Mr. Chow Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 45 minutes ago, casbahowl said: What’s a Paxo Cube? The man who can’t be named Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athelwulf Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 4 hours ago, Jim said: Whether DC backs or sacks Moore, he’s not going to please the entire fan base. We’re impossible to please anyway. It’s a fan base full of ‘knowalls’ ‘happy clappers’ and argumentative tw@t’s. With a mixture like that the Chairman is on an hiding to nothing whatever he decides to do? We haven’t had stability in the managerial chair since Laws and his longish stint in charge was largely down to the uncertainty in the board room. Once that was sorted he soon lost his job. I think DC needs to give Moore the next 2 seasons at least to build some sort of infrastructure from the bottom up. This rip it up and start again mentality we’ve had for a large part of this century has to end soon or we’ll continue to meander in the footballing wilderness. Surely that’s something we can all agree on but I won’t hold my breath It was not sacking Carlos soon enough which cost us a third shot at promotion to the PL... What you say is true, regarding stability and building some sort of infrastructure from the bottom up. I don't think anyone disagrees with that. The question many of us have, though, is "Why Moore?". Many interviews I heard at other clubs over the course of the season would suggest that, in the opinion of their players and their managers, our squad was arguably the strongest in the league. I disagree with that personally, but our fourth-placed finish wasn't a great achievement based on our playing staff and our budget. At best, we broke even. We never managed to cure ourselves of our defensive problems from set pieces all season long, we over-elaborated in the defensive third, and it was largely injury problems which forced Moore into a stable team selection. And Daz was also lucky to have such a quality squad at his disposal when injuries struck too. Tactically he was outwitted in the two semi-finals, and we were meekly eliminated. Based on what I've seen, and making comparisons with other clubs with far fewer resources, I just don't understand why Moore would be given 2 more seasons. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 49 minutes ago, Athelwulf said: It was not sacking Carlos soon enough which cost us a third shot at promotion to the PL... What you say is true, regarding stability and building some sort of infrastructure from the bottom up. I don't think anyone disagrees with that. The question many of us have, though, is "Why Moore?". Many interviews I heard at other clubs over the course of the season would suggest that, in the opinion of their players and their managers, our squad was arguably the strongest in the league. I disagree with that personally, but our fourth-placed finish wasn't a great achievement based on our playing staff and our budget. At best, we broke even. We never managed to cure ourselves of our defensive problems from set pieces all season long, we over-elaborated in the defensive third, and it was largely injury problems which forced Moore into a stable team selection. And Daz was also lucky to have such a quality squad at his disposal when injuries struck too. Tactically he was outwitted in the two semi-finals, and we were meekly eliminated. Based on what I've seen, and making comparisons with other clubs with far fewer resources, I just don't understand why Moore would be given 2 more seasons. Personality and style of play would be 2 reasons to start with. There is a togetherness at S6 that hasn’t been there since the aforementioned Carlos day’s and a common denominator of this is the attractive style of play that we haven’t seen since Carlos’ first season. Yes I’m not blind that there wasn’t mistakes made but he was never going to rectify all the problems we had and there were a lot of them within 12 months. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboy66 Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 16 minutes ago, Jim said: but he was never going to rectify all the problems we had In one season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victorturner Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 16 minutes ago, Jim said: Personality and style of play would be 2 reasons to start with. There is a togetherness at S6 that hasn’t been there since the aforementioned Carlos day’s and a common denominator of this is the attractive style of play that we haven’t seen since Carlos’ first season. Yes I’m not blind that there wasn’t mistakes made but he was never going to rectify all the problems we had and there were a lot of them within 12 months. You have to weigh the advantages and disadvantages. We have a decent guy in charge who is good at developing team spirit and togetherness, and rehabilitating footballers of quality who have lost their way. He also has developed an attacking attractive type of play at home , (although mainly against weakish teams), but struggles to put on confident attacking performances away and often concedes late goals to crosses. These are mainly very good points. But we finish up the biggest match of the season with an attacking wide player with no defensive abilities at rwb (N M-L), and a rwb at centre back (Palmer), and it costs us the losing goal because of his substitutions. DM likes to experiment with players out of position and often chops and changes the team, and sometimes the system, because of anxiety about the opposition. These are not good points! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 1 minute ago, victorturner said: You have to weigh the advantages and disadvantages. We have a decent guy in charge who is good at developing team spirit and togetherness, and rehabilitating footballers of quality who have lost their way. He also has developed an attacking attractive type of play at home , (although mainly against weakish teams), but struggles to put on confident attacking performances away and often concedes late goals to crosses. These are mainly very good points. But we finish up the biggest match of the season with an attacking wide player with no defensive abilities at rwb (N M-L), and a rwb at centre back (Palmer), and it costs us the losing goal because of his substitutions. DM likes to experiment with players out of position and often chops and changes the team, and sometimes the system, because of anxiety about the opposition. These are not good points! Like I said it takes time. He was never going to sort everything out in 12 months. If he’s still making the same mistakes next season then your argument for change might be stronger than it is at the moment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athelwulf Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 44 minutes ago, Jim said: Personality and style of play would be 2 reasons to start with. There is a togetherness at S6 that hasn’t been there since the aforementioned Carlos day’s and a common denominator of this is the attractive style of play that we haven’t seen since Carlos’ first season. Yes I’m not blind that there wasn’t mistakes made but he was never going to rectify all the problems we had and there were a lot of them within 12 months. I'd also add to the list that his recruitment has been very good, and as a person he's well liked by the fans too. And if a manager can cope with Channers, then you're half way there anyway. I don't dispute that he ticks many boxes, and I was in favour of his appointment. My problem is that so many teams rely on set pieces at this level that you have to be able to defend against them. And next season everybody will have Sunderland's approach when playing us, save the likes of MK Dons. Lincoln stopped Bannan, for instance, and we were very poor. I think we need to get someone in to deal with the defending, at least. Rotherham's promotion was based on solid defending, and I think they'd only conceded 18 in the league when they came here in the early spring. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 Our position in the league structure since DC arrived 15/16 26th 16/17 24th 17/18 35th 18/19 32nd 19/20 36th 20/21 44th 21/22 48th if you graphed our time under DC you would see a gradual decline getting worse each season, will we buck the trend or will the decline further under DC leadership. i suspect this close season will be every more important that last summer for how quick things that are needed are implemented and what is the over riding plan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted May 20, 2022 Author Share Posted May 20, 2022 13 minutes ago, room0035 said: Our position in the league structure since DC arrived 15/16 26th 16/17 24th 17/18 35th 18/19 32nd 19/20 36th 20/21 44th 21/22 48th Interesting stats I wonder how many of those who have been calling for Darren Moore to leave our club due to a perceived failure will also be calling for the same for Chansiri and for him to go too? Tenner says none of them Tenner says instead they'll have a pop at this post Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 Just now, @owlstalk said: Interesting stats I wonder how many of those who have been calling for Darren Moore to leave our club due to a perceived failure will also be calling for the same for Chansiri and for him to go too? Tenner says none of them Tenner says instead they'll have a pop at this post Darren Moore has had is arm and legs tied behind his back like every other manager we had except Carlos. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted May 20, 2022 Author Share Posted May 20, 2022 Personally I think Chansiri has done everything expected of him this season just gone and done well Stats however show a steady decline under his ownership sadly. 1 Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobness Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 2 hours ago, Athelwulf said: It was not sacking Carlos soon enough which cost us a third shot at promotion to the PL... Yes, Carlos should've been sacked after Huddersfield. But after everything you now know about Chansiri, you think he would've hired a suitable replacement? No chance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted May 20, 2022 Author Share Posted May 20, 2022 1 minute ago, bobness said: Yes, Carlos should've been sacked after Huddersfield. But after everything you now know about Chansiri, you think he would've hired a suitable replacement? No chance. Fans would have been apoplectic with rage if we'd fired Carlos after Huddersfield Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jack the Hat Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 12 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: Interesting stats I wonder how many of those who have been calling for Darren Moore to leave our club due to a perceived failure will also be calling for the same for Chansiri and for him to go too? Tenner says none of them Tenner says instead they'll have a pop at this post I'm not sure what you are saying. Are you saying all the people who don't rate Moore as a Manager do rate Chansiri as a chairman, or have I read it wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobness Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 1 minute ago, @owlstalk said: Fans would have been apoplectic with rage if we'd fired Carlos after Huddersfield Leadership involves making difficult decisions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted May 20, 2022 Author Share Posted May 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, bobness said: Leadership involves making difficult decisions Indeed Sometimes you have to starve your citizens to death to be proclaimed a hero by your followers 1 Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobness Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 Just now, @owlstalk said: Indeed Sometimes you have to starve your citizens to death to be proclaimed a hero by your followers This explains the pie shortage. At least DC is learning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athelwulf Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 14 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: Interesting stats I wonder how many of those who have been calling for Darren Moore to leave our club due to a perceived failure will also be calling for the same for Chansiri and for him to go too? Tenner says none of them Tenner says instead they'll have a pop at this post There are basically four ways to get to the PL. (a) parachute cash, like Hull (b) "sustainability", which takes years to build, like Brentford. (c) a good manager, like Tufty or Bielsa (d) chuck money at it and gamble, like us, but you finish worse off if you fail Channers only had the options (c) and (d) open to him, and we're not lucky enough to get a Tufty, nor have we the pedigree/name to get a Bielsa. We knew it was sh*t or bust when we chose (d), which is why I and others wanted Carlos out after 'Udders. We only had a limited time frame to seal promotion in, and we blew the third season by keeping him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tewkesbury Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 1 hour ago, room0035 said: Our position in the league structure since DC arrived 15/16 26th 16/17 24th 17/18 35th 18/19 32nd 19/20 36th 20/21 44th 21/22 48th if you graphed our time under DC you would see a gradual decline getting worse each season, will we buck the trend or will the decline further under DC leadership. i suspect this close season will be every more important that last summer for how quick things that are needed are implemented and what is the over riding plan. You're measuring him against himself. Here's the graph and trendline since we were relegated from the Prem. He's doing no worse than those before him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victorturner Posted May 20, 2022 Share Posted May 20, 2022 22 hours ago, fpowl said: Good, that sounds very healthy money thing we know about chansiri is he hacks his managers and it seems we have a more diligent way in spending money maybe because it’s tighter maybe because he’s learned or maybe it’s because we have a better structure and be more settled, or a combination of them all either way I want to see a longer term vision this irrational spending over paying on poor quality and chopping and changing managers isn’t good hopefully this sounds like we can build something long term the end of the season we was playing attractive football ice nothing against with how Moore wants us to play We’ve turned the squad over which we probably need to do the other half this season but the signs are they’re on and off for a decent pairing in them too it certainly looks more positive than it did this time last year Mr Chansiri has not always backed his managers. I recall Carlos saying that we would not be capturing any £10M players and I thought at the time we were not going to get in real quality, yet ultimately we proceeded to spend a lot more than £10M over the following years on average players who came in on low fees but high wages. Once CC had his team functioning well, with Forestieri starring, recruitment was not directed properly. Spectacularly we hit the financial skids and we were unable to back Jos and when he arrived he was given only Pelupessy, Monk was not backed, Bruce wasn't and neither was Pulis . January 2021 saw virtually nobody coming in when we were trying to avoid relegation. Neil Thompson was a powerless caretaker during that January. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now