George Hirst

[Pieman]

3 minutes ago, Musttryharder said:

That may be true but, could Gregory hack it in the Champiuonship if we got promoted. 

As one of four fit strikers yes. He could play 25/30 championship level games and score regularly. If he were our only option and we depended on him week in week out, we and he will struggle.
 

Like Bannan, when he is fit and not playing his third game in a week, he has shown his fitness levels are exceptional. MKD, Wigan and Fleetwood away immediately spring to mind. Better than Berahino, MDL and Windass. 

[Pieman]

1 minute ago, Musttryharder said:

Surely if you think he may not turn out any better than Madine irrespective of how much he would cost, why buy him. Shouldnt we be setting our standards higher according to you and CourteenerOwls assessment of George Hirst. Personally I didnt like the way he left the club but there is room for quite a bit of development in the lad. Would I want him back at our club,I honestly cannot answer that.

I get your point and it makes absolute sense. A bit like my post on Gregory above, as part of a four man pool of fit strikers - yes. If we are betting on him and him alone to carry us to promotion Mitrovic style, then no.

[Guest Musttryharder]

2 minutes ago, Pieman said:

As one of four fit strikers yes. He could play 25/30 championship level games and score regularly. If he were our only option and we depended on him week in week out, we and he will struggle.
 

Like Bannan, when he is fit and not playing his third game in a week, he has shown his fitness levels are exceptional. MKD, Wigan and Fleetwood away immediately spring to mind. Better than Berahino, MDL and Windass. 

That may be the case, but I was referring to his quality rather than his fitness.

[Miffed]

1 hour ago, TheGreatNebber said:

Being a professional footballer (as opposed to having to do a regular job) and especially so for your own team is a dream for most fans of any club so I think it understandable that people don't quite see it the way the players do. Of course players may make decisions based purely on financial grounds and regret it later in their career if things don't work out or later in life when they turn a bit more sentimental. I think the jury is still out on Hirst Jr in terms of his career but this season does seem to have been a turning point and as long as he's not wasted it on fast cars and loose women I'm sure his bank balance is pretty healthy. 

 

Despite being no fan of MK Dons I do occasionally think about Dean Lewington who has been with them since they were formed and I think has played most of their games this season. He's an MK legend for what that's worth and whereas I'm sure he never turned down a dream move to Man U or Liverpool you do wonder if he regrets not playing for someone else at some point. 

Agreed, when become a professional most players have a different mindset… you become more of a player and look at your career above that of being a fan.

 

Ironically there are comparisons between Hirst and Gregory in this thread, which if he thought like a fan… then Gregory probably wouldn’t be playing for us.

[Pieman]

Just now, Musttryharder said:

That may be the case, but I was referring to his quality rather than his fitness.

I think he has the quality for another season in the Championship. Just for context (you may not read my posts regularly ), I subscribe to football being a team game and now a squad game. I am not a fan of stock piling individually capable players who cannot gel as part of a team. Of course individual talent comes into play, the higher you move up the pyramid. But Ferguson and Clough showed us all, it’s about putting a team formula together and that is where I think Gregory offers a lot. So, I chose team players above players who seem great on paper, but turn out to be prima donnas who kill your club. We’ve just done that for a few years and look where we have got. 

[marshy]

The 2 issues here are far as I can see it. 
 

Would we be even interested. Is DC likely to want to do any sort of deal where he might well feel dishonoured from previously?

 

Is George in the slightest interested in any sort of move back here, especially given how he feels he was treated?

 

 

[Pieman]

1 minute ago, marshy said:

The 2 issues here are far as I can see it. 
 

Would we be even interested. Is DC likely to want to do any sort of deal where he might well feel dishonoured from previously?

 

Is George in the slightest interested in any sort of move back here, especially given how he feels he was treated?

 

 

The reality is no and no.

[@owlstalk]

2 minutes ago, marshy said:

The 2 issues here are far as I can see it. 
 

Would we be even interested. Is DC likely to want to do any sort of deal where he might well feel dishonoured from previously?

 

Is George in the slightest interested in any sort of move back here, especially given how he feels he was treated?

 

 

 

Nothing would happen whilst DC is chairman here

[Tewkesbury]

7 minutes ago, Pieman said:

I think he has the quality for another season in the Championship. Just for context (you may not read my posts regularly ), I subscribe to football being a team game and now a squad game. I am not a fan of stock piling individually capable players who cannot gel as part of a team. Of course individual talent comes into play, the higher you move up the pyramid. But Ferguson and Clough showed us all, it’s about putting a team formula together and that is where I think Gregory offers a lot. So, I chose team players above players who seem great on paper, but turn out to be prima donnas who kill your club. We’ve just done that for a few years and look where we have got. 

See, we have a differing opinion about this.

If we go up and have him as anything other than a sub, we're coming straight back down.

 

He can't hack the fitness levels of this league week in week out, how is he going to cope a division up and a year older?

[Guest Willow Owl]

3 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

Absolutely nobody is doing or has done that

All people are doing is discussing George Hirst

 

There's 3000 pages of topics in this section
There's over 4.5 million posts for you if you don't like ones about Hirst

 

It's easy to avoid George Hirst threads - just ignore the threads with George Hirst in the title

 

 

You seriously need to read back regarding Gregory, that’s the main reason I posted.
People bigging up a 23 year old who for half a season was kept out by John Marquis until he left for Lincoln. Plus this is Sheffield Wednesday Matchday and apart from twice this season why is George Hirst mentioned numerous times on a match day section. 
Do we have numerous threads about Scott Twine at MK Dons, Now there’s a talent?

I like to browse all threads, but when there’s more pages on this than Bannan, Finishing fourth, play offs, etc. then something needs saying. 
I’ve nothing against the lad but FFS it’s boring, he’s not ours and hasn’t been for 4 years. Move on
 

 

 

[Tewkesbury]

10 minutes ago, Willow Owl said:

You seriously need to read back regarding Gregory, that’s the main reason I posted.
People bigging up a 23 year old who for half a season was kept out by John Marquis until he left for Lincoln. Plus this is Sheffield Wednesday Matchday and apart from twice this season why is George Hirst mentioned numerous times on a match day section. 
Do we have numerous threads about Scott Twine at MK Dons, Now there’s a talent?

I like to browse all threads, but when there’s more pages on this than Bannan, Finishing fourth, play offs, etc. then something needs saying. 
I’ve nothing against the lad but FFS it’s boring, he’s not ours and hasn’t been for 4 years. Move on
 

 

 

Comparisons were made,

Opinions stated as fact,

It's all subjective.

[Guest Willow Owl]

13 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here are your contributions over the last 24 hours

100% of your posts have been in a George Hirst thread, about George Hirst.

 

 

This is a discussion forum about all things SWFC past and present including all former players, managers etc

There's 3000 pages of topics in this section alone for you to read

There's over 4.5 million posts for you if you don't like ones about Hirst then it's easy to read to and reply to those.

 

It's easy to avoid George Hirst threads - just ignore the threads with George Hirst in the title
 

Since when would you class George Hirst as an ex player? He never played a league game for us. Do we have numerous threads about every academy player that we have let go without a league game ?

Why should I ignore them? I’m Entitled to my opinion like everyone else is and In my opinion it’s over the top.

 

[ANDY]

4 minutes ago, Willow Owl said:

Since when would you class George Hirst as an ex player? He never played a league game for us. Do we have numerous threads about every academy player that we have let go without a league game ?

Why should I ignore them? I’m Entitled to my opinion like everyone else is and In my opinion it’s over the top.

 

 

I always thought he’d played a league game for us albeit a sub appearance. 

[@owlstalk]

2 hours ago, Willow Owl said:

Since when would you class George Hirst as an ex player? He never played a league game for us.  

After coming through the academy, Hirst signed his first professional contract for Sheffield Wednesday in March 2016.[

 

He made his first team debut against Cambridge United on 9 August 2016, in the EFL Cup in a 2–1 defeat.

 

His league debut came on 10 December 2016 against Reading in a 2–1 defeat.

 

 

[onlyonedavidhirst]

3 hours ago, Tewkesbury said:

See, we have a differing opinion about this.

If we go up and have him as anything other than a sub, we're coming straight back down.

 

He can't hack the fitness levels of this league week in week out, how is he going to cope a division up and a year older?

I know you don't rate him.as highly as other fans and advocate him coming on after 60 mins. A few things for you to ponder at least. Firstly, his game isn't based on pace, he's a clever striker so may have some added longevity due to that. Secondly, his best form has been the last 2 months, look at his stats for that period alone and I'd guess he'd be on more PPG than Kamberi, which using the same arguments suggest he's learnt to be more effective and should now start games. I remember a time when Billy Sharp seemed incapable of being a decent Championship striker and his career seemed to be going downhill, he found an extra yard and more goals etc going back to the Lane for a 3rd spell. Gregory could be similar in that he seems to have really settled and is loving every minute as well as being back in Sheffield.

I totally agree with you that I wouldn't want him as our number 1 striker, we need to recruit if we go up, but I don't think it's fair to just write him.off as being unable to be a regular starter just yet.

[ANDY]

“But I don’t want guitar lessons”

 

 

 

 

 

*if you know, you know 

[@owlstalk]

1 minute ago, ANDY said:

“But I don’t want guitar lessons”

 

 

 

 

 

*if you know, you know 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tewkesbury]

10 minutes ago, onlyonedavidhirst said:

I know you don't rate him.as highly as other fans and advocate him coming on after 60 mins. A few things for you to ponder at least. Firstly, his game isn't based on pace, he's a clever striker so may have some added longevity due to that. Secondly, his best form has been the last 2 months, look at his stats for that period alone and I'd guess he'd be on more PPG than Kamberi, which using the same arguments suggest he's learnt to be more effective and should now start games. I remember a time when Billy Sharp seemed incapable of being a decent Championship striker and his career seemed to be going downhill, he found an extra yard and more goals etc going back to the Lane for a 3rd spell. Gregory could be similar in that he seems to have really settled and is loving every minute as well as being back in Sheffield.

I totally agree with you that I wouldn't want him as our number 1 striker, we need to recruit if we go up, but I don't think it's fair to just write him.off as being unable to be a regular starter just yet.

His goalscoring was never the issue. It was always about the fact that we've built our tactics to suit his game, which I think was a mistake. I'm not going to elaborate, I've gone into it plenty before.

 

It was always about the off ball stuff, the pressing and workrate. I know some think he's the hardest worker ever, but he can't keep up the sustained pressing over 90 minutes that has produced our best results.

I think we lose more by playing him than we gain, physically and tactically.

 

I got bored last week, and looked at our results with him as a sub, starting and absent. The differences are up there with our home/away form.

 

We don't score any more when he plays than when he doesn't, but we concede twice as many.

 

Here's the stats for our season as a whole, then divided into when he played, when he was a sub and when he was out completely.

 

[onlyonedavidhirst]

2 hours ago, Tewkesbury said:

His goalscoring was never the issue. It was always about the fact that we've built our tactics to suit his game, which I think was a mistake. I'm not going to elaborate, I've gone into it plenty before.

 

It was always about the off ball stuff, the pressing and workrate. I know some think he's the hardest worker ever, but he can't keep up the sustained pressing over 90 minutes that has produced our best results.

I think we lose more by playing him than we gain, physically and tactically.

 

I got bored last week, and looked at our results with him as a sub, starting and absent. The differences are up there with our home/away form.

 

We don't score any more when he plays than when he doesn't, but we concede twice as many.

 

Here's the stats for our season as a whole, then divided into when he played, when he was a sub and when he was out completely.

 

I'm not sure you've read my whole reply as I wasnt referencing his goalscoring. If you take the last 10 games Gregory has started we've averaged 2.3 points per game, thats as good as any period all season and if you make a slight assumption that he's grown into the role, got fitter and is now established in the team, evidence that we don't lose any more with him playing (we lost 1 of the 10 - Wycombe) and it's our best period for goals scored so we have scored more. We've also conceded slightly more than our best period, but I don't think that suggests in any way that we are better off starting without him. 2.3 points per game would cruise the league. I also don't necessarily subscribe to the view we've built our tactics to support him, I think they've happened more due to what DM realised was and wasn't working, including things like realising BB is better as a midfielder with 2 sitting behind him and that JH and MJ are both best employed as wing backs. When DM stopped playing the 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 type formation it wasn't because of Gregory, there were several factors involved.

[PTLiam]

15 hours ago, Musttryharder said:

That may be true but, could Gregory hack it in the Champiuonship if we got promoted. 

 He's scored goals there before. Were you born this week?