Darren in or out?

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

1 minute ago, parajack said:

TBF DM himself i believe said thats what he does ie set up to combat the opponents 'strenth's'

 

Any chance you can find the quote?

 

All managers take account of the opposition and plan accordingly: that's not a bad thing, it's sensible management.

 

The issue comes when managers analyse the opposition and change their entire gameplan solely to combat their strengths, rather than to mitigate these whilst also looking to exploit their weaknesses.

 

I think we've struck the right balance for the most part this season, and I certainly can't think of many games where we adapted our entire style to suit out opponents. 

 

I mean, one of the things Moore seems to get criticised for on here is not being adaptable enough.

[parajack]

20 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

 

If Moore is staying (And he absolutely IS) wouldn't we be better off as a club if his weird haters just let him have a season without moaning about him being our manager?

It's not Moore holding this club back - it's all those on the Moore Hate Bandwagon 

Mate its YOUR site.....how do you want your forum to operate?.....an echo chamber of the same/similar opinion? OR a mixture of views and opinion and debate around why?..

YES there are a few extreme views expressed sometimes usually typified by a one line post,a few exclamation marks and very little else,however the majority of posts i see are people who just see our season in different lights and have been unable to convince those of a different view to their way of thinking....

I am one of them......Next season will give us the answers to our differences.....Why stigmatise a group of fellow Wednesday fans?....

I recall when GM was manager & you and I were virtually the only two on the forum that still thought he was the right man to manage us,....sometimes you find yourself in a minority....All that proves is lots of people can shout louder than two....

your in friendship WAWAW

[GermanBird]

I guess we have enough manager in/out posts to justify a separate forum.

It might be far more enjoyable for all, if the matchday and the manager-out forum would be separted

Do you agree?

[ashley8]

21 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

 

If Moore is staying (And he absolutely IS) wouldn't we be better off as a club if his weird haters just let him have a season without moaning about him being our manager?

It's not Moore holding this club back - it's all those on the Moore Hate Bandwagon 

This forum would be better if you kept your opinions out of it to be honest. I thought we got warnings for calling other members names..... 

You know you like to cause controversy on here at times. So slagging people off for having a strong opinion.... 

We finished 5 points off automatic.... how many mistakes, draws and losses that could have been EASILY  avoided... I don't think it's that radical to think his mistakes cost us.

[BridportOwl]

1 minute ago, ashley8 said:

This forum would be better if you kept your opinions out of it to be honest. I thought we got warnings for calling other members names..... 

You know you like to cause controversy on here at times. So slagging people off for having a strong opinion.... 

We finished 5 points off automatic.... how many mistakes, draws and losses that could have been EASILY  avoided... I don't think it's that radical to think his mistakes cost us.

 

Occasional individual player errors, not mistakes from Moore in my opinion. 

 

From what I have seen on here:

A players gets injured = Moore's fault.

Keeper makes a howler = Moore's fault.

Bad pass = Moore's fault.

 

Look at some of the posts on here after Bannan went down injured against Portsmouth. You would have thought Moore had run onto the pitch and kicked him the way some people reacted.

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

3 minutes ago, ashley8 said:

This forum would be better if you kept your opinions out of it to be honest. I thought we got warnings for calling other members names..... 

You know you like to cause controversy on here at times. So slagging people off for having a strong opinion.... 

We finished 5 points off automatic.... how many mistakes, draws and losses that could have been EASILY  avoided... I don't think it's that radical to think his mistakes cost us.

 

But the other side of that coin is that the things Moore got right helped to earn us 85 points, and as you say, finish 5 points off automatic promotion.

 

We can point to managerial decisions, individual player errors, or plain old bad luck - both in terms of officials, injuries, and covid, as all contributing to the points we dropped last season.

 

With such fine margins involved, wouldn't we be better allowing the man who brought us this far to have a go at seeing the project through rather than starting again from scratch next season?

[DaveClark]

21 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

 

If Moore is staying (And he absolutely IS) wouldn't we be better off as a club if his weird haters just let him have a season without moaning about him being our manager?

It's not Moore holding this club back - it's all those on the Moore Hate Bandwagon 

 

Everyone wants to get behind a manager, we all want continuity.   It makes sense.

 

What hasn't made sense at times are some of the decisions - substitutions that have cost us games.   Playing people out of position.   Refusing to play certain people until there was no choice, and then - like Byers, they come to life and prove the manager wrong.

 

The formation Moore has wanted has been felt wanting at times in the first half of the season, and sadly I fear he will revert to that when he gets newer players in.

People get behind Moore saying he has the backing of the players, and those fans who berate him do so only because of a speech impediment.   That is total rubbish.   People berate Moore because he lacks a considered second option.   When things aren't going our way, he struggles to counter it - Moore is not a tactician, he studies other's methods and copies them.

 

We all want Moore to succeed, however he probably does not have the mentality or ability to do so.

 

Nothing unique has ever come out of his mouth.   Nothing.   He copies others.

 

 

[ashley8]

22 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

But the other side of that coin is that the things Moore got right helped to earn us 85 points, and as you say, finish 5 points off automatic promotion.

 

We can point to managerial decisions, individual player errors, or plain old bad luck - both in terms of officials, injuries, and covid, as all contributing to the points we dropped last season.

 

With such fine margins involved, wouldn't we be better allowing the man who brought us this far to have a go at seeing the project through rather than starting again from scratch next season?

Firstly we have to see who the players will be... he took half a season to stop constantly changing ghe team which allowed them to gel. So if it's several new faces then it will be like starting again. 

It's true there are other reasons such as ridiculously bad refs, individual errors injuries. All teams have those too... how many had a manager who made going worse for his team. That's my point. Plus.... we did get into the playoffs but we were out muscled and didn't go for it in either game enough.  If we actually focused on us we would give hhem something to worry about. Instead they were strong and well organised and we just didn't turn up. His job is not to be on the pitch but many times they looked clueless and lacking fight. He needs to help create that. So it's not a building exercise it's a go again repeat.

[parajack]

1 hour ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

Any chance you can find the quote?

 

All managers take account of the opposition and plan accordingly: that's not a bad thing, it's sensible management.

 

The issue comes when managers analyse the opposition and change their entire gameplan solely to combat their strengths, rather than to mitigate these whilst also looking to exploit their weaknesses.

 

I think we've struck the right balance for the most part this season, and I certainly can't think of many games where we adapted our entire style to suit out opponents. 

 

I mean, one of the things Moore seems to get criticised for on here is not being adaptable enough.

I will look but it may have been a post or pre match interview thing...examinerlive.co.uk/sport/football/news/moore-gibson-sheffield-wednesday-fans-23500271  Heres the examiner asking him the same Q....so its been raised somewhere for them to look to a follow up in my view

[parajack]

1 hour ago, GermanBird said:

I guess we have enough manager in/out posts to justify a separate forum.

It might be far more enjoyable for all, if the matchday and the manager-out forum would be separted

Do you agree?

NO...we need to see the bigger picture and not marginalise debate,even if at times it can become tiresome...ALL have a choice not to read or join in a thread or topic..

[ashley8]

35 minutes ago, BridportOwl said:

 

Occasional individual player errors, not mistakes from Moore in my opinion. 

 

From what I have seen on here:

A players gets injured = Moore's fault.

Keeper makes a howler = Moore's fault.

Bad pass = Moore's fault.

 

Look at some of the posts on here after Bannan went down injured against Portsmouth. You would have thought Moore had run onto the pitch and kicked him the way some people reacted.

Yeah that's it because non of those things he's been blamed for... but short memories and a capacity to just wait and waste your money while someone who doesn't understand football keeps picking the wrong manager.... remind me what has happened in the last what is it 7 years all those mistakes. And what you think if any of those manager were given more time.... where are they now and WHY obviously other owners know not to pick them for their job. IF Moore just tighted the defence. Added more organisation and quit the constant changes when the team actually  won. We would probably be up now. You can't do anything about the things you sarcastically put above but a decent manager should be able to do the basics. He's probably a lovely bloke but I'm sick of being still all these years so far away from the premiership still wasting time and money on bad choices.

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

5 minutes ago, ashley8 said:

Firstly we have to see who the players will be... he took half a season to stop constantly changing ghe team which allowed them to gel. So if it's several new faces then it will be like starting again. 

It's true there are other reasons such as ridiculously bad refs, individual errors injuries. All teams have those too... how many had a manager who made going worse for his team. That's my point. Plus.... we did get into the playoffs but we were out muscled and didn't go for it in either game enough.  If we actually focused on us we would give hhem something to worry about. Instead they were strong and well organised and we just didn't turn up. His job is not to be on the pitch but many times they looked clueless and lacking fight. He needs to help create that. So it's not a building exercise it's a go again repeat.

 

I genuinely don't know where to start with all that, except to say that it doesn't tally with my experience of the season much, at all.

 

All teams have injuries, yes. But how many had all but one of their senior centre-backs, or for some games, all of them, out injured?  Our form since we signed Storey and Dean is better than two points per game, so you'd have to think those 5 points we fell short of automatic promotion may well have been within our grasp were it not for that horrendous injury crisis during the autumn months.

 

I honestly haven't seen us 'looking clueless or lacking fight' very often this season, especially since we added some fit centre-backs to the squad. I can't imagine any team who played that way 'many times' in a season would amass 85 points, quite frankly.

[BridportOwl]

2 minutes ago, ashley8 said:

Yeah that's it because non of those things he's been blamed for... but short memories and a capacity to just wait and waste your money while someone who doesn't understand football keeps picking the wrong manager.... remind me what has happened in the last what is it 7 years all those mistakes. And what you think if any of those manager were given more time.... where are they now and WHY obviously other owners know not to pick them for their job. IF Moore just tighted the defence. Added more organisation and quit the constant changes when the team actually  won. We would probably be up now. You can't do anything about the things you sarcastically put above but a decent manager should be able to do the basics. He's probably a lovely bloke but I'm sick of being still all these years so far away from the premiership still wasting time and money on bad choices.

 

Go back and look at the Portsmouth match thread. He was being blamed for Bannon's injury.

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

13 minutes ago, parajack said:

I will look but it may have been a post or pre match interview thing...examinerlive.co.uk/sport/football/news/moore-gibson-sheffield-wednesday-fans-23500271  Heres the examiner asking him the same Q....so its been raised somewhere for them to look to a follow up in my view

 

Cheers.

 

That seems to tally with what I was saying then, really.

 

One aspect which gets overlooked by some posters who want us to play the same team three times per week is addressed there, too:

 

In terms of tinkering towards the end of the season, maybe the team will settle down more. Why is that? Because of the volume of games. Over the next three or four weeks, we have got one game weeks. We have not got the volume of where you are playing Saturday, Tuesday and Saturday and it being consistent over the next four or five weeks.

 

I will say to all the fans that it is physically impossible for the players to do it because of the demands of the game. That is from a sports science and medical research background. Physically you can't do it.

 

You have got to manage them because what happens is players get overloaded and break down. You have got to manage the squad. It is not just me. All manager's are doing it where they possibly can.

Edited May 15, 2022 by areNOTwhatTHEYseem

[parajack]

19 hours ago, scram said:

It's almost like we have league 1 players who do league 1 things, isn't it?

NO it isnt it was our first season in L1 having just been relegated ONLY by an EFL sanction(as bad as we were) we were an established Championship side and retained 7 Championship players to start the season,on Championship level contracts.

They came in the main(if not entirely) from other Championship Clubs ...we than later brought in Gregory,Dean,and Storey,ALL from Championship Clubs....BPF from Burnely....

We had CHAMPIONSHIP Players playing in L1.......(which of course made them at the time 'L1' players...)..but all regulars from playing in a League higher,against a higher level of opposition.

[parajack]

10 hours ago, Tewkesbury said:

See, I don't believe that we had negative tactics for the playoffs.

 

AN specifically said numerous times that he didn't put out his best side, he put one out to beat us. The Sunderland forums were full of 'why pick him, he's not a proper footballer'. Even before the second game, the interviewers were asking why players had been left out, his response? 'From studying Wednesday, these are still the players who will counter them best'

 

He traded his footballers for workers and nullified us completely,and we had no answers.

Hence the long balls and the introduction of Windass and NML to try and open it up.

 

We went for skill, they went for work.

 

Hard work beats skill every time.

Where 'skill' is lazy it deffo does

[Bedford Owl]

In, it’s the first season I’ve enjoyed the football for a while. Definite progress on the pitch. 

[parajack]

7 hours ago, daveyboy66 said:

Of course it does Pep 

You Des Lynham than?

[Inspector Lestrade]

30 minutes ago, DaveClark said:

 

Everyone wants to get behind a manager, we all want continuity.   It makes sense.

 

What hasn't made sense at times are some of the decisions - substitutions that have cost us games.   Playing people out of position.   Refusing to play certain people until there was no choice, and then - like Byers, they come to life and prove the manager wrong.

 

The formation Moore has wanted has been felt wanting at times in the first half of the season, and sadly I fear he will revert to that when he gets newer players in.

People get behind Moore saying he has the backing of the players, and those fans who berate him do so only because of a speech impediment.   That is total rubbish.   People berate Moore because he lacks a considered second option.   When things aren't going our way, he struggles to counter it - Moore is not a tactician, he studies other's methods and copies them.

 

We all want Moore to succeed, however he probably does not have the mentality or ability to do so.

 

Nothing unique has ever come out of his mouth.   Nothing.   He copies others.

 

 

 

Who would you get in as manager?

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

41 minutes ago, DaveClark said:

Refusing to play certain people until there was no choice, and then - like Byers, they come to life and prove the manager wrong.

 

Byers was out injured for a big chunk of the season and needed managing back to full match fitness.

 

If anyone is aware of his qualities, it will be the bloke who signed him for the club, I reckon.