kamberi dragged the CBs almost to the left touchline, which gave Pato a 1 on 1 with their LB and acres of space in front to run into. Pato beats his man, runs up, ball into box, goal.

 

Gregory always stays very central, so the CBs do too.

 

When was the last time we had a man get put through in the channels? We don't, as we never make the spaces to run into.

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We need a midfielder like Pritchard & a forward like Stewart. Those two bossed the games against us & with a couple of players of similar quality we could play either formation and be successful imo.
 

If we stick with 3 at the back that’s a lot of recruitment needed.

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5 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

Good.

 

So what do you reckon for next season?

Honestly don't have a clue.

 

I'd say he's sticking with 352, purely  based on offering Hunt another contract, as he struggled massively as a conventional RB early in the season.

 

I will say though, I'm not confident in us getting the calibre of player everyone seems to be expecting on here. 

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2 minutes ago, Tewkesbury said:

Honestly don't have a clue.

 

I'd say he's sticking with 352, purely  based on offering Hunt another contract, as he struggled massively as a conventional RB early in the season.

 

I will say though, I'm not confident in us getting the calibre of player everyone seems to be expecting on here. 

 

It will be interesting to see how things are shaping up as the signings start arriving, won't it?

 

We managed to attract some good players last summer, so hopefully we can repeat the feat again.

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2 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

It will be interesting to see how things are shaping up as the signings start arriving, won't it?

 

We managed to attract some good players last summer, so hopefully we can repeat the feat again.

Sunderland going up is probably a big help. 

 

One less big club to compete for signings with. 

 

I feel like we've got that core of experience and need to add younger players with a bit more legs, pace etc. 

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1 minute ago, SiJ said:

Sunderland going up is probably a big help. 

 

One less big club to compete for signings with. 

 

I feel like we've got that core of experience and need to add younger players with a bit more legs, pace etc. 

 

Yep.

 

We'd have been fishing in the same pool of players as them, no doubt.

 

I'd like to think we could beat Wycombe to any prospective signing.

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Just now, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

I'd like to think we could beat Wycombe to any prospective signing.

Christ yes. 

 

If we can't offer more desirable terms than that lot then we might as well give up. 

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Here's a question.

 

Based on last season, if you were an agent for a young attacker, looking for gametime and to make his mark, would you recommend Wednesday, or one of the other 8-9 clubs who will be competing for playoff spots?

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Just now, Tewkesbury said:

Here's a question.

 

Based on last season, if you were an agent for a young attacker, looking for gametime and to make his mark, would you recommend Wednesday, or one of the other 8-9 clubs who will be competing for playoff spots?

 

Wednesday, obviously.

 

They get to play alongside Lee Gregory here.

 

💋

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I hope he sticks with 352 for the overwhelming majority of games. As the OP’s posts about our points tally it clearly works well enough for an auto spot.

 

I hope he recruits two out and out strikers, so we have 3 including Gregory. I hate it when we’ve tried to convert wide players.  
 

We definitely need a quality left-footed CB.

 

As for second guessing Moore, not a chance.

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22 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

We managed to attract some good players last summer, so hopefully we can repeat the feat again.

 

You remember that Kamberi and Jaden Brown were starters early in the season, and before Christmas we all thought Berahino was a failure?

 

Going back to the question about formation for next season, I think a lot will depend on what strikers we manage to sign, they're the expensive/big salary players for good reason and it makes sense to adapt tactics around who we can get.  I think Johnson, Hunt and Palmer are excellent League One wingbacks so probably stay with three at the back if Hunt stays.

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1 hour ago, room0035 said:

DM has been here for over 15 months now he know the players he has, he still has no wing backs at the club, he has full backs and wingers.

 

if he want to play 3-5-2 then he need to recruit 2 wing backs, he has 1 senior centre back who has spent more time injured than playing for the last 2 years.

 

so before we even look who plays up front he needs 5 new signings, we have 2 keepers who both have not shown yet whether they are good enough for league one football.

 

Should Moore stick with 3-5-2 then he need the players to play the system which he currently does not have.S

 

should we revert to a 4-4-2 he has 2 full backs, at least two wingers, and would only then need possible 2 centre backs depending on Iorfa's fitness and whether Brennan will get more involvement.

 

2 full backs, yes; but both are right backs!

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1 hour ago, Tewkesbury said:

When, honestly have we concentrated on the opposition?

 

If we had, we'd change it up to counter the press  but we never do.

The only changes made are when DM tinkers around throwing squad players in for a game at a time to fill the gaps till his favourites are back available.

 

For the first half of the season, Moore made 3 or 4 changes every game. It wasn't just tinkering, it smacked of trying to be too clever along with a lack of confidence. 

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26 minutes ago, Tewkesbury said:

Here's a question.

 

Based on last season, if you were an agent for a young attacker, looking for gametime and to make his mark, would you recommend Wednesday, or one of the other 8-9 clubs who will be competing for playoff spots?

 

We won't be competing for a play off spot.

 

 

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Those Sunderland line ups in the OP are actually a great example of how we haven’t necessarily played 3-5-2 every game.

 

Sunderland have effectively played the same formation in both games there. The difference you’re seeing is how they set up with and without the ball. Gooch dropping into full back, allowing Embleton to become the extra man in a front 3 is very similar to the axis we rotate on that allows Hunt & Johnson to do the same in game when we’ve got the ball.

 

In possession the 5 becomes a 4. Having Palmer in the back 3 allowed us to do this really effectively. Moore’s crime in both legs was shoehorning Dean, Storey & Hutchinson together. This killed the width, and arguably our two main threats, as both wing backs became easily pinned back by Roberts & Clarke. 
 

Chuck Palmer into that back 3. When we attack down the left Palmer covers Roberts, Hunt covers Clarke and Johnson is free to push on. The other way Storey picks up Clarke, Johnson takes Roberts and Hunt is then free. Hutchinson in the ‘LCB’ spot really killed us going forward, and had killed us on the previous occasions it had been experimented with too. That was the disappointment for me.

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1 hour ago, SiJ said:

Fullback would need to be a priority too then imo. 

 

Lot of the width in a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3 comes from fullbacks. 

 

Hunt and Johnson as fullbacks possibly Palmer too? Hunt obviously played that role for many years, but I'm not certain how well he would do now. Johnson is a great wingback, not so sure he's got the defensive skills to play fullback for a whole season. Liam would do his usual steady job at fullback, but he's not the most dynamic going forward is he. 

 

Johnson isn't a defender. 

 

He can deliver a decent cross and has a decent left peg for the odd shot at goal, but he costs goals as part of a back 3/4.

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2 hours ago, Tewkesbury said:

When, honestly have we concentrated on the opposition?

 

If we had, we'd change it up to counter the press  but we never do.

The only changes made are when DM tinkers around throwing squad players in for a game at a time to fill the gaps till his favourites are back available.

Wycombe away ! 

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1 hour ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

Again, I agree.

 

We need to recruit wingbacks for the 3-5-2 as it is. There's no way we can rely on Hunt and Johnson to play week in, week out again next season, and Palmer is really only a stand-in for that role, isn't he? As a standard full-back, he's pretty solid at this level, though.

 

I just wonder if we'll target full-backs who are comfortable covering at wingback as well, which might allow us to play two of Hunt, Johnson, Windass, or Mendez-Laing as wingers, depending on form, opposition, etc...

 

Palmer's not good going forward. 

 

He's done a great job at this level filling in across the back. Loves the club and gives his all. But he's not great going forward. 

 

We need better if we want to mount a serious challenge next season.

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