JohnSheridansBigToe Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 10 minutes ago, andytrig said: I'm not a big fan of rugby but feel football could learn a great deal from the way it is officiated in general. Referees don't take any nonsense from players. Football officials need to be given the tools to stop decent, time wasting and games manship. Until this happens we will have to continue to put up with teams conning the ref and wasting two thirds of the game. I'd much rather they stopped indecent time wasting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Quinn Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 Var for me, I hate losing but if it's a fair loss then I don't really, I'll have a moan obviously but not as bad a moan if it's the wrong decision I agree with other comments about Rugby and add that American football make a day of their games and have refs telling the fans all the decisions they make, no controversies over there, obviously. I'm not saying we should have all day games by the way. Ffs 90 minutes is to long in league one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tewkesbury Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 15 minutes ago, andytrig said: I'm not a big fan of rugby but feel football could learn a great deal from the way it is officiated in general. Referees don't take any nonsense from players. Football officials need to be given the tools to stop decent, time wasting and games manship. Until this happens we will have to continue to put up with teams conning the ref and wasting two thirds of the game. The respect for the refs comes from the transparency. I'd rather hear the conversation between the ref and the linesman saying he didn't catch something and he miss it, than get a guessed decision then the inevitable make up decision 5 minutes later. Timewasting, the stopclock would work. Use the basketball finger countdown from the ref for throws and free kicks to keep it going when the clock is stopped, with the throw/kick being given to the other side if going over time. Give 5 seconds from when the whistle is blown for them to take it. Everythings solveable, and has been in other sports. But like in the NFL, it's the refs themselves keeping it as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flo Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 I'm sure if Sunderlands goal was ruled out by car then we would have celebrated. It works both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sturutter Posted May 11, 2022 Author Share Posted May 11, 2022 4 hours ago, Kevin Pressmans Pen said: It’s only an issue for marginal offsides our goal was way onside so it wouldn’t have been a problem. We’d have maybe got a pen too for the obstruction on Windass in the first half The fact that it was way onside is the exact point. We didn't know that at all in the ground. In a VAR era, having seen alot go to VAR and some canceled out, we would instantly have doubted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sturutter Posted May 11, 2022 Author Share Posted May 11, 2022 (edited) All of the debate in this thread has been about decisions. It's exactly that that makes us miss the crucial point. Even if you speed the process up, even if you show replays, even if you communicate better, even if you get every decision right, you badly damage the exact moments that we love football. Think of the moments that keep you going through the rest of the misery, and they are all the pure, instant, doubt-free joy of a goal. That is changed forever when VAR comes, and we are walking straight into it. "Celebrating twice" has not at all played out. What you instead get is one, more muted celebration, and then effectively standing, hoping that the game kicking off will bring an end to the doubt. Ask anyone who supports a Premier League team and is in the minority that actually goes to the game, and they will tell you about the numbing of emotions. Yes, it can provide some drama when the opposition has a goal ruled out, but that is nowhere near the same. We do not go to football to see "DECISION: NO GOAL" on a big screen. We go for the joy of a goal, and all the suspense that leads up to that. Damage that moment, and you damage everything. This is the biggest fundamental change in watching football in our lifetime. Var DOES make the game fairer. It already has. But, we are choosing between a slightly fairer game, and a more enjoyable game. Do we really want to take the game that seriously that we choose a bit more fairness over enjoyment? I think to do so would be mad. Edited May 11, 2022 by sturutter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 1 hour ago, wakefieldowl said: agree wholeheartedly VAR is abysmal. I would rather have wrong refereeing decisions than this VAR nonsense that is killing the game "Killing the game"? Really? 58 minutes ago, Tewkesbury said: Half of the issues is saving face for refs. Man up and do your job. In a rugby game I watched a while ago, thete was a controversial decision made, close to the end of a tight game. Emotions were high, so the captains ran up to the ref to see what was going on, they quietly asked, the ref immediately replied that yes, it was a penalty, however, just before it there had been a different incident, so it went the other way. While they were were with the ref, everyone else got into position to start play. The aggrieved captain said OK, jogged back and they carried on. It was on speaker so the crowd was happy. Took about 10 seconds from the decision to restarting play. If that was football, there would have been a crowd of players, some shoving, poinging etc. and a minute wasted. Same with video, they describe what they're looking at in real time, you can hear the conversation with the ref and everyone's happy. Refereeing in rugby is completely transparent, everyone knows what and why, so the refs are respected and trusted. In football, the ref's seem to be too self important, when it's the protecting themselves that erodes the trust in them. If they manned up and admitted to mistakes, as they do in rugby, everyone would be better off. Some good points here, but I think the main thing I'd like to add is that the discipline problem starts largely with the players themselves. For whatever reason, in football, barely restrained sh*thousery is accepted as normal in a way that is not tolerated in rugby. That applies in the stands too come to think of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tewkesbury Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 8 minutes ago, DJMortimer said: "Killing the game"? Really? Some good points here, but I think the main thing I'd like to add is that the discipline problem starts largely with the players themselves. For whatever reason, in football, barely restrained sh*thousery is accepted as normal in a way that is not tolerated in rugby. That applies in the stands too come to think of it. The players in Rugby can't surround the ref, it's in the rules. Only the Captain talks to the ref, or a player specifically called over. They only do it because they think they can influence the ref. Bring in the transparency mentioned before, so decisions have to be justified and the influence goes. See, easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboy66 Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 After watching that abject apology for a ref dismally fail to control the Liverpool and Villa players, fail to keep up with play and not look at all to VAR when he was in no position to see what happened then VAR can't come to quickly for me. The number of pisspoor decisions we get from the refs we have far outweigh any time issues with VAR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elyowl1 Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 1 hour ago, Skyline said: Windass would have got a red for stamping on his foot. Swings and roundabouts. Then both should have gone in the book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOOTIE AND THE SHIT TU Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 I like VAR I love the fact that it is helping to stop officials deciding the outcome of games No, it's not perfect But I've had 60 years of coming away from games talking about the referee Long live VAR 2 Just a bloke, who used up all his luck in one go when he met his wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 You dont need VAR You need fully contracted ,the best trained referees For the country of football we have some of the worse refs in world football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horny owl Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 Wednesday would definitely benefit from VAR The amount of refs who blatantly cheat against us is borderline criminal Take the power away from corrupt refs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dukeries Owl Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 11 hours ago, Truth is out there said: Aye Easily resolved Get to the feckin Prem I think it's safer to wait till the Championship becomes Premier League 2 then we'll be back in the Championship. I mean we can't hope to match the likes of Mighty outfits like Rotherham can we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brommers Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 11 hours ago, Tamworthowl said: I appreciate the integrity point, and the desire to avoid undermining the authority / respect of the pitch referee, but the process dictates that VAR is always reviewing and checking and to give the pitch ref the final say, to save face, is, for me, a pointless waste of time. If VAR thinks that a “clear and obvious mistake” may or may not have occurred but is not sure enough to “overrule” the pitch ref, then it is not “clear and obvious” and there is no need to review on the monitor. But if VAR is certain that a “clear and obvious” mistake has been made, then equally there is no need to review. Some great points being made in this debate, both for and against. I think VAR actually stops some refs making decisions as they think VAR will pick it up if necessary. On a separate note, did anyone see the Leeds sending off for Ayling against Arsenal at the weekend. Was an abomination of a challenge. Ref gave a yellow, VAR said to look at the monitor. He had to watch it about 8 times before changing his mind. I mean, if he can't see that as a red on the first viewing, what is he actually watching? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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