Is the Championship all that ?

[HootHoot]

6 hours ago, Bannofan said:

I certainly don't want us in the cess pit that is the Premier League.

 

I saw Wolves suggested  line up the other day . No British players and 6 Portuguese, with a Portuguese manager, coaching staff and owner.

 

I think if you are 40 year old + Wolves fan, you would be struggling to say that they are still ' your team'.  I would imagine none of those players would care about the history of the club. 

 

I would hate that to be us to be honest, that complete loss of identity. I struggled to identify with SWFC as a fan when we had the likes of Chris Waddle and Des Walker, and had a pool of European players to come in whenever we got an injury..Alexandersson, Ingesson, De Gruyse, Blondeau , De Bilde etc..

 

Not been to a game for a few seasons, but my happiest times as a fan have been when we were in this league previously, with the likes of Steve Haslam lining up for us. We were rubbish, but it was a hard working, honest rubbish. My first taste of Wednesday was in 1977/78 when we were in this league; I still thought we were brilliant. 

 

Anyway, what's my point? yeah - be careful what you wish for I guess.' Success' on the pitch doesn't automatically mean contentment and enjoyment as a fan. 

 

 

 

 

Jesus Christ, I hope this post is satire or something. 

 

If not, well...

[HootHoot]

5 hours ago, Kevin Pressmans Pen said:

I think we should be targeting premier league by 2025/26 season or 2027/28 season at the latest. 
 

There’s no reason it couldn’t be done in 3-5 years if the chairman invests wisely and we hired the right manager.

 

The guy who was Bielsa’s assistant at Huddersfield has them in the top 6, Cooper has made a real difference to Forest and they will probably win the play offs. Or a manager like Wilder did it in 3 seasons league 1 to 9th in the Prem at Utd.

 

The standard in the Championship isn’t all that, it’s weaker than those seasons where we were up there. I reckon Norwich, Watford, WBA are due some stagnation rather than always bouncing back and the rest are all very much hit and miss and no different to us before Monk and Chansiri messed us up 

Whilst I'd love for you to be right on that (who wouldn't?) I just can't personally see it. 

 

We've been out of the top flight for over 20 years. I'm sure most clubs use the "with the right chairman and manager" strategy but how many clubs fall short? 

 

Norwich and Watford as usual will stomp the championship next season and then get relegated the year after again. Top 2 in the championship is usually one of the relegated sides and on some occasions a lucky championship side like our neighbours across the city. 

 

Best bet for a 'normal' team is through the playoffs and even then only 1 of 4 can go through. 

 

Maybe with new ownership one day we might be able to compete financially again with the heavy hitters in the championship but as things stand, we have a lot of work to do behind the scenes to get us operating properly. We've gotta stop sinking money before we can talk of the promised land and I think that'll take longer than 5 years unfortunately. 

[HIGHERSTATE]

13 minutes ago, HootHoot said:

Whilst I'd love for you to be right on that (who wouldn't?) I just can't personally see it. 

 

We've been out of the top flight for over 20 years. I'm sure most clubs use the "with the right chairman and manager" strategy but how many clubs fall short? 

 

Norwich and Watford as usual will stomp the championship next season and then get relegated the year after again. Top 2 in the championship is usually one of the relegated sides and on some occasions a lucky championship side like our neighbours across the city. 

 

Best bet for a 'normal' team is through the playoffs and even then only 1 of 4 can go through. 

 

Maybe with new ownership one day we might be able to compete financially again with the heavy hitters in the championship but as things stand, we have a lot of work to do behind the scenes to get us operating properly. We've gotta stop sinking money before we can talk of the promised land and I think that'll take longer than 5 years unfortunately. 

I remember saying when Chansiri arrived, all I wanted for us is to compete towards the top of the table.

 

Look at how that turned out.

 

We did so well under Gray.

 

We haven't been a stable football club since the mid-90's.

[83owl]

4 hours ago, Bannofan said:

 

100% not what I said, the ' foreigners' were technically better players than ' our own' , which is why we went with that market. 

 

However, how nice is it see players come through the ranks and break into the first team rather than us just go out and spend, spend , spend? 

 

 

The two players that have come through the ranks in Dawson and palmer get more stick than anyone.

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, HootHoot said:

Whilst I'd love for you to be right on that (who wouldn't?) I just can't personally see it. 

 

We've been out of the top flight for over 20 years. I'm sure most clubs use the "with the right chairman and manager" strategy but how many clubs fall short? 

 

Norwich and Watford as usual will stomp the championship next season and then get relegated the year after again. Top 2 in the championship is usually one of the relegated sides and on some occasions a lucky championship side like our neighbours across the city. 

 

Best bet for a 'normal' team is through the playoffs and even then only 1 of 4 can go through. 

 

Maybe with new ownership one day we might be able to compete financially again with the heavy hitters in the championship but as things stand, we have a lot of work to do behind the scenes to get us operating properly. We've gotta stop sinking money before we can talk of the promised land and I think that'll take longer than 5 years unfortunately. 

I’m not sure Norwich and Watford will this time, there’s only so many times you can keep bouncing back from relegation it takes its toll, and Watford have appointed a league 2 manager with minimal experience.

 

A lot of the teams who’ve been in the Prem recently have had periods where they wouldn’t have imagined it was possible. Wolves, Sheff Utd, Leeds, Brighton would have all thought at some point they wouldn’t get up there but did and it happens quickly.

 

I know we’re miles off but it can change. I don’t have confidence in either the chairman (made a mess of it last time, didn’t put money in when we were close to relegated, would question where the funding for this season came from) or manager (tactically inept, not a winner and bottles big games, plays players out of position) but if we had the right ones I think it could be done.

[Tewkesbury]

Every team should aim to get promoted to the EPL.

 

 

Just so you can have your own font for the names and numbets instead of those generic mind ones with the stupid squiggle.

[Otley Owl]

Got to page 2 so far, a brilliant opening question and loads of great replies, finding myself agreeing with comments on both sides of the argument - although there's more than 2 sides, which restores my faith in footy a bit. 

 

For me, I'd be happy with the Norwich situation for now. Promotions, relegations, a bit of excitement. The Premier League isn't for me, well not in the way a team such as Southampton does it, mid table after mid table. 

 

I'd much prefer to be in the Championship rather than League 1, particularly if there were teams like Sunderland, Forest Leeds, Sheff Utd etc.

 

 

What I really want is for the Premier League to break away. Maybe let them play in our FA Cup. It's too far gone for any other team to challenge now. The money is ridiculous, and sick.

 

Set up a new Division 1, no promotion or relegation to the league above, and start fighting it out for bragging rights for the title. Set a wage cap of 20 grand a week. 

 

[HootHoot]

4 minutes ago, Otley Owl said:

Got to page 2 so far, a brilliant opening question and loads of great replies, finding myself agreeing with comments on both sides of the argument - although there's more than 2 sides, which restores my faith in footy a bit. 

 

For me, I'd be happy with the Norwich situation for now. Promotions, relegations, a bit of excitement. The Premier League isn't for me, well not in the way a team such as Southampton does it, mid table after mid table. 

 

I'd much prefer to be in the Championship rather than League 1, particularly if there were teams like Sunderland, Forest Leeds, Sheff Utd etc.

 

 

What I really want is for the Premier League to break away. Maybe let them play in our FA Cup. It's too far gone for any other team to challenge now. The money is ridiculous, and sick.

 

Set up a new Division 1, no promotion or relegation to the league above, and start fighting it out for bragging rights for the title. Set a wage cap of 20 grand a week. 

 

Would never happen. EFL clubs want access to the riches that the PL provides. 

 

You wouldn't get that if the PL broke away from the EFL.

[HootHoot]

1 hour ago, Kevin Pressmans Pen said:

I’m not sure Norwich and Watford will this time, there’s only so many times you can keep bouncing back from relegation it takes its toll, and Watford have appointed a league 2 manager with minimal experience.

 

A lot of the teams who’ve been in the Prem recently have had periods where they wouldn’t have imagined it was possible. Wolves, Sheff Utd, Leeds, Brighton would have all thought at some point they wouldn’t get up there but did and it happens quickly.

 

I know we’re miles off but it can change. I don’t have confidence in either the chairman (made a mess of it last time, didn’t put money in when we were close to relegated, would question where the funding for this season came from) or manager (tactically inept, not a winner and bottles big games, plays players out of position) but if we had the right ones I think it could be done.

I think they will. Their entire business model is set on promotion and relegation. Watford might struggle but they've identified Rob Edwards as up and coming and to be fair, he did a great job with FGR. 

 

If it works out, it's a shrewd move for them. 

 

Brighton is a good example, but United were in L1 for 6 years. Wolves had a rough patch but to me I've always seen them in the prem, especially under McCarthy. 

 

We've also got to consider that football is in a bit of a financial mess at the moment with the whole covid business. A lot can happen in a few years as we've found out ourselves. I don't think many clubs will find themselves able to splash the cash for a fair few years. Relegated prem clubs already hold a £20m buffer over them per season, not sure how the rest of the league is supposed to compete with that. 

 

I think 10 years minimum and that's with a solid strategy. As of yet, we've failed to devise such a strategy other than throwing money at it and hoping it pays off.

[Otley Owl]

2 minutes ago, HootHoot said:

Would never happen. EFL clubs want access to the riches that the PL provides. 

 

You wouldn't get that if the PL broke away from the EFL.

Only because they have no choice, due to the way money has taken the game since the Sky money started pouring in. 

 

Personally, I was cheering on the European breakaway when they went for it - if clubs wanted to continue to sell their soul, let them eff off and do it. It would have at least allowed for a bit of a reset among the teams left. Realistically, I get that they would all just chase it in exactly the same way anyway, and we'd be back where we started. 

 

The difference in money between the top 4/5/6 has made the rest of it all a bit pointless. 

 

Personally, and I know it will never happen, but I'd like the Championship to just start again, away from the Premier League. Call it Division 1.  Plenty of very decent sides in there, and some very big clubs. Set a wage budget limit, and off we go. 

[HootHoot]

2 minutes ago, Otley Owl said:

Only because they have no choice, due to the way money has taken the game since the Sky money started pouring in. 

 

Personally, I was cheering on the European breakaway when they went for it - if clubs wanted to continue to sell their soul, let them eff off and do it. It would have at least allowed for a bit of a reset among the teams left. Realistically, I get that they would all just chase it in exactly the same way anyway, and we'd be back where we started. 

 

The difference in money between the top 4/5/6 has made the rest of it all a bit pointless. 

 

Personally, and I know it will never happen, but I'd like the Championship to just start again, away from the Premier League. Call it Division 1.  Plenty of very decent sides in there, and some very big clubs. Set a wage budget limit, and off we go. 

The thing is, players want to play at the highest level possible. The minute the EFL imposes a wage cap, any decent player your team has will jump ship when a prem team comes in and offers them more than the EFL cap will allow. 

 

Then you have the issue of well, who makes up the PL table. Is it fair on the relegated clubs that they won't have an option to return the following season? Is it fair on the promoted clubs that they might not be able to go up?

 

Then you've got the idea of competition. With the PL, there are 6 spots to aim for in the championship. With your idea, the only spot worth anything is 1st. Every season 23 clubs in the championship won't win anything. I just don't see the point of that. What are you actually playing for? 

 

I think whilst some tweaks are needed, the current model is fine. There's a purpose and the pyramid exists for this reason. No need to go tampering with that and lessening the quality of the EFL and what it has to offer. 

[Rhubarb n Custard]

Prem is a waste of time for most champ teams and that's the issue.

The Prem is boring only 2 maybe 3 teams have any real chance of winning the title.

For me the Champ is the most interesting league as the mix is always fresh with new teams coming down and going up.

Like you I'm lucky enough to have seen our best days but now quite happy to see us challenge at the top end of the champ.

For now we need to get out of LG1.

[Sova]

20 minutes ago, Otley Owl said:

The Premier League isn't for me, well not in the way a team such as Southampton does it, mid table after mid table.

 

Seriously? I would give my right arm for us to be mid- (even lower-mid this season) table like Southampton, drawing with both Manchester clubs twice, drawing with and beating Spurs, beating Arsenal, West Ham and Everton. In the past decade, they've beaten all the big teams, had 4 top 10 finishes (including finishing as high as 6th), a couple of FA Cup semifinals and a League Cup final, as well as two European campaigns that, while not terrible successful, did include a win over Inter Milan. I mean, just compare these two seasons - 6th place finishes for both teams, 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015–16_Southampton_F.C._season

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015–16_Sheffield_Wednesday_F.C._season

 

We had a great season. We had some great wins. We beat Arsenal. But we didn't beat both Manchester teams, Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs as well.

[quinnssweetshop]

We currently lie bottom of the 3rd Division. Last season means nothing now. Except we now ply our trade with clubs who were recently non league. 

 

In massive debt

Don't own the ground

Still owe fans

 

 

 

Let's all have a reality check

Edited May 17, 2022 by quinnssweetshop

[ruscol85]

On 15/05/2022 at 21:06, parajack said:

Yeah been a real ball,relegated last season,struggled all season to get into a play off place, got binned out of the play off semi, & now face the indignity of watching WW battle for a return to the Championship....

While we sit here drinking our cocoa & eating cheese sandwhich's

Spot on! This season IMO is a bigger failure than last year

[GermanBird]

51 minutes ago, quinnssweetshop said:

In massive debt

Don't own the ground

Still owe fans

 

 

I fully agree with you from the owner's point of view.

 

As a supporter I want to get promoted for the fun of it.

For a supporter it will become more expensive, the more successful we are.

 

[Guest hirstysfags]

18 hours ago, parajack said:

Why not play in the Northern League than? Or our local pub league? Think of the skill on offer in the PL the players,the overall experience and we have beatLiverpool City, Man Utd when we a PL Club why assume we have to be in L1 to enjoy a game?

What's the likelihood of us ever beating Liverpool again in any competition? 

[parajack]

22 minutes ago, hirstysfags said:

What's the likelihood of us ever beating Liverpool again in any competition? 

On the day same as any other team,what i NEVER want to see again,is the site of our star striker  running around in his own half in an ultra defensive performance when we played Chelsea,whilst another lower League team with a different outlook humbled them...

Thousands of our fans paid good money to travel and see that debacle,& ime sorry to say your post sums up a lot of whats wrong with our fan base.

 

[83owl]

10 hours ago, Otley Owl said:

Got to page 2 so far, a brilliant opening question and loads of great replies, finding myself agreeing with comments on both sides of the argument - although there's more than 2 sides, which restores my faith in footy a bit. 

 

For me, I'd be happy with the Norwich situation for now. Promotions, relegations, a bit of excitement. The Premier League isn't for me, well not in the way a team such as Southampton does it, mid table after mid table. 

 

I'd much prefer to be in the Championship rather than League 1, particularly if there were teams like Sunderland, Forest Leeds, Sheff Utd etc.

 

 

What I really want is for the Premier League to break away. Maybe let them play in our FA Cup. It's too far gone for any other team to challenge now. The money is ridiculous, and sick.

 

Set up a new Division 1, no promotion or relegation to the league above, and start fighting it out for bragging rights for the title. Set a wage cap of 20 grand a week. 

 

Yeah would be crap watching JWP banging free kicks in against top teams every few weeks. Much more exciting watching Callum Patterson stumbling around like he’s just been in a lock in for the last 10 hours.

[Manwë]

I've been following this with diligence, and believe that we as fans want two clear distinct things:

 

a) we want to win games

b) we don't want promotion to the despicable Championship.

 

I think this is where Chansiri, for all his sins, actually may be taking a longer more professional view than the barbaric and antiquated system of a League Table.

 

Under the reckless EPL rules (and EFL too, they always follow what the EPL do!), the team who wins gets three points and those with the most points are higher up the table.  Why should this be the case, it's 2022.  Why a table?  What relevance to  a work desk or romantic meal does comparing footballing "success" between teams come in?

 

That's why we should apply to do one of two things:

 

1) seek a "variable point for a win", just for us (and other like minded fun-seekers). 

2) seek to have a points deduction year on year at the end of the season.

 

Option 1 is a no-go because the EFL dinosaurs are still stuck in the 1800s, and treat any reasonable Wednesday request with utter disdain .   The formula for working out points per win may be complex, but an Excel spreadsheet is all that's needed.  To stay up Wednesday needed 41 points.   

 

Fag packet maths suggest a 1.4points per win and 0.6 points per draw gets us those 41 points, plus a real excitement about a relegation battle (spoiler alert, we stay up, much to the disgust of the EFL who are desperate to send us down).  Or the possibility of a promotion battle would mean a 2.3 points per win, and 1.5 points per draw.  A very respectable 75-ish points (spoiler, this isn't enough to get promotion).

 

Option 2 is where Chansiri comes in.  And I believe he understands the true zeitgeist out there more than he's letting on, and for that he commands respect.