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3 minutes ago, Inspector Lestrade said:

 

There is a difference between constructive criticism with a healthy dollop of meaningful debate and moaning for the sake it.  

Not really, you're still going to get called racist.

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22 minutes ago, Tewkesbury said:

Not really, you're still going to get called racist.

 

If anything, I think the reverse is true.

 

I think that there are a group of fans on this site who are so desperate for Moore to do well, because of who he is, that it blinds them to his faults and/or they go easy on him.

 

If Tony Pulis or Dave Jones, unpopular managers that is, had been in charge of those two semis they'd have been absolutely slaughtered on this forum.

 

Pulis got more criticism than Moore before his first match.

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12 minutes ago, Athelwulf said:

 

If anything, I think the reverse is true.

 

I think that there are a group of fans on this site who are so desperate for Moore to do well, because of who he is, that it blinds them to his faults and/or they go easy on him.

 

If Tony Pulis or Dave Jones, unpopular managers that is, had been in charge of those two semis they'd have been absolutely slaughtered on this forum.

 

Pulis got more criticism than Moore before his first match.

 

Let's put it that way.

It's very difficult to discuss any tactical mistakes or issues without getting the haters and racists creaping out of their corners.

If there was a more balanced atmosphere, it would be much more enjoyable to discuss and criticize.

When all you get is a "Moore out" after every draw or unconvincing victory, it just kills every discussion.

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2 minutes ago, GermanBird said:

 

Let's put it that way.

It's very difficult to discuss any tactical mistakes or issues without getting the haters and racists creaping out of their corners.

If there was a more balanced atmosphere, it would be much more enjoyable to discuss and criticize.

When all you get is a "Moore out" after every draw or unconvincing victory, it just kills every discussion.

It's very often the other way round.

 

Every time you bring up something tactical, the race police jump into the thread, usually half way through a conversation.

I've not managed to finish a conversation yet about tactics etc as every one usually ends up with 3-4 others randomly jumping in and derailing it with the racism and straw man arguments.

 

I've been called or had it insinuated that I'm a racist 3-4 times in the last day or two, not had one reasoned comment on why my opinions were wrong though.

 

How about after every draw or unconvincing victory, the first thread wasn't "I bet all the Moore out brigade loved that"

 

This site is not balanced at all, but not in the way you think.

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Just now, Tewkesbury said:

It's very often the other way round.

 

Every time you bring up something tactical, the race police jump into the thread, usually half way through a conversation.

I've not managed to finish a conversation yet about tactics etc as every one usually ends up with 3-4 others randomly jumping in and derailing it with the racism and straw man arguments.

 

I've been called or had it insinuated that I'm a racist 3-4 times in the last day or two, not had one reasoned comment on why my opinions were wrong though.

 

How about after every draw or unconvincing victory, the first thread wasn't "I bet all the Moore out brigade loved that"

 

This site is not balanced at all, but not in the way you think.

 

I have to agree with you on that.  I have seen that you've been called a racist and I don't understand why! IMO it's unjust!

I have pulled the racist card myself against people, who just make nasty statments without content.

You always explain your opinion and I never have seen anything but a proper tactical discussion from you.

 

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1 hour ago, Inspector Lestrade said:

 

There is a difference between constructive criticism with a healthy dollop of meaningful debate and moaning for the sake it.  

Pretty much what i have stated mate.....no one liked the 'Moore out' posts after losing one match in a good run,just plain idiocy,but that aside there are many fans,myself included that feel we lost our best chance of returning straight back to the Championship this season.....

Its a legitimate view.....if people find it 'negative' or 'constant moaning'than so be it..

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Just now, Inspector Lestrade said:

 

Why you calling me racist?

I think a couple of people have got the wrong end of the stick here, sorry.

 

My point was that you're going to get called racist whether you provide constructive criticism with a healthy dollop of meaningful debate or just moan for the sake of it 

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21 minutes ago, GermanBird said:

 

I have to agree with you on that.  I have seen that you've been called a racist and I don't understand why! IMO it's unjust!

I have pulled the racist card myself against people, who just make nasty statments without content.

You always explain your opinion and I never have seen anything but a proper tactical discussion from you.

 

Well said.....Personally i NEVER allow discussions to be derailed by accusations or even implied racism....because thats EXACTLY what the person doing it wants.....to move the conversation away from the topic,and onto racism.

Personally in a team full of people of colour,and Foreign Nationals,its seems bizzarre to accuse people of racism just because our manager happens to be black.

Whats that got to do with finding fault with team selections ,tactics,& substitutions?..

Have people forgotten so soon the outright at ties hatred of GM on here?....Same with Jos & TP....its what happens in Football.....managers and sometimes players get critised,sometimes UNFAIRLY..Unless there is an obvious reason to think its racist,why assume it?

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Just now, Tewkesbury said:

I think a couple of people have got the wrong end of the stick here, sorry.

 

My point was that you're going to get called racist whether you provide constructive criticism with a healthy dollop of meaningful debate or just moan for the sake of it 

 

Why would they call me a racist?  No one has ever called me racist on OT, so what makes you think I am?  Back it up with evidence.  

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On 12/05/2022 at 19:41, Carl Shutt is God said:

I keep seeing the fact most of our team is full of championship standard players.

 

I'm interested to know which players in our squad are actually championship standard.

Bannan, err that's it really.

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On 12/05/2022 at 19:41, Carl Shutt is God said:

I keep seeing the fact most of our team is full of championship standard players.

 

I'm interested to know which players in our squad are actually championship standard.

Start with the seven who remained when we were relegated,established Championship players,than Dean,Gregory, etc look where they had been playing,and also players from PL Clubs BPF being one......pretty easy Q to answer to be honest....

NO we didnt get promotion but there are Clubs in the PL as an example,Burnley,Everton,Leeds..etc in a relegation battle....If they were to get relegated would you say there players are not PL standard?

Tacics matter as well not just players

Edited by parajack
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On 12/05/2022 at 13:40, DIPPS_S.W.F.C said:

I know,get Darren Moore in....

Oh hang on we already have him...

Why not get behind him and the squad and the club and all push in same direction....

Maybe part blame of not succeeding this season to much negativity and moaning from repeating  boring fans...Jog on or shut up get down Lane with other muppets....WAWAW=together...

UTO.....

 

Pointless 'clapping post' anyone can do it, 'getting behind the team' didnt win either of the play off matchs did it? nor did the amazing away support we have alter our miserable away form ONE JOT  did it?

Take the blue & white specs off mate......Read back your post REALLY suggesting fan comments on a forum effected our teams performance this season? Not the manager? not the coaching team? not the players?(two of whom at least are probably Millionairres?) not the 'advisors'?

But hard working fans,many of whom are season ticket holders,sometimes of many decades standing?  People who put their money into the Club Year in,Year out?

They cant have a say because YOU dont like it?.............MMMmmmm    ok..why put WAWAW when your post is exactly the opposite?

Dont you mean WAWAW? as long as you agree with me?..

Edited by parajack
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18 minutes ago, parajack said:

Well said.....Personally i NEVER allow discussions to be derailed by accusations or even implied racism....because thats EXACTLY what the person doing it wants.....to move the conversation away from the topic,and onto racism.

Personally in a team full of people of colour,and Foreign Nationals,its seems bizzarre to accuse people of racism just because our manager happens to be black.

Whats that got to do with finding fault with team selections ,tactics,& substitutions?..

Have people forgotten so soon the outright at ties hatred of GM on here?....Same with Jos & TP....its what happens in Football.....managers and sometimes players get critised,sometimes UNFAIRLY..Unless there is an obvious reason to think its racist,why assume it?

 

There are racists here on Owlstalk! 

It's neither you nor Twekesbury and it's unfair, if anybody calls you racist.

However, it's naive to say that all those "Moore out" posters and "eerrmm" posters have nothing to do with racism. That's more than the usual manager pelter.

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53 minutes ago, GermanBird said:

 

Let's put it that way.

It's very difficult to discuss any tactical mistakes or issues without getting the haters and racists creaping out of their corners.

If there was a more balanced atmosphere, it would be much more enjoyable to discuss and criticize.

When all you get is a "Moore out" after every draw or unconvincing victory, it just kills every discussion.

 

You see, this is where our opinions differ.

 

I've never regarded criticism of Moore as being from haters or racists.

 

The reason I say that is because of the criticism previous managers have had on this site, which frankly was far worse than Moore has had.

 

There is a race police on this site.

 

I'll give you an example.

 

A few months ago we were discussing managers, and I said something like "Well, look at Coco's injury problems".

 

Now Coco is the pet name for Carlos, after he dressed up as a clown to give a team talk.

 

I was referring to the terrible injury problems we suffered while Carlos was here.

 

One policeman gave me a mid-Atlantic "Just wow", another inquired "Who's Coco?".

 

At first I didn't catch on, then it dawned on me what they were thinking.

 

Yeah. As if...

 

So there are people on the site just waiting to pounce, and analyzing every word.

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1 minute ago, GermanBird said:

 

There are racists here on Owlstalk! 

It's neither you nor Twekesbury and it's unfair, if anybody calls you racist.

However, it's naive to say that all those "Moore out" posters and "eerrmm" posters have nothing to do with racism. That's more than the usual manager pelter.

Maybe there is,racism exists,and football is part of wider society,its quite clear that people who cant string a sentence together and usually throw in an exclamation mark at the end of a very short sentence,MAY have an agenda,other than footballing matters...

Every now and again we see a thread on here started by one,personally i tend to ignore them,there boring and uninteresting,inane at times...usually dont let them draw you into their World...

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6 minutes ago, GermanBird said:

 

There are racists here on Owlstalk! 

It's neither you nor Twekesbury and it's unfair, if anybody calls you racist.

However, it's naive to say that all those "Moore out" posters and "eerrmm" posters have nothing to do with racism. That's more than the usual manager pelter.

I dont think those who emphasise DM speech impediment are neccessarily racist(though they may be) they could easily just be cruel & bullies latching onto the easiest thing  to slur him,i have had it on here over my spelling & Grammar,until i shamed those concerned as being ignorent of Dyslexia

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I do agree with you:

- I should really learn to ignore the idiots

- There is also a big problem with our current culture of policing everything

- this "political correctness thing" seems to have the only purpose to bully other people and has to stop

 

(But I still can't sit still and listen to haters and racists without saying anything as I would feel guilty.
It might have something to do with being German and growing up in a country, which has been guilty for being quiet while the Nazis murdered millions.)

 

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11 minutes ago, parajack said:

Start with the seven who remained when we were relegated,established Championship players,than Dean,Gregory, etc look where they had been playing,and also players from PL Clubs BPF being one......pretty easy Q to answer to be honest....

NO we didnt get promotion but there are Clubs in the PL as an example,Burnley,Everton,Leeds..etc in a relegation battle....If they were to get relegated would you say there players are not PL standard?

Tacics matter as well not just players

Of course tactics matter I never said they didn't and I too have been critical of Moore regarding tactics.

 

It's not as simple as just because a player has played in the championship in their career they are that standard at this point in time.  Bannan certainly is but is aging, a lot of the players who we signed from championship clubs couldn't get in a championship team which is why we managed to sign them. 

 

How many of our squad would be signed now by a championship team to play as a regular starter or not as cheap back up?

 

Mentioning Dean who we signed halfway through the season at a point our form became automatic promotion form is kind of proving my point, a time when Luongo became available too. 

 

And claiming Peacock-Farrell is a Premier League keeper is laughable how many games has he played? They sent him here to develop, he was replaced as no. 1 at Leeds because they didn't think he was good enough for the championship. I bet there are loads of players in league one who once were at a premier league club but didn't make it.

 

My opinion is that some fans are vastly overating our squad to use as a stick to beat Moore with just as they are using last seasons relegation the same. These fans conveniently forget that the players were not being paid the club was in turmoil and our manager had a life threatening illness and missed quite a few games (I have even seen one poster claim that they once had pneumonia so they are not having the fact he was ill as an excuse for relegation because obviously all cases of pneumonia are exactly the same).

 

Moore is by no means perfect there is a lot he needs to do differently and next season will be make or break for him but there are some people on here who clearly made their mind up early  and will not listen to a single balanced view. In my view he has earnt the chance to try again next season.

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3 hours ago, TheSlicer said:

Better than one of our best points tally in the second half of the season. Yeah, righto. 

Another season in the Third Division thanks to Moore's failure to manage the best squad in the division

Let us hope he can do better when we 'go again' and get automatic promotion

But I have my doubts and would prefer a manager more able to respond flexibly and adopt necessary tactics

 

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