Absolute melts

[bigthinrob]

On 07/05/2022 at 01:24, Kevin Pressmans Pen said:

It’s quite simple really, when managers meet or surpass expectations they get praise and when they don’t they get criticism. 
 

Megson got praise then stick because we dropped points against rubbish teams. Jones comes in and could do no wrong as we didn’t lose for something like 17 games, then by Xmas people were giving him pelters after we started losing. Gray got results a bit better than expected and was mostly praised. Carlos just about met expectations and still received heavy criticism from some. Jos was uninspiring and got poor results so was criticised. Bruce lost 4 in 20 and looked promising so was praised. Monk got praise initially leading us to 3rd, then widespread criticism after overseeing our collapse. Pulis got stick for dour football and results.

 

Moore took us down and then got us 4th with the highest budget in the league. Obviously a lot of fans aren’t happy with his record, but there are plenty who are who mostly don’t respect the other opinion. I can’t see what any of it has to do with race, it’s to do with results on the pitch.

 

Criticising him tonight halfway through is unhelpful though. If we don’t go up then it’s not the play off games it’s the lack of results against rubbish sides which stopped us getting autos that should be the focus. Play offs always a lottery.

Absolutely spot on.

 

Some people will search high & low, under any stone, in any nook & cranny, for any signs of perceived racism, normally that doesn’t exist.
 

It’s become a national obsession. “If it doesn’t exist, we’ll make damn sure we twist things to make it look like it does”.

 

Our fan base is so racist you only have to look at the list of ‘most remembered’ (for want of a better description) and most of the favourites have been black players and none of them in the top of the ‘most gifted’ category. They were just loved for their commitment & personalities. 
 

 

[Marro]

8 hours ago, owls maniac said:

How much of that is on the temperament of the players? 
 

Darren Moore can’t legislate for a seasoned pro like Hutch dropping a massive ball in a play off semi final. 

No DM can’t legislate for players making mistakes and that is just one of those things. Hutchinson has been magnificent all season.

 

I do get angry when people bring out the race card.  IMO DM got his tactics wrong.  His football philosophy is different from mine.  I believe we could have played on the front foot at the SoL and got a 3-0 win as opposed to playing for a draw and nick a 1-0 if we are lucky.  Many will disagree with me on here and that is ok.

 

I didn’t like Carlos’ tactics against Huddersfield and in other games but that does not make me xenophobic.

[MF TAZ]

Errrrr

 

as a big Moore fan I have to admit he made mistakes 

 

bannan should not have played but he’d have been pulled up for that if he didn’t 

 

But if it wasn’t for hutch’ mistake, we’d have taken them back at 0-0 so…. He did ok 

 

I think given the result and the doom feeling over the tie now, people wished we’d gone out to leather them 

 

also if we’d lost 3-2 the tie would feel more open in a stupid way as we’d at least be scoring.

 

I think the crowd at hillsborough will be bad if we go into ht not winning 

 

moore hasn’t done the best job he could over this tie but actively criticising him his nuts 

 

no manager with his record over the last 6 months should be getting grief 

[Screen Door Slams]

3 hours ago, Tewkesbury said:

For every thread questioning DM, there are three whinging about bashing DM, usually posted pre-criticism.

 

At the end of the day, football's entertainment. A sideshow in the circus of life.

That's it.

 

Criticising the decisions of football managers on a football forum does not mean you aren't a fan, it's not going to effect his decisions or the results in any way, and even if he did look at any of this, he's a big boy and criticism from fans is part of the job in exactly the same way that the acclaim is when he wins. They're two sides of the same coin.

 

Grow up.

 

If someone raises a critical point, refute that point. Argue the point. Justify the decision in question.

Educate. Discuss.

 

Just because you disagree and think he's done a good job, doesn't mean you're right or wrong, it's your opinion.

 

Absolute melt, not a proper fan etc. aren't helping anyone. All it's coming across as is 'I don't have an argument, so I'll call them stuff so I can feel better'

 

You do realise that you're on here criticising people for criticising?

Can you honestly say you've never criticised a player or manager?

 

Hypocrites, all of you.

 

This x 1000................................"full of $hit" etc ,  how dare anyone have a different opinion.

 

And as for going as far as snide accusations that people are racist just for being critical....................quite frankly appalling , unless of course there is proof , in which case name and shame.

[MF TAZ]

Not everyone who doesn’t like moore is racist 

 

but all the racists don’t like moore 

[Tewkesbury]

3 minutes ago, Taz said:

Not everyone who doesn’t like moore is racist 

 

but all the racists don’t like moore 

Pretty sure most of them have never heard of him.

[Guest Jack the Hat]

On 06/05/2022 at 23:57, owls maniac said:

It’s beyond boring now. 
 

Stand by what I said before, some of the animosity towards him definitely isn’t football related. 

I've been consistent all season with my comments about Moore, and so have pretty much all the other posters. These relate to team selection (when he has a full squad in particular), formations and tactics, in game management -particular subtitutions -(which have TBF improved over the last couple of weeks) and what the hell do they do in defensive training when defending set pieces?   These comments are consistent with those on the Doncaster forum I read when he joined where, I would say 50 % of their fans were not sorry to see him go.

He has been schooled by more experienced , but average managers, such as Appleton and Neil regularly this season. The fact we are still posting the same comments at the end of the season suggests to me slow progress and casts doubts on him being the man to take us forward.

It is obvious what you mean by 'definitely not football related', and is a very salutary and IMO unfair comment. So above are the 'footballing reasons' many fans have doubts about him in League One, the championship would be much more difficult. Personally I would have preferred a more experienced manager.

[Owls2k]

11 hours ago, shandypants said:

Moore rebuilt the squad - did you expect the players to gel instantly? They are not robots. Did you expect Moore to absolutely know individual player’s strength and weakness and be able to find the right mix instantly? No manager ever has been able to do that from game one. Did you expect Moore to be able to win every game this season playing perfect attacking football? Even Pep and Klopp can’t do that. Consider all those things and throw in a major injury crisis at centre-halve.
 

You (and the other Wednesdayites that also have this unreasonable and impatient expectation) are full of 5h1t mate. Full. Of. 5h1t. 

No need for that final comment, were you on the beers?

 

Not a good look at all. Opinions are opinions. 

 

Shame after the fair points. 

 

The 'unreasonable and impatient expectation' that I have is what the manager, players, staff and fans had at the start of the season. And hearing from the players in certain interviews recently shows they still have those expectations. So no unreasonable at all. It's so important we get out of this division.

 

The quality we have at our disposal now will only go one way if we stay put, and then it becomes harder and harder to get out of this league. Blink and we'll be a Sunderland. Fingers crossed we get over the line. 

 

 

 

 

[WorrallOwl17]

On 07/05/2022 at 01:31, Owls2k said:

 

The issue there is Jos wasn't managing in a tinpot league chief. 

 

I don't care about anything but league position. 

 

We should have been top this season, as the squad and management we're aiming for. We're fourth. With a squad every other manager in this division drools over. 

 

And more importantly we're still approaching games in a petrified manner. 

 

Completely bizarre. 

 

 

 

in one topic you've become my favourite owlstalk poster, some superb points made from you in here, well played

[shandypants]

23 hours ago, Owls2k said:

No need for that final comment, were you on the beers?

 

Not a good look at all. Opinions are opinions. 

 

Shame after the fair points. 

 

The 'unreasonable and impatient expectation' that I have is what the manager, players, staff and fans had at the start of the season. And hearing from the players in certain interviews recently shows they still have those expectations. So no unreasonable at all. It's so important we get out of this division.

 

The quality we have at our disposal now will only go one way if we stay put, and then it becomes harder and harder to get out of this league. Blink and we'll be a Sunderland. Fingers crossed we get over the line. 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I’d had a few beers and I apologise for my insult. 
 

I know it’s an opinion but can you appreciate how wearing it is to come on here and read the negative comments and, in some cases, slights made against Moore whenever we don’t win a game? We got 85 points this season and did that after bedding in the new players for the first half of the season. Everybody screws up or does something that no one else understands from time to time - that’s what makes us human. Moore has flaws but I can live with them when I consider the successes we’ve had this season. Not many people have turned around a team so quickly to get the number of points we have this season. 
 

Some people should give more thought to what Moore has actually done. 

[OWLERTON GHOST]

I like Absolute 80's ....

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

3 minutes ago, OWLERTON GHOST said:

I like Absolute 80's ....

Beginners

[Tewkesbury]

23 minutes ago, shandypants said:

Yes, I’d had a few beers and I apologise for my insult. 
 

I know it’s an opinion but can you appreciate how wearing it is to come on here and read the negative comments and, in some cases, slights made against Moore whenever we don’t win a game? We got 85 points this season and did that after bedding in the new players for the first half of the season. Everybody screws up or does something that no one else understands from time to time - that’s what makes us human. Moore has flaws but I can live with them when I consider the successes we’ve had this season. Not many people have turned around a team so quickly to get the number of points we have this season. 
 

Some people should give more thought to what Moore has actually done. 

You have to ask yourself, do you want a discussion forum or an echo chamber?

 

If you think he's done great, give reasons why. Specific answers to the questions raised. Even if you don't know why he did something, but you have an idea, put it forward.

 

Advance the discussion.

 

You think he's done this badly, I disagree, and here's why.

 

That's all it takes.

[Jack of Clubs]

Only 3 teams out of 24 get promoted out of League One. Does that mean the other 21 managers are garbage? Of course it doesn’t. 
 

We got relegated last year and our morale was low. With no real money to spend in the summer we got a decent looking side together and finished 4th.

 

If we don’t win tonight I won’t be berating Moore as that would mean the teams finishing 5th and 6th getting to the final - ithe playoffs aren’t always fair.

 

I’d like to give him a shot being able to spend a little money and reshape the side and go again next season. Only then will I really judge him.

 

 

[Devonstrix]

6 minutes ago, El Toro said:

Only 3 teams out of 24 get promoted out of League One. Does that mean the other 21 managers are garbage? Of course it doesn’t. 
 

We got relegated last year and our morale was low. With no real money to spend in the summer we got a decent looking side together and finished 4th.

 

If we don’t win tonight I won’t be berating Moore as that would mean the teams finishing 5th and 6th getting to the final - ithe playoffs aren’t always fair.

 

I’d like to give him a shot being able to spend a little money and reshape the side and go again next season. Only then will I really judge him.

 

 

I should think virtually every other club in this league would like to have 'no real money to spend' like we did. We are probably paying far more in wages than anybody else which makes transfer fees irrelevant. All neutrals agree we have a great squad and it is justifiable when some say that Moore could and perhaps should have done better with the riches he had at his disposal. 
 

I certainly felt that our early season form was pretty rubbish, but credit where it's due, DM has done a good, not brilliant job ever since. The reason it’s not brilliant is our mystifyingly poor away form, although I know some feel it’s down to DM's over cautious approach. 
 

Anyway, I’m fully expecting us to win by at least two goals tonight and we will go on to beat Wycombe on a memorable day at Wembley. Tonight will be massive though. Can’t wait. 
 

 

[shandypants]

1 hour ago, Tewkesbury said:

You have to ask yourself, do you want a discussion forum or an echo chamber?

 

If you think he's done great, give reasons why. Specific answers to the questions raised. Even if you don't know why he did something, but you have an idea, put it forward.

 

Advance the discussion.

 

You think he's done this badly, I disagree, and here's why.

 

That's all it takes.

I absolutely don’t want an echo chamber; I want reasoned debate. 

[Tewkesbury]

21 minutes ago, shandypants said:

I absolutely don’t want an echo chamber; I want reasoned debate. 

Ok, here goes.

 

Moore should be sacked if we lose because he has built a one dimensional team that can't consistently beat pressing teams, and as this has been an issue all season, i think that we'll have the same problem next year if he stays.

 

If he gets us promoted he gets another year as he's found (albeit late) a solution to this tactical issue.

 

That's my view in a nutshell, nothing about resources or him as a bloke, just purely on his tactics and selections.

[shandypants]

18 minutes ago, Tewkesbury said:

Ok, here goes.

 

Moore should be sacked if we lose because he has built a one dimensional team that can't consistently beat pressing teams, and as this has been an issue all season, i think that we'll have the same problem next year if he stays.

 

If he gets us promoted he gets another year as he's found (albeit late) a solution to this tactical issue.

 

That's my view in a nutshell, nothing about resources or him as a bloke, just purely on his tactics and selections.

How is Moore’s team one-dimensional? 

[Tewkesbury]

Just now, shandypants said:

How is Moore’s team one-dimensional? 

We have no movement up front so easy to nullify. Everyone's close together so the fast counter is always on.

 

High press and man mark everyone to stop the pass, tight on Bannan, stop the ball to Gregory in the D or the byline cutback cross.

If you get the ball, hit it straight into the channels with a fast runner. There's a good chance you'll get through or get a free kick.

 

The only way we'll score are an individual goal or a set piece. 

 

That's it. Pretty much the only players we have who can change it up are NML and Windass.

[catdog1121]

If Moore wins the next two games it will shut up all the haters, if he doesn't then it will make them louder, especially if we have a slow start next year.

 

Surely comes with the territory..  I think he has done a decent job.