Second Guessing Darren Moore

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

Moore spoke several times last season of adopting different formations to suit different games, but it never really happened once we hit upon our successful 3-5-2, did it?

 

Comments such as this from last October ring hollow with the benefit of seven months' hindsight, but perhaps hint at where he might want to take this squad as he shapes it further to his liking over the summer...

 

"Listen, 3-5-2 is one system I will play. It is not always the same system.

 

"Will I stick with the formation? No. Is there a possibility of going back to 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2? Yes, there is every possibility I could back to them."

 

I know there'll be some on here to whom the idea of adapting our approach to suit different opponents will be anathema , but we've just seen Sunderland win the playoffs by playing a 3-4-1-2 against us, before switching to a 4-2-3-1 to face Wycombe in the final:

 

 

 

Can you imagine the meltdown on here if we'd made the final and Moore had suddenly switched to a back four?!

 

 

I joke, but that meltdown wouldn't have been without good reason, most probably. And the reason is that we simply didn't have the players to successfully adapt our approach. Clearly we recruited for a 4-2-3-1 / 4-1-4-1 last summer, but we lacked the kind of tall, athletic centre-forward to really make it work, and so 3-5-2 became pretty much our only way of playing. We needed a pair of strikers one up top; two midfielders to play alongside Bannan in the centre; and the relative security of three at the back - once we found success with our 3-5-2, we pretty much stuck with it.

 

But as much as it worked for us last season, 3-5-2 clearly isn't Moore's 'go to' formation: at Donny, he almost exclusively played 4-2-3-1, whilst at West Brom he mixed it up a bit more, switching between 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3, 4-4-2 and 3-5-2 depending on the game.

 

I'm not suggesting we're about to ditch the 3-5-2, as it's clearly serving us well, but do we think Moore might use this summer to recruit players to suit two formations in order to allow himself the tactical flexibility he seemed to hint at wanting at times last year?

 

I could see a scenario where he adds a tall, athletic target man who excels as a lone striker, and looks to play the likes of Mendez-Laing and Windass wide of him in some games, whilst using that same striker up top alongside Gregory in our familiar 3-5-2 in others, for example.

 

If we're going to adopt this more flexible approach, having that kind of option among our forwards is a must, and we'll need to recruit some wide players who are comfortable both as wing-backs and as more traditional full-backs, as well.

 

I'm thinking our two formations could look something like this:

 

 

 

So what are we saying?

 

Do we reckon Moore has seen enough success with the 3-5-2 to stick with it almost exclusively now?

 

Or do we reckon his desire for a bit more tactical flexibility will see him recruit the kind of players who allow him to adapt our formation to suit each game, à la Alex Neil and, most probably, his own natural inclination?

[Guest]

It’s quite simple really, the meltdown comes when we don’t win games that we should win. Nobody cares what formation he plays as long as he delivers. Neil has gone 16 games unbeaten and won promotion, Moore hasn’t delivered.

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

1 minute ago, Kevin Pressmans Pen said:

It’s quite simple really, the meltdown comes when we don’t win games that we should win. Nobody cares what formation he plays as long as he delivers. Neil has gone 16 games unbeaten and won promotion, Moore hasn’t delivered.

 

Hmmm...none of that really addresses my post, though.

 

[Mighty Quinn]

It's too long

[Guest Musttryharder]

8 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

Moore spoke several times last season of adopting different formations to suit different games, but it never really happened once we hit upon our successful 3-5-2, did it?

 

Comments such as this from last October ring hollow with the benefit of seven months' hindsight, but perhaps hint at where he might want to take this squad as he shapes it further to his liking over the summer...

 

"Listen, 3-5-2 is one system I will play. It is not always the same system.

 

"Will I stick with the formation? No. Is there a possibility of going back to 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2? Yes, there is every possibility I could back to them."

 

I know there'll be some on here to whom the idea of adapting our approach to suit different opponents will be anathema , but we've just seen Sunderland win the playoffs by playing a 3-4-1-2 against us, before switching to a 4-2-3-1 to face Wycombe in the final:

 

 

 

Can you imagine the meltdown on here if we'd made the final and Moore had suddenly switched to a back four?!

 

 

I joke, but that meltdown wouldn't have been without good reason, most probably. And the reason is that we simply didn't have the players to successfully adapt our approach. Clearly we recruited for a 4-2-3-1 / 4-1-4-1 last summer, but we lacked the kind of tall, athletic centre-forward to really make it work, and so 3-5-2 became pretty much our only way of playing. We needed a pair of strikers one up top; two midfielders to play alongside Bannan in the centre; and the relative security of three at the back - once we found success with our 3-5-2, we pretty much stuck with it.

 

But as much as it worked for us last season, 3-5-2 clearly isn't Moore's 'go to' formation: at Donny, he almost exclusively played 4-2-3-1, whilst at West Brom he mixed it up a bit more, switching between 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3, 4-4-2 and 3-5-2 depending on the game.

 

I'm not suggesting we're about to ditch the 3-5-2, as it's clearly serving us well, but do we think Moore might use this summer to recruit players to suit two formations in order to allow himself the tactical flexibility he seemed to hint at wanting at times last year?

 

I could see a scenario where he adds a tall, athletic target man who excels as a lone striker, and looks to play the likes of Mendez-Laing and Windass wide of him in some games, whilst using that same striker up top alongside Gregory in our familiar 3-5-2 in others, for example.

 

If we're going to adopt this more flexible approach, having that kind of option among our forwards is a must, and we'll need to recruit some wide players who are comfortable both as wing-backs and as more traditional full-backs, as well.

 

I'm thinking our two formations could look something like this:

 

 

 

So what are we saying?

 

Do we reckon Moore has seen enough success with the 3-5-2 to stick with it almost exclusively now?

 

Or do we reckon his desire for a bit more tactical flexibility will see him recruit the kind of players who allow him to adapt our formation to suit each game, à la Alex Neil and, most probably, his own natural inclination?

It doesn't matter one jot what formation you play if you haven't a game plan. DM concentrates too much on the opposition rather than let them worry about us. Is it going to change next season. Of course it won't 

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

Just now, Mighty Quinn said:

It's too long

 

It's a thread for the more discerning Owlstalkers.

 

I'm hoping they'll turn up soon...

 

[SiJ]

9 minutes ago, Kevin Pressmans Pen said:

It’s quite simple really, the meltdown comes when we don’t win any game. Then me, and the other lot, come on here and moan all the f*cking time. 

 

[Mighty Quinn]

2 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

It's a thread for the more discerning Owlstalkers.

 

I'm hoping they'll turn up soon...

 

Oooooooh get you duck....

[room0035]

DM has been here for over 15 months now he know the players he has, he still has no wing backs at the club, he has full backs and wingers.

 

if he want to play 3-5-2 then he need to recruit 2 wing backs, he has 1 senior centre back who has spent more time injured than playing for the last 2 years.

 

so before we even look who plays up front he needs 5 new signings, we have 2 keepers who both have not shown yet whether they are good enough for league one football.

 

Should Moore stick with 3-5-2 then he need the players to play the system which he currently does not have.S

 

should we revert to a 4-4-2 he has 2 full backs, at least two wingers, and would only then need possible 2 centre backs depending on Iorfa's fitness and whether Brennan will get more involvement.

[DaveClark]

30 years ago formations were pretty rigid to some but then we finally got players like Le Tissier and Sherringham that started the change, then finally we got central defenders who were more attack minded - however a lot of people forget Wednesday had the original Centre back who could run at the oppo into midfield and onto the wing and put a cross in, - Carlton Palmer.    We also had another not long after, Warhurst.

 

Formations come and go, tactics chance like fashion.

 

I'm almost not bothered what formation we go with, as long as it's square holes for square pegs, and those that don't have a shape have someone who can cover all the roles they are asked to.

 

 

[Tewkesbury]

1 minute ago, Musttryharder said:

It doesn't matter one jot what formation you play if you haven't a game plan. DM concentrates too much on the opposition rather than let them worry about us. Is it going to change next season. Of course it won't 

When, honestly have we concentrated on the opposition?

 

If we had, we'd change it up to counter the press  but we never do.

The only changes made are when DM tinkers around throwing squad players in for a game at a time to fill the gaps till his favourites are back available.

[SiJ]

2 minutes ago, room0035 said:

DM has been here for over 15 months now he know the players he has, he still has no wing backs at the club, he has full backs and wingers.

I'm sorry, but your ability to talk utter bo11ocks is unparalleled on this site. 

 

We don't have any wingbacks? 

 

Marvin Johnson and Jack Hunt are wingbacks. 

 

What a whazzock. 

[SiJ]

We don't have the players to play 3-5-2, but managed to get to 4th and win 85 points. 

 

This with no wingbacks. 

 

Seriously, is there some sort of major issue with hallucinogens within our fanbase? 

 

Valid criticism is fair enough, but when people are just making up sh*t. 

 

 

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

Just now, room0035 said:

DM has been here for over 15 months now he know the players he has, he still has no wing backs at the club, he has full backs and wingers.

 

if he want to play 3-5-2 then he need to recruit 2 wing backs, he has 1 senior centre back who has spent more time injured than playing for the last 2 years.

 

so before we even look who plays up front he needs 5 new signings, we have 2 keepers who both have not shown yet whether they are good enough for league one football.

 

Should Moore stick with 3-5-2 then he need the players to play the system which he currently does not have.S

 

should we revert to a 4-4-2 he has 2 full backs, at least two wingers, and would only then need possible 2 centre backs depending on Iorfa's fitness and whether Brennan will get more involvement.

 

We've just won 70 points from 36 games playing 3-5-2. No team in the division has won more points than us since that tactical switch.

 

And that includes a fair few games with one or get recognised senior centre backs in available.

 

Since we added Dean and Storey, we've won 45 from 20, which puts us clear as the form team in the division over that period.

 

Given that, I'd say the players we had last season were pretty well suited to the 3-5-2, to be honest with you.

[SiJ]

1 minute ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

We've just won 70 points from 36 games playing 3-5-2. No team in the division has won more points than us since that tactical switch.

 

And that includes a fair few games with one or get recognised senior centre backs in available.

 

Since we added Dean and Storey, we've won 45 from 20, which puts us clear as the form team in the division over that period.

 

Given that, I'd say the players we had last season were pretty well suited to the 3-5-2, to be honest with you.

Far more diplomatic than me. 

 

We don't have any wingbacks. 

 

Unbelievable 

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

3 minutes ago, SiJ said:

We don't have the players to play 3-5-2, but managed to get to 4th and win 85 points. 

 

This with no wingbacks. 

 

Seriously, is there some sort of major issue with hallucinogens within our fanbase? 

 

Valid criticism is fair enough, but when people are just making up sh*t. 

 

'Moore is too worried about the opposition and tinkers too much. Just focus on our own game.'

 

'Neil adapted his team and nullified our strengths. Moore didn't adapt and was tactically outthought.'

 

[Guest Musttryharder]

7 minutes ago, Tewkesbury said:

When, honestly have we concentrated on the opposition?

 

If we had, we'd change it up to counter the press  but we never do.

The only changes made are when DM tinkers around throwing squad players in for a game at a time to fill the gaps till his favourites are back available.

Why do you think he tinkers with the team. If he didnt bother with the oppostion  then Im sure he would have no need to tinker. The last match said it all. He was scared shiitless against Sunderland and we paid the price. He had ALL is so called favourites playing but didnt help, did it.

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

Anyway, rather than just slagging off Darren Moore (I knew including his name in the thread title was a mistake - they're like flies on sh*t once they see that, aren't they?), would anyone like to discuss the OP and which direction they predict Moore taking us this close season?

 

Edited May 22, 2022 by areNOTwhatTHEYseem

[SiJ]

6 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

Anyway, rather than just slagging off Darren Moore (I knew including his name in the thread title was a mistake - they're like flies on sh*t once they see that, aren't they?), would anyone like to discuss the OP and which direction they predict Moore taking us this close season?

 

You'd think 3-5-2. 

 

We looked a far better side once we had got to grips with that system. 

 

Not sure we've got the personnel to play 4-2-3-1 tbh. 

 

Feel like we need a bit more pace all over the side to do that, a bit more mobility in the forward areas. Really like Gregory, but think he's better with a partner. 

[Tewkesbury]

1 minute ago, Musttryharder said:

Why do you think he tinkers with the team. If he didnt bother with the oppostion  then Im sure he would have no need to tinker. The last match said it all. He was scared shiitless against Sunderland and we paid the price. He had ALL is so called favourites playing but didnt help, did it.

That's my point.

 

He had all his favourites playing.

If they're available and fully fit, they play, regardless of opposition. He only usually tinkers with the positions of the ones who aren't available. If he does, which is rare, it's one player for one game then back to normal.

As far as I remember, the only change for purely tactical purposes was Palmer at RWB v Sunderland, all the others have been due to fatigue or injury.