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8 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

 

For those willing to be honest about it; football supporter opinions are often grounded in tantrums when they don't get what they want and the compulsion to find someone to blame. Players, chairmen, referees and even figures in the media sometimes play a part, but more often than not it's the manager in the crosshairs as it's ostensibly 'easy' to replace him and magically 'fix' everything at a stroke. Never mind that the new bloke will probably be thought of in similar terms at his previous club(s) and in all likelihood is just treading water until he too becomes 'tactically naïve' or 'loses the dressing room'. Apart from Ron Atkinson and Steve Bruce, you'd probably have to go back to the 1980s to find our last boss who wasn't written off eventually as 'out of his depth', 'hopeless' or 'stealing a living' or whatever. It really makes you wonder why clubs pay these charlatans such fortunes if hardly any of them possess even the vaguest clue of what they are meant to be doing.

 

Once this point has been reached in the mind of the fan, it's almost impossible to get them to change their mind. All manner of logical gymnastics will be performed to 'prove' the judgement. This often takes the form of witless clichés that forego the awkward details of any real in-depth analysis. For example, if I was paid a tenner for every time I'd seen 'no plan B' on here in the last week, I could probably take early retirement in Florida by now. If the teams does badly, it is of course solely the manager's responsibility, no matter if the loss comes by the goalkeeper shovelling a harmless pass into his own net, but if it does well then all kinds of excuses are offered for how we managed to succeed despite his incompetence. The end always justifies the means. In the worst and most rabid cases, where rage is seen as intrinsically linked with the degree of care for the club's fortunes, I think some legitimate concerns can be raised about the psychology of some of these unfortunates as they are consumed by a need to be right to such an extent that no amount of evidence can grant them the humility to consider for even a moment that the situation might be slightly more complex than 'get him aht'. 

 

Just look at Alex Neil, who since last Friday has suddenly been elevated to the throne of football genius from the hitherto realms of the mediocre. It's overlooked that despite his god-like superiority that we took more points than Sunderland since he went there, that even as we bumbled our way haplessly through two contests that it required an injury time goal to get past us, or that he'd been out of work for almost a year following two disappointing seasons in his last role. One wonders how his legacy on here will fare should Wycombe somehow achieve the impossible and beat them in the final. But then, large numbers of Man City fans thought they knew better than their leader after defeat to Real Madrid; employing the same kinds of hackneyed old soundbites. But what does Pep Guardiola know? Ah... the wisdom of hindsight in a game of literally infinite variables that is often reduced to the illusion of something no more complex than the binary possibilities of a light switch. 

 

Yeah?

 

Well a better manager would still have taken us up as champions this season.

 

Wibble.

 

😉

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4 hours ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

Yeah. 

 

Crewe used the most, with 38, Shrewsbury the fewest with 21.

 

For comparison, the playoff teams used:

 

Franchise FC: 30

Wednesday: 30

Sunderland: 33

Wycombe: 24

 

As I say, we're not unusual in that regard - only eight teams used fewer players than us.

 

 

I believed you, it just surprised me...Crewe for example must have used all their squad plus all the U21's, I suppose getting relegated early wasn't a bad time to experiment.

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9 hours ago, mcmigo said:

Given I see a lot of both MKD and wednesday I will try to answer.

 

MKD- performed way ahead of expectations after Martin left for Swansea at the start of the season. They were a genuine pleasure to watch, and could not have done much more.  They absolutely battered Wycombe at home and just couldn’t get the second goal.  The issue with MKD is that they will now lose the very talented manager to qpr, lose their best two players twine and darling ( I think twine will be a good championship player, darling I can see playing top level football) , so the sense is that next season could be very different and nowhere near as strong.  However, the club is run well and the DOF knows his onions but it will be a real restart . 

 

us - I have much more optimism for next season. We will keep the manager , and we are out of the transfer ban. That means we can find and bring in good younger players and not rely on older , more injury prone players.  With a half decent summer of trading and no nonsense from the chairman , we have every chance next season. 

Can't QPR take Moore instead? 

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8 hours ago, DJMortimer said:

 

For those willing to be honest about it; football supporter opinions are often grounded in tantrums when they don't get what they want and the compulsion to find someone to blame. Players, chairmen, referees and even figures in the media sometimes play a part, but more often than not it's the manager in the crosshairs as it's ostensibly 'easy' to replace him and magically 'fix' everything at a stroke. Never mind that the new bloke will probably be thought of in similar terms at his previous club(s) and in all likelihood is just treading water until he too becomes 'tactically naïve' or 'loses the dressing room'. Apart from Ron Atkinson and Steve Bruce, you'd probably have to go back to the 1980s to find our last boss who wasn't written off eventually as 'out of his depth', 'hopeless' or 'stealing a living' or whatever. It really makes you wonder why clubs pay these charlatans such fortunes if hardly any of them possess even the vaguest clue of what they are meant to be doing.

 

Once this point has been reached in the mind of the fan, it's almost impossible to get them to change their mind. All manner of logical gymnastics will be performed to 'prove' the judgement. This often takes the form of witless clichés that forego the awkward details of any real in-depth analysis. For example, if I was paid a tenner for every time I'd seen 'no plan B' on here in the last week, I could probably take early retirement in Florida by now. If the teams does badly, it is of course solely the manager's responsibility, no matter if the loss comes by the goalkeeper shovelling a harmless pass into his own net, but if it does well then all kinds of excuses are offered for how we managed to succeed despite his incompetence. The end always justifies the means. In the worst and most rabid cases, where rage is seen as intrinsically linked with the degree of care for the club's fortunes, I think some legitimate concerns can be raised about the psychology of some of these unfortunates as they are consumed by a need to be right to such an extent that no amount of evidence can grant them the humility to consider for even a moment that the situation might be slightly more complex than 'get him aht'. 

 

Just look at Alex Neil, who since last Friday has suddenly been elevated to the throne of football genius from the hitherto realms of the mediocre. It's overlooked that despite his god-like superiority that we took more points than Sunderland since he went there, that even as we bumbled our way haplessly through two contests that it required an injury time goal to get past us, or that he'd been out of work for almost a year following two disappointing seasons in his last role. One wonders how his legacy on here will fare should Wycombe somehow achieve the impossible and beat them in the final. But then, large numbers of Man City fans thought they knew better than their leader after defeat to Real Madrid; employing the same kinds of hackneyed old soundbites. But what does Pep Guardiola know? Ah... the wisdom of hindsight in a game of literally infinite variables that is often reduced to the illusion of something no more complex than the binary possibilities of a light switch. 

One of the best posts I’ve ever seen on this forum.

When I read this forum, I’m stunned that all these so called fans that think they know better haven’t got management jobs in football.

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11 hours ago, Owlabroad2001 said:

Totally different situation. They are a young attacking team with a small budget who got a red card in the first leg. We are an aged team with a huge budget with basically one big chance at it this season and we blew it because of a massively defensive manager!

they didnt attack much in the 1st leg ....one shot on target and one corner ,perhaps they should sack there manger 

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10 hours ago, HopefulOwl said:

 

Lets try who played the best James Bond....  i'd give it 3 comments and we'll be on to how poo DM is...

Roger would have had us a inning playoffs. DM is just a poor man’s RM 😬

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Kind of off topic, but less off topic than the previous off topic posts…

 

Would a playoff structure similar to that in Scotland not be fairer?

 

5th v 6th

 

Winner plays 4th

 

Then winner plays 3rd. 
 

That way 3rd gets straight to the playoff final and there isn’t the arguably unfair situation of 5th v 6th as the final?

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18 hours ago, Tewkesbury said:

DM saying himself in interviews that "the team picks itself due to injuries" is a pretty good indication of his favoured side being unavailable.

What an asinine statement.

 

Probably every manager in the league will have found himself in a similar position at sone stage where his side picks itself due to injuries!

 

It's like open season on here with some posters as far as DM goes!

 

Let's look at some facts:

 

We've scored more goals this season than any of the last 10 seasons.

Our goals have come from literally all over the park.

We've got the best home record in the entire league.

He's formed a team out of a group of misfits and rejects and got them to perform at a decent level and all done with no money to spend due to embargo.

 

Just what is some of our fans problem with Moore, because I'm sorry but can't help feeling that consciously or otherwise is it down to his race and the fact that he is our first ever non-white manager?

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20 hours ago, Owlabroad2001 said:

A decent manager who doesn’t tinker would have got us up. Moore isn’t the man!


To be fair he didn’t tinker over the last 30 games.

 

For the middle third of the season he couldn’t tinker, unless he picked the kit-man or a ball-boy. Then in the final third of the season he rarely ‘tinkered’. He rotated modestly and sensibly, though he did make the odd weird call such as NML up the middle. But again, to his credit, after 4 games he saw it didn’t work and went back to using strikers.

 

However, and this is my concern, will Moorereinvent the wheel? I hope not but I fear so. He found 352. Apart from not having a leftie CB he put square pegs in square holes. He found a genuine and very effective playing style. He found a system and team that ‘won’ the league over the last 30 games…..DO NOT CHANGE! Do not search when you have found what works.

 

Will we see a new formation and new style early August? We don’t want to spend August to October farting around with formations, names and positions. If we do we’ll be in the same position come May as we were this season.

 

 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Utah Owl said:

What an asinine statement.

 

Probably every manager in the league will have found himself in a similar position at sone stage where his side picks itself due to injuries!

 

It's like open season on here with some posters as far as DM goes!

 

Let's look at some facts:

 

We've scored more goals this season than any of the last 10 seasons.

Our goals have come from literally all over the park.

We've got the best home record in the entire league.

He's formed a team out of a group of misfits and rejects and got them to perform at a decent level and all done with no money to spend due to embargo.

 

Just what is some of our fans problem with Moore, because I'm sorry but can't help feeling that consciously or otherwise is it down to his race and the fact that he is our first ever non-white manager?

How many of those managers had their best runs in charge during those times?

During those times he couldn't play this, so we changed to a more direct, pressing game and ground out wins.

 

 

My point is that we play a 352 slow build up from the back game based on getting the ball to Gregory in the D or on a cutback.

The counter to build up from the back is high press.

The solution to that counter is a long ball threat. 

So, to play it from the back effectively, you need a credible long ball threat, which we have none.

 

Hence us being great against some teams and terrible against others. We've had this issue almost all season.

 

Our goals nearly all follow exactly the same pattern, a cutback or off Gregory in the D. We had a couple of games when we scored from the long Johnson back post cross, but teams stopped that after 2-3 games.

 

When was the last time we scored from a throughball?

When did we last have a 1 on 1?

 

We've been pretty easy to defend against recently, needing set pieces and defensive mistakes to beat greatly inferior opposition. 

 

We've literally only made the playoffs die to scoring 11 set pieces in the last 12 games, as we couldn't beat the press.

 

As for the race thing, go fizz yourself and the horse you rode in on.

Why does nobody ever bring up race when the entire site is piling on Jayden Brown or Chey Dunkley?

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7 minutes ago, Tewkesbury said:

 

Why does nobody ever bring up race when the entire site is piling on Jayden Brown or Chey Dunkley?

 

Just out of context:  I believe that racists feel more threatened by a dark-skinned managers than by players and don't want to have anybody in power, who they cannot identify with.

 

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23 minutes ago, GermanBird said:

 

Just out of context:  I believe that racists feel more threatened by a dark-skinned managers than by players and don't want to have anybody in power, who they cannot identify with.

 

Maybe they do, but the accusations of racism never come up when the players are getting stick.

 

Personally, I think its more about shutting down the conversation.

 

Every conversation about Moore goes like this:

Moore did this.

Never happened.

It did (with specifics)

You're making it up, you have no evidence.

Supply evidence.

You've made 5 posts in this thread about him, you must be racist.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Tewkesbury said:

How many of those managers had their best runs in charge during those times?

During those times he couldn't play this, so we changed to a more direct, pressing game and ground out wins.

 

 

My point is that we play a 352 slow build up from the back game based on getting the ball to Gregory in the D or on a cutback.

The counter to build up from the back is high press.

The solution to that counter is a long ball threat. 

So, to play it from the back effectively, you need a credible long ball threat, which we have none.

 

Hence us being great against some teams and terrible against others. We've had this issue almost all season.

 

Our goals nearly all follow exactly the same pattern, a cutback or off Gregory in the D. We had a couple of games when we scored from the long Johnson back post cross, but teams stopped that after 2-3 games.

 

When was the last time we scored from a throughball?

When did we last have a 1 on 1?

 

We've been pretty easy to defend against recently, needing set pieces and defensive mistakes to beat greatly inferior opposition. 

 

We've literally only made the playoffs die to scoring 11 set pieces in the last 12 games, as we couldn't beat the press.

 

As for the race thing, go fizz yourself and the horse you rode in on.

Why does nobody ever bring up race when the entire site is piling on Jayden Brown or Chey Dunkley?

Where they from Bannan’s ‘crap’ corners?

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7 minutes ago, Tewkesbury said:

Maybe they do, but the accusations of racism never come up when the players are getting stick.

 

Personally, I think its more about shutting down the conversation.

 

Every conversation about Moore goes like this:

Moore did this.

Never happened.

It did (with specifics)

You're making it up, you have no evidence.

Supply evidence.

You've made 5 posts in this thread about him, you must be racist.

 

 

People keep raising the same arguments about DM even though they are not true.

Some people do have a problem only they know why!

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1 hour ago, Asio otus said:

People keep raising the same arguments about DM even though they are not true.

Some people do have a problem only they know why!

I don't know if this is a serious post or sarcasm, as it's exactly the argument I posted above.

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