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3 hours ago, parajack said:

I havnt misunderstood ANYTHING  you asked a Q i answered it,you just dont like the answer.........SIMPLE AS...I have stated plenty to back up my opinion you just dont want to see it,because you dont agree with it

We were relegated by an EFL Sanction,not by not having enough points to stay up,we were a Championship team,of many Years standing,and started our campaign with 7 first team Championship regulars,signed IN THE MAIN from Championship Clubs on Championship level terms... not opinion at all

So which of the above is incorrect and not factual?

 

Which 7 championship regulars do you mean? 

 

You have stated Peacock-Farrell is a Premier League keeper even though the only season he stated first choice in the championship Leeds bought a keeper half way through the season to replace him and he has as far as I am aware played one premier league game and conceded 5 goals. He has received plenty of criticism this season playing as a league one player and needs to improve if he is to become a premier league or championship regular.

 

You have used two centre backs as a reason who both signed in January when we then had automatic promotion form once they signed (although Dean only played 7 games).

 

You then used a striker who has been injured all season as an example.

 

Its not that I don't like the answer I just don't agree with it. Your quite entitled to your opinion just as I am entitled to disagree. In my opinion the team is being overated by some fans as a stick to beat Moore with.

 

Moore is certainly not immune from criticism but I think he deserves to stay on as manager.

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8 hours ago, SiJ said:

Exactly. 

 

Give him a chance to build on what we did on the season just gone. 

 

Yes, we need to make a positive start. I don't think we can be still trying to work out our best team/formation and be getting to October/November. 

 

Let's be honest though, Moore could be very successful here and some posters on this website would never give him any credit. They've made their mind up and nothing will change it. 

I dont think that is strictly true regarding DM and not being given credit.. Its been clear all season he hasnt a game plan and if he had started positively last season, we would have been promoted. He still doesnt know his best team. You can have all the formations you want its the game plan what counts. 4312/424/433/532  doesnt mean a thing. Having said that, there are not that many candidates who you could consider for the managers job. He had the chance to be succesful but it didnt pan out that way.

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3 hours ago, DIPPS_S.W.F.C said:

M8 only 1 drama queen on here....

I didnt say you were a drama queen or insult YOU in any way,i just said stop being dramatic.....(ie Blade nonsense...) pull me on what i say,not on what i dont say....

it makes better debate...seasons gone,and our hope of promotion with it.....lets not take it out on each other

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5 hours ago, Carl Shutt is God said:

 

Which 7 championship regulars do you mean? 

 

You have stated Peacock-Farrell is a Premier League keeper even though the only season he stated first choice in the championship Leeds bought a keeper half way through the season to replace him and he has as far as I am aware played one premier league game and conceded 5 goals. He has received plenty of criticism this season playing as a league one player and needs to improve if he is to become a premier league or championship regular.

 

You have used two centre backs as a reason who both signed in January when we then had automatic promotion form once they signed (although Dean only played 7 games).

 

You then used a striker who has been injured all season as an example.

 

Its not that I don't like the answer I just don't agree with it. Your quite entitled to your opinion just as I am entitled to disagree. In my opinion the team is being overated by some fans as a stick to beat Moore with.

 

Moore is certainly not immune from criticism but I think he deserves to stay on as manager.

Your twisting what i said,and sadly more than that some fool has put loved.....sad really because this seasons debacle has cost us 14 Million quid and our best chance of promotion.

You asked a simple Q: ie people keep saying we have a team full of Championship players,name them....(sic not quoting exactly,feel free to do so) I answered it,again i say you dont LIKE the answer,its a simple FACT we started the season with 7 players who were regulars in the Championship the previous season when we were relegated...FACT not opinion.....

You didnt stipulate when other players entered our squad either did you?Storey,Dean,etc that an irrelevence that you later added,as to BPF he came from Burnley, a PL Club,he has returned to Burnley a PL Club,its as simple as that.

They may play him,they may NOT play him,thats their perogtive. He REMAINS a PL  Player,used or not...

Disagree on our progress this season if you wish that IS a matter of opinion,but dont try to say we didnt have a team full of Championship standard players

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I'd like Moore to stay, but it's not a clear 100% answer.

 

Look what Alex Neill did at Sunderland, in such a short space of time.


1 Transfer window, signing Patrick Roberts and Jack Clarke, complete master strokes that really did a number on us, having 2 sets of quality young legs down each flank. 

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5 minutes ago, parajack said:

Your twisting what i said,and sadly more than that some fool has put loved.....sad really because this seasons debacle has cost us 14 Million quid and our best chance of promotion.

You asked a simple Q: ie people keep saying we have a team full of Championship players,name them....(sic not quoting exactly,feel free to do so) I answered it,again i say you dont LIKE the answer,its a simple FACT we started the season with 7 players who were regulars in the Championship the previous season when we were relegated...FACT not opinion.....

You didnt stipulate when other players entered our squad either did you?Storey,Dean,etc that an irrelevence that you later added,as to BPF he came from Burnley, a PL Club,he has returned to Burnley a PL Club,its as simple as that.

They may play him,they may NOT play him,thats their perogtive. He REMAINS a PL  Player,used or not...

Disagree on our progress this season if you wish that IS a matter of opinion,but dont try to say we didnt have a team full of Championship standard players

If 7 players got relegated from the Championship, does that make them Championship standard players? As for BPF being a Prem goalie because he's at Burnley, our 2nd choice goalie  at the  start of the 99/00 season (the last time we were in the Prem) was Barry Richardson. If anyone remembers him, they'd struggle to call him a division 1 goalie, so I'm not sure your logic applies.

You are saying this season was a debacle. Jack Charlton, who most consider a top top manager and took Ireland to new heights took 3 years to get us promoted. He also only got 80 points that year (55 under 2 for a win which convert to 80) after signing a Prem regular (Curran). He didn't have lots of injuries problems either. 

I'm not DMs biggest fan but I think he deserves lots of slack, he's brought the club to a more harmonious state. 

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20 minutes ago, onlyonedavidhirst said:

If 7 players got relegated from the Championship, does that make them Championship standard players? As for BPF being a Prem goalie because he's at Burnley, our 2nd choice goalie  at the  start of the 99/00 season (the last time we were in the Prem) was Barry Richardson. If anyone remembers him, they'd struggle to call him a division 1 goalie, so I'm not sure your logic applies.

You are saying this season was a debacle. Jack Charlton, who most consider a top top manager and took Ireland to new heights took 3 years to get us promoted. He also only got 80 points that year (55 under 2 for a win which convert to 80) after signing a Prem regular (Curran). He didn't have lots of injuries problems either. 

I'm not DMs biggest fan but I think he deserves lots of slack, he's brought the club to a more harmonious state. 

Yes of course it does,are you going to say Evertons players are not PL standard if they get relegated? SILLY logic....Burnley?..and really? going back what over 20 Years to try to make a point? your point is no more valid than me using Ramsdale loaned out to Chessy & Wimbledon..or Henderson(who currently cant get a game)

Big Jack(i watched his teams did you?) is going back to the 70s even further....its the 21st Century  time to talk about the here and now.

And by the way,it wasnt me who started this entire have we got Championship players  in our squad debate,i simply challenged the assertion we hadnt....

When relegated we had been a Championship side for some Years,and our squad contained players on meaty Championship contracts..

STILL does for that matter

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32 minutes ago, parajack said:

Yes of course it does,are you going to say Evertons players are not PL standard if they get relegated? SILLY logic....Burnley?..and really? going back what over 20 Years to try to make a point? your point is no more valid than me using Ramsdale loaned out to Chessy & Wimbledon..or Henderson(who currently cant get a game)

Big Jack(i watched his teams did you?) is going back to the 70s even further....its the 21st Century  time to talk about the here and now.

And by the way,it wasnt me who started this entire have we got Championship players  in our squad debate,i simply challenged the assertion we hadnt....

When relegated we had been a Championship side for some Years,and our squad contained players on meaty Championship contracts..

STILL does for that matter

Yeah I quoted Jack because I was there through his reign and I think it's a valid point. I disagree with you regarding our players as well, last year they were relegated from the Championship, this year they've not been promoted from league 1, I'd say that makes them league 1 players. I'd say that's part of why we were relegated, we had too many players that weren't good enough for the Championship. If we had have gone up, I'd have said we'd need 6-7 new signings of quality. Talking about now, if you feel we aren't allowed to quote history, Hutch used to be Champ quality but he's no longer that and hasn't been for 24 months. Hunt is the same. Dunkley as well, I'm not convinced any of our strikers are Champ quality, there's an argument for Windass and Gregory, but Gregory was 4/5th choice at Stoke who arent pulling any trees up and Windass needs to sort his injury record out to prove he's above this level. It'll be interesting to see how many of our Championship quality players are snapped up by Championship sides in the close season. 

As for your point about Everton, well they won't get relegated in my opinion but I suspect a few of their players have dropped below Prem quality. I do think though that some of Norwich's 1sr team aren't Premiership quality, maybe even a few of Burnley's 1st team, so I'd also say that BPF isn't Prem quality either. I'd love to see stats that show he's good enough for the Prem. Using your argument, it must mean Scott Carson is possibly the best English goalie as he's on the books at Man City, the team likely to win the Premiership. 

Like I said, I think DM has his faults and I'm not convinced by him, but to say this season has been a debacle when we got 85 points is just unfair in my opinion. Yes there are times we could have got more, yes he needs to be better at game management, but there are times when we could have got less and every fan of every club talks about missed opportunities throughout the season and dropped points. We'd have gone up if Dunkleys goal at Wycombe was given, BPF didn't make the error at Ipswich and we don't score an own goal at Morecambe - how would you view DM then given that he really couldn't be blamed for those 3 situations.

Either way, whatever we feel, let's hope we go up next year whoever is in charge.

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8 hours ago, onlyonedavidhirst said:

Yeah I quoted Jack because I was there through his reign and I think it's a valid point. I disagree with you regarding our players as well, last year they were relegated from the Championship, this year they've not been promoted from league 1, I'd say that makes them league 1 players. I'd say that's part of why we were relegated, we had too many players that weren't good enough for the Championship. If we had have gone up, I'd have said we'd need 6-7 new signings of quality. Talking about now, if you feel we aren't allowed to quote history, Hutch used to be Champ quality but he's no longer that and hasn't been for 24 months. Hunt is the same. Dunkley as well, I'm not convinced any of our strikers are Champ quality, there's an argument for Windass and Gregory, but Gregory was 4/5th choice at Stoke who arent pulling any trees up and Windass needs to sort his injury record out to prove he's above this level. It'll be interesting to see how many of our Championship quality players are snapped up by Championship sides in the close season. 

As for your point about Everton, well they won't get relegated in my opinion but I suspect a few of their players have dropped below Prem quality. I do think though that some of Norwich's 1sr team aren't Premiership quality, maybe even a few of Burnley's 1st team, so I'd also say that BPF isn't Prem quality either. I'd love to see stats that show he's good enough for the Prem. Using your argument, it must mean Scott Carson is possibly the best English goalie as he's on the books at Man City, the team likely to win the Premiership. 

Like I said, I think DM has his faults and I'm not convinced by him, but to say this season has been a debacle when we got 85 points is just unfair in my opinion. Yes there are times we could have got more, yes he needs to be better at game management, but there are times when we could have got less and every fan of every club talks about missed opportunities throughout the season and dropped points. We'd have gone up if Dunkleys goal at Wycombe was given, BPF didn't make the error at Ipswich and we don't score an own goal at Morecambe - how would you view DM then given that he really couldn't be blamed for those 3 situations.

Either way, whatever we feel, let's hope we go up next year whoever is in charge.

I like DM seems a very nice guy,and a damn decent human being,precious few of those about in any area of life,let alone the cutthroat nature of football.Theres no denying we are currently playing an attacking style of football,entertaining at times,but full of error prone,preventable mistakes,too much tapping around in our own half,and too little creativity with set pieces/corners/etc,etc....

ITS COST US PROMOTION.....& may see us languishing in this League for many Seasons to come.(i hope im'e wrong!)

The debate has been had on Darren,people still(in the main) unable to convince others of their view,and all we have left is to see where the close & pre season,+ friendlies leave us,before we can carry on our debate.

WAWAW

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2 hours ago, parajack said:

I like DM seems a very nice guy,and a damn decent human being,precious few of those about in any area of life,let alone the cutthroat nature of football.Theres no denying we are currently playing an attacking style of football,entertaining at times,but full of error prone,preventable mistakes,too much tapping around in our own half,and too little creativity with set pieces/corners/etc,etc....

ITS COST US PROMOTION.....& may see us languishing in this League for many Seasons to come.(i hope im'e wrong!)

The debate has been had on Darren,people still(in the main) unable to convince others of their view,and all we have left is to see where the close & pre season,+ friendlies leave us,before we can carry on our debate.

WAWAW

Fair point, I'm just not sure that his actions cost us promotion. Another manager may not have got the same level as output from this squad, they may not have turned Berahino around, they may have bottled Fleetwood and Portsmouth games where we were behind in both. 

I was very frustrated with our performance at Sunderland, I really think we lost some momentum by going there so defensively (we set up like we did once we were 3 up at MK) and you might be right, I'm just prepared to cut him plenty of slack as I see plenty of positives as well and it's the first time since Bruce that I've looked forwards to going to/watching matches so much. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, onlyonedavidhirst said:

Fair point, I'm just not sure that his actions cost us promotion. Another manager may not have got the same level as output from this squad, they may not have turned Berahino around, they may have bottled Fleetwood and Portsmouth games where we were behind in both. 

I was very frustrated with our performance at Sunderland, I really think we lost some momentum by going there so defensively (we set up like we did once we were 3 up at MK) and you might be right, I'm just prepared to cut him plenty of slack as I see plenty of positives as well and it's the first time since Bruce that I've looked forwards to going to/watching matches so much. 

Blowing out of the Play Offs has cost the Club(and Chansiri) 14 Million,ime just hoping he has a contingency plan to help us recruit and push on next season.The right players need to be retained,and the right ones allowed to go.........

Draw a line under past failure,and spend & bring in the signings we need to get automatics,nothing less will give us the guarantee(ime sure we need) of getting back into the Championship TV money...

Lets see what the close & pre season brings and hope Darren HAS learned.....

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To have any hope the first thing we've got to resolve are our defensive woes.

 

Rotherham weren't better than us, for instance, but they were better at defending.

 

When they came here in February they'd conceded around 18 league goals.

 

If you cant defend free kicks and corners at this level, you've no chance.

 

And the grievous, needless goals we shipped giving the ball to our opponents cost us dear.

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1 hour ago, Athelwulf said:

To have any hope the first thing we've got to resolve are our defensive woes.

 

Rotherham weren't better than us, for instance, but they were better at defending.

 

When they came here in February they'd conceded around 18 league goals.

 

If you cant defend free kicks and corners at this level, you've no chance.

 

And the grievous, needless goals we shipped giving the ball to our opponents cost us dear.

Its unarguable this was a significant part of our failure to get promotion,yet some fans just dont still see it....

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3 hours ago, Dutch McLovin said:

Di Canio 

 

Winner, done a great Job at Swindon and then kept Sunderland up.

 

Unfinished Business and would do it his way not Chansiri's.

Bang on the money choice,forget his politics it has no place in football....

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